Why can't teachers/cops live with 401(k)'s instead of pensions?

[zimmy]

Jim,
I am a science teacher in CT. I would never in a million years complain about my salary or benefits, but they are certainly not why I teach. I love teaching. However, just for #^&#^&#^&#^&zandgiggles.... Average household income in the town I teach in according to most recent census data is $167,642. Median house price is 634,000. I have 11 years experience, a state mandated master's degree (for certification) and am working on a second masters. Both are science based. Out of curiosity, what you think would be a fair wage? Also consider that I started in biotech for a private firm and would be earning in the 100,000-115,000 if I had stayed in that position as a research and development scientist to this day.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jim,
I am a science teacher in CT. I would never in a million years complain about my salary or benefits, but they are certainly not why I teach. I love teaching. However, just for #^&#^&#^&#^&zandgiggles.... Average household income in the town I teach in according to most recent census data is $167,642. Median house price is 634,000. I have 11 years experience, a state mandated master's degree (for certification) and am working on a second masters. Both are science based. Out of curiosity, what you think would be a fair wage? Also consider that I started in biotech for a private firm and would be earning in the 100,000-115,000 if I had stayed in that position as a research and development scientist to this day.

I can't wait to see the answer to this one...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jim,
I am a science teacher in CT. I would never in a million years complain about my salary or benefits, but they are certainly not why I teach. I love teaching. However, just for #^&#^&#^&#^&zandgiggles.... Average household income in the town I teach in according to most recent census data is $167,642. Median house price is 634,000. I have 11 years experience, a state mandated master's degree (for certification) and am working on a second masters. Both are science based. Out of curiosity, what you think would be a fair wage? Also consider that I started in biotech for a private firm and would be earning in the 100,000-115,000 if I had stayed in that position as a research and development scientist to this day.

Hi Zimmy.

"I would never in a million years complain about my salary or benefits"

That's pretty honest, I respect that...

"are certainly not why I teach. I love teaching."

I live in Southington, and I have been a parft of the last 2 union contracts. Both times, the teachers tjhreatened to quit en masse if we cut their compensation. That tells me that in my town, teachers are pretty motivated by money, rather than by a calling to teach. I hear that a lot, teachers threatening to leave for the private sector. Just my observation. They all say they're in it for the kids, until we ask them to share the pain...

"Out of curiosity, what you think would be a fair wage?"

First, let's talk about total compensation, not salary, because benefits are where unions get crazy. I don't know where you teach, somewhere in Fairfield County I guess. The average household income in CT is about $68,000, the average home price is around $275,000. In my opinion, public servants total compensation (salary plus benefits) should be just below the average of the citizens they claim to serve. I say just below because public servants are spared the significant stress of those in the private sector, the stress of being under presure to create wealth.

Zimmy, if you earned $100k in the private sector, yuo would work hundreds more hours each year than you do now. You would not have a guaranteed pension. You would pay twice as much for your healthcare as you do now. You would pay into social security, which is a ripoff. No week off at Xmas, February, April, no 7 weeks off in the summer. And finally, no guarantee that as long as you are breathing, your job is still there.

I believe I answered your question directly. Can I askyou a question Zimmy? As you know, here in CT, we have about the highest tax rates in the nation. Yet here in CT, the unfunded obligations for retirement and healthcare benefits is exactly $10,000 per citizen (recently reported in the Courant). That's $50,000 for my family of 5.

So here is my question...if my taxes are already just about the highest in the nation, and my family STILL owes another $50,000 to pay for union compensation, doesn't that PROVE that the spending is insane?

You asked me what's a fair wage, and I answered. Let me ask you, what tax level do you think is fair, to burden my family with? I pay 5% income tax, 6% sales tax, $8,000 propetry tax, and my family still owes your unions another $50k that I simply don't have. Is it fair that I get a seciond job so you and your ilk can cling to insane, antiquated benefits?

You thought you asked me a "gotcha" question. Please answer mine. How many of my bi-weekly paychecks do you think you're entitled to, so that you can have a guaranteed pension, and healthcare that's better than mine? How much of my kids' college fund should they have to sign over to the teachers union, because somehow you guys haven't realized that pensions simply don't work?

If you are a man of science, like me, you should know that you simply cannot spend what you don't have. In the near future, some muncipalities are going to start bouncing checks. The math is what it is. We need to start facing reality, and stop kicking the can down the road.

[Jim in CT]

In my town, teachers max out at about $80k I think. So a married couple who both teach are earning $160,000, with benefits that dwarf anything that are available in the private sector. So those teachers have a private-secor equivalent of probably somewhere around $190k. And they work hundreds fewer hours per year, no matter what teachers say...they just do not work 2,000 hours a year, no way.

