Lure of the Month / bi-week, bi-weekly curious - Part Deaux

[JohnR]

Lets have a suggestion for a new lure to discuss and perhaps a volunteer to kick off the discussion.

Being that it is colder than a witches, uhm, elbow (Clammer, no clarification needed) outside, how about something warm and spring like.

[zimmy]

Anything interesting enough to say about cowboys or conrads? Not sure if either of these would be worth talking about...I have limited experience fishing with them and even less experience catching with them.

[chefchris401]

All the more to have a discussion on them.

Conrads are under rated and under used around here, pretty well used plug in jersey.

A lot of guys use them for jetty fishing or from the breachways. Excellent plug in my findings for fast current, strong rips.
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[numbskull]

I've got some strong opinions about this plug, since I feel (rightly or wrongly) that I was at the front of their revival. And a revival is what we are talking about, since very few guys have and fish the originals.
In that, there is a problem, since all sorts of copies now exist (a situation that parallels "danny plugs") and many of those copies use the shape and lip but miss the subtleties that make the plug do its thing.
Further complicating matters, even the originals varied greatly (by as much as an ounce), and furthermore guys changed hook options to change weighting more. The end result is that there is a ton of variability in these plugs.

So there are 3 sizes, a peanut, a Jr (2.5-3oz) and a Sr (3.5-4 oz).
A good one will float level with the high point of its back just barely out of the water.
It will have a lip mounted above midline and its line tie will be just below midline (this helps get the plug deep and stable). Sometimes guys upsized the front hook on the JR model....supposedly to get it deeper. I find the Jr the most useful size. I've not fished a peanut.

I disagree that these plugs are good fast water plugs. Quite the contrary in my experience. They struggle in the canal. They have too big a wobble at speed and pull to the top. Rather, these plugs are superb deep running plugs at SLOW speeds. They will get down to 8-10 feet, then stay moving level as you slow them slightly. They tend to suspend when you pause them and most hits come when they are stopped. They do well in outflows (I suspect since my experience here is limited) because you can swim them backwards yet still hold some depth on the way out, then crawl them along the seam slow coming back in once they pop out of the flow.

They really excel fishing off jetties since, like eels, they get down and stay down where fish hunt. Another nice feature is that their low slung lip and slow level swimming motion means that if you pay attention you can bump bottom, hesitate a moment, and rise over obstructions without hanging up. You need some height (like a jetty or big rock) to fish them, however, or else you spent 3/4 of your time trying to get them back through the final 2-5 feet deep water.

By day/boat I've not done very well. Fish seem to follow them without hitting, and I've had some spectacular bass ghost up to the transom then sink away. I think this is a problem with plugs in general by day. Something deep and slow a big bass knows is not getting away from her, so she takes her time to examine it. Surface stuff is harder for the fish to investigate so if it looks helpless they'll strike.

Something else worth adding. Conrads are not the only game in town to get deep. The Musso maple and Musso Pine swim at similar depths (although maybe not as slowly). The Musso slope head is the best FAST water diving design I've found so far.

[WoodyCT]

I've seen them in all manner of woods, but isn't maple what the originator used, seeing that it is dense and will give the plug the depth it is designed for?

[numbskull]

A Sr and a Jr.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by WoodyCT

I've seen them in all manner of woods, but isn't maple what the originator used, seeing that it is dense and will give the plug the depth it is designed for?

No. They were pine, but all different sorts of pine and all kinds of weights. The wood type doesn't matter as long as the plug is weighted correctly to float the way I described, and the correct lip mounted at the correct height is used. The depth any weighted plug achieves comes more from the lip geometry and line tie position than from what wood is used.

[ProfessorM]

G pretty much covered it. I will agree with George that they don't seem to be the best plug for the strong current areas like the canal. They seem to have too wild of an action in that strong current and I personally don't like that wild action, probably why I don't like wooden jointed plugs maybe, but there are plenty of spots in the canal where the current is not maxed out that the Jr. is very good at and adding an eel skin is even better and will also keep it from getting hung up when in real close as it won't go down as deep with the skin on. That is one problem you will find fishing them in the canal, trying to get them back to shore. You have to go real slow last 15' or it will drag the bottom, but you learn how to do it. The peanut is another very good smaller version that I made last year. I just turned up a bunch of those this week and look forward to fishing them this spring. The Conrad's have become a plug that I have become addicted to making the last few years.

[Back Beach]

I find the Jr size ones bite better than the Sr, especially in current.

I made a bunch of Sr. sized ones and thought they sucked until I listened to Numby's explanation on how to use them. They're not diving plugs, they're "descending" plugs that need some patience to work properly. A long cast or free spooling in current helps attain the maximum depth as the further away from you they get, the deeper you can get them to descend.

[chefchris401]

I had great luck with the hybrid style I made this year, I mostly used them off the breachways or pond outflows I fish.

