Why can't teachers/cops live with 401(k)'s instead of pensions?

[fishbones]

Most people don't go into teaching for the pension. They go into it for the summer vacation. Seriously, I think most teachers go into it because they really want to help children learn. In order to be in that profession, they have to join the union. Once they're in, they are pretty much committed to whatever the union wants to do. I can't really fault them, but I agree about the pension being an outdated for of a retirement plan.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Most people don't go into teaching for the pension. They go into it for the summer vacation. Seriously, I think most teachers go into it because they really want to help children learn. In order to be in that profession, they have to join the union. Once they're in, they are pretty much committed to whatever the union wants to do. I can't really fault them, but I agree about the pension being an outdated for of a retirement plan.

I completely agree with you with regards to why people get into teaching. All of the younger teachers I know are some of the most motivated individuals. After a decade or two of dealing with everyone else's problem kids and realizing that all you have to do is the minimum work expected from you as long as you are not diddling the children, the more veteran teachers stop caring - again, there are exceptions to the rule.

The luxuries of seniority-based power - dead weight be filtered out and teachers that perform above and beyond are not rewarded - gold ribbons and stars outside the Main Office don't count. It is amazing how impossible it is to get rid of bad teachers if they have been teaching for 10-15 years.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

perform above and beyond are not rewarded

Yup, that's a Union for you. All I've seen them do is save the poor underperformers who should be fired anyway and do nothing for the ones that outperform.
Actually, in labor Unions they make it hard on the “over performers” so that they aren’t too productive. They don’t want someone too over productive to the point that they put a fellow “brother” out of work

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I completely agree with you with regards to why people get into teaching. All of the younger teachers I know are some of the most motivated individuals. After a decade or two of dealing with everyone else's problem kids and realizing that all you have to do is the minimum work expected from you as long as you are not diddling the children, the more veteran teachers stop caring - again, there are exceptions to the rule.

JD, I don't think they stop caring, but depending on where they teach,
they get tired of wiping kids noses, trying to motivate unmotivated students
and doing the disciplining that the parents should be doing.
Throw in uncooperative parents who don't take an interest in their kids, or the opposite where the parents think their kids are right and the teachers wrong and they get

Being a good teacher requires cooperation from the home.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Seriously, I think most teachers go into it because they really want to help children learn. In order to be in that profession, they have to join the union. Once they're in, they are pretty much committed to whatever the union wants to do. I can't really fault them, but I agree about the pension being an outdated for of a retirement plan.

Pensions are outdated for sure.
There are no sure guarantees that the money will be there even with the PBGC protecting them.
When they're out of money they're out of money.

The way to make the switch over to a 401K fair, would to grandfather the workers
who were hired with a promised pension receive the pension but offer a 401 k for them
going forward. New hires would only have a 401 k pension plan.