Thoughts On Don't Ask Don't Tell?

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I think Americans with all sorts of physical and mental disabilities will be thrilled to hear that......sign em' up!

Bad example.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[mosholu]

Israel has had gays serving openly since 1993 and they have not had a problem with it. I give that a lot of weight because they are in a situation where fighting is a real possibility and you serve in the military/reserves for a number of years. Maybe our country is has a more homophobic bias and as a result there will be some changes the military will have to do regarding training etc. to root out any stigma relating to the gays that are serving.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by mosholu

Israel has had gays serving openly since 1993 and they have not had a problem with it. I give that a lot of weight because they are in a situation where fighting is a real possibility and you serve in the military/reserves for a number of years. Maybe our country is has a more homophobic bias and as a result there will be some changes the military will have to do regarding training etc. to root out any stigma relating to the gays that are serving.

Come on, if it weren't for the US, any Isreali military (gay or straight) would not be able to fight in our current world. Bad example in my opinion

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Come on, if it weren't for the US, any Isreali military (gay or straight) would not be able to fight in our current world. Bad example in my opinion

Piscator: I do not see the relevance between the fact that the US supports/gives aid to Israel and whether gays in their military has been a problem for them. Israel has no margin for error in its defense forces. If this was an issue that impacted effectiveness of their combat forces they would have dealt with it without regard to any PC concerns. That is why I think their experience might be worth looking at.
Israel has a draft system covering both men and women. After an initial two or three year stint you stay in the reserves with a yearly period of active service for a number of years after your initial commitment is completed. Israel has no margin for error in its defense forces.

[spence]

Originally Posted by mosholu

Piscator: I do not see the relevance between the fact that the US supports/gives aid to Israel and whether gays in their military has been a problem for them.

Because there isn't any.

Israel has no margin for error in its defense forces. If this was an issue that impacted effectiveness of their combat forces they would have dealt with it without regard to any PC concerns. That is why I think their experience might be worth looking at.

I'd agree. Aside from the US Marines Corps, I'm not sure any fighting unit can come as close to the close quarters counter-insurgency experience as the IDF.

Israel has a draft system covering both men and women. After an initial two or three year stint you stay in the reserves with a yearly period of active service for a number of years after your initial commitment is completed. Israel has no margin for error in its defense forces.

Perhaps this is a motivator. It would be hard to make service mandatory, then exclude some because of their sexual orientation.

You might have a lot of Corporal Klingers

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Bad example.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

not really...if your contention is

"we can't make selective policy when talking about the rights of Americans to serve."

the Armed Forces should be made to accomodate All Americans who would like to serve lest they be guilty of some sort of descrimination or lack of tolerance and compassion....

after all..." While immediate disruption is a valid concern, keeping the armed forces in alignment with the public is important as well."

what's a little "disruption" in the name of diversity and making the military better reflect all of our society....?

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

not really...if your contention is

"we can't make selective policy when talking about the rights of Americans to serve."

the Armed Forces should be made to accomodate All Americans who would like to serve lest they be guilty of some sort of descrimination or lack of tolerance and compassion....

after all..." While immediate disruption is a valid concern, keeping the armed forces in alignment with the public is important as well."

what's a little "disruption" in the name of diversity and making the military better reflect all of our society....?

Apples and oranges. There are basic standards deemed necessary to for various roles to support expected mission demands. While some may argue exactly what those standards should be, once set, it's pretty clear cut if a mental or physical standard can't be met.

You're just trying to stir the pot with a counterproductive spoon. Yet again.

-spence