Like stated above a great "descending" plug.

I tried them in the canal and was disappointed with how they swam in FAST heavy current.

A few areas I fish these plugs produce greatly on the outgoing tide.

I've never fished an original, only copies and ones I made myself.

Numbskull do you have any build spec sheets on the sr or jr? Would love to build some the real old school way.
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[Swimmer]

How does the conrad lip make such a difference as opposed to a lip used on a danny? Is it a deep diver because the of the turned up edges?

Oh, and could Numbskull be kind enough to put up for viewing his schem's of the plug with out actually putting all the info up. Like you did with the Lido?

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

How does the conrad lip make such a difference as opposed to a lip used on a danny? Is it a deep diver because the of the turned up edges?

Oh, and could Numbskull be kind enough to put up for viewing his schem's of the plug with out actually putting all the info up. Like you did with the Lido?

All this stuff is available in the plug forum, including xrays of the plugs and pictures of the lips. I'm pretty sure there are dimensions posted as well, if not Paul would have them (I just measure as i go).

The turned up edges just narrow a lip to produce less roll.
The Conrad lip works because there is a high line slot, and a long distance between the line tie and bottom portion of the lip that serves to tilt the plug forward and down. The weight of the plug has less to do with it, but obviously the less buoyancy the lip has to overcome the better (until you get into shallow water at which point you need some buoyancy to get it back up and in).

[numbskull]

So does anybody else have experience fishing these things in breachways? Are you fishing the inside curve or outside (uptide) side?
You drifting them or casting and swinging across?

How about trolling? Anybody dragged one on wire? Maybe with a skin?

[ProfessorM]

trolling is something I have been saying I am going to do but never got around to it. T&W always is too productive to make me find the time to try it. Like G. said all that stuff is in the search. If it can't be found just give me a heads up I will post all that info stuff on the plugbuilding forum as I don't think most on this forum are interested in the specs like we are.

[numbskull]

Trolling is an art, all in itself. It is strange how dragging plugs has fallen out of favor (probably because it is so hard to present them well). It is worth keeping in mind, however, that two of the very largest striped bass ever caught (Cinto's #73 and that @ #75 fish in Md last year) hit trolled plugs.

Maybe Eskimo can chime in, he does well dragging big plugs.

[numbskull]

Here is a conrad jr in action

[WoodyCT]

Is the golden your gaff man G.?
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[Sea Dangles]

I will be putting in some hours next June learning how to catch fish on wire with plugs.Maybe I can get my trolling mentor to join me for a few nights at the pigs. I'm not sure lead would be as effective.

[MAKAI]

Trolling magnums down 35 ft makes me happy.
Simple fishing, 65# braid, 10 ft 60# flouro, enjoy.

[eskimo]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Trolling is an art, all in itself. It is strange how dragging plugs has fallen out of favor (probably because it is so hard to present them well). It is worth keeping in mind, however, that two of the very largest striped bass ever caught (Cinto's #73 and that @ #75 fish in Md last year) hit trolled plugs.

Maybe Eskimo can chime in, he does well dragging big plugs.

As much fun as it is, its not hard to believe trolling swimming plugs has fallen out of favor. Far from being a part of the elite group of guys who troll plugs I've spent some time doing it. The few times I use the boat is exclusively to swim plugs for a night tide.

Speed itself probably took away a lot of the hype from trolling swimming plugs. If your trolling plugs in a rip and going as slow as you need to be you almost have no control over the boat. This is where a tiller shines. You can just put the plug along side of the boat before shooting and see that the boat is moving way to fast.

I've had friends say that they only did well going up tide yet nothing going down tide and although there are nights that seem that way its the fact that they were going slower against the tide.

This paired with knowing how deep the plug is and what it's doing will make a lot of people think that it's not as effective as a jig, tree, tube etc.

[ProfessorM]

after talking to C. Cinto about his catch and how he was fishing the plug. He told me the plug was let back into the rip and the boat was kept up tide of the rip in gear but not moving very much except side to side and the plug just stayed in the rip and worked looking like it was struggling against the tide. Only when the tide died out did they go up on the rip and troll around through it and along it.

I thought her name was Fifa???

BTW I put the Conrad info in the plug building forum for anyone that has interest. Get a life

[Pete F.]

Tube n Worm or jigs don't typically get tangled together like a metal lip will. Sometimes plugs will pull a little right or left. Does'nt make much difference casting but put two plugs 120 feet behind a boat and the line starts out 10 feet apart, sometimes things happen.

[Clogston29]

I've done well with Conrads in current, but not strong currents. NS makes a really good one, I'm lucky enough to have one of his seniors. In the medium size, I like beachmasters a lot. I have a medium pm that I need to get a skin on next year. Slow and low with pauses seams to work best.
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