To me, that is insane. Not only does it "feel" crazy, the debt that states and towns are facing prove it.

You can't spend what you don't have. Business leaders get that. Heads of households get that. Only unionized public employees are immune to that law, and I don't understand why.

[scottw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Jim,
I am a science teacher in CT. for #^&#^&#^&#^&zandgiggles.... Average household income in the town I teach in according to most recent census data is $167,642. Median house price is 634,000. I have 11 years experience, a state mandated master's degree (for certification) and am working on a second masters. Out of curiosity, what you think would be a fair wage? Also consider that I started in biotech for a private firm and would be earning in the 100,000-115,000 if I had stayed in that position as a research and development scientist to this day.



should he base it on a normal work year or a 180 day work year? just want to clarify?



for #^&#^&#^&#^&zandgiggles...actuarialize this one too JIM, if you would...

Jim, I'm a gardener/landscaper(because I like it)...I have a degree in botany/plant genetics and I'm working on one in astrophysics at my own expense during the slow months, the median income in my area is $300,000 and the average home is 1.2 million...I work about half of the year but when I started at a bioengineering firm out of college I was making over a hundred grand plus a full benefits package....what do you think my fair wage should be ?


I wonder what the reaction will be when the payment transfers aren't made one Friday or the paycheck bounces....I heard someone say recently that these cities and towns are finally having to face the reality of what it actually costs to run their governments, the state subsidies are reduced and drying up, the feds aren't/can't subsidize the states, it all about trying to keep a sinking ship of ponzi schemes afloat and it is just too far underwater.....and not enough hands to bail, they're still dancing to the music on the deck

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

Quote:


for #^&#^&#^&#^&zandgiggles...actuarialize this one too JIM, if you would...

What he thinks you should make is irrelevant. What he thinks I as a teacher should make is relevant since he funds teachers. I wasn't asking to be a dck. I was asking because I am curious what he thinks.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

What he thinks you should make is irrelevant. What he thinks I as a teacher should make is relevant since he funds teachers. I wasn't asking to be a dck. I was asking because I am curious what he thinks.

why is the income of others, the value of other's homes, how much others make in the private sector working ALL year doing a completely different job.. at all relevant to what Jim might think you should be paid as a teacher?

why not just ask him how much a science teacher should make?


US debt passes $14 trillion, Congress weighs caps

WASHINGTON – The United States just passed a dubious milestone: Government debt surged to an all-time high, more than $14 trillion.

That means Congress soon will have to lift the legal debt limit to give the nearly maxed-out government an even higher credit limit or dramatically cut spending to stay within the current cap. Either way, a fight is ahead on Capitol Hill, inflamed by the passions of tea party activists and deficit hawks.

Today's debt level represents a $45,300 tab for each and everyone in the country.

maybe better to compare it to what other science teachers are making
Average Teacher Salary in Connecticut....Connecticut teacher salaries are some of the highest average salaries in the nation, with a 2009 figure of $64,773. This salary increased 3.9 percent over the 2008 teaching salary in Connecticut of $62,345. The 2008 teaching salary is 2.3 percent higher than the 2007 average salary of $60,943.

Teaching salaries in Connecticut are higher than the national average salary of $49,720 in 2009, and the 2008 salary of $48,353. The percentage increase in Connecticut teacher salaries from 2008 to 2009 was higher than the national average increase of 2.8 percent.

Teacher salaries in Connecticut ranked 4th in the nation in 2009, a slight drop from their standing the previous two years. The average teacher salary in Connecticut ranked 3rd in both 2007 and 2008. Connecticut teacher salaries averaged a 6.2 percent increase overall for the 2007 through 2009 period.

The average teacher salaries in Connecticut have been increasing steadily though the 2007-2009 period. The following Connecticut teacher salary schedule summarizes this information:

Average Salary Percent Change
Rank 2009 Rank 2008 Rank 2007 2008 to 2009 2007 to 2008 2007 to 2009
Connecticut 4 $64,773.33 3 $62,345.00 3 $60,943.33 3.89% 2.30% 6.28%

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

why is the income of others, the value of other's homes, how much others make in the private sector working ALL year doing a completely different job.. at all relevant to what Jim might think you should be paid as a teacher?

why not just ask him how much a science teacher should make?

The reason the potential income info is relevant because it affects whether someone goes into teaching. The housing info is relevant because it relates to the tax base and the cost of living in that town. What a science teacher makes in fairfield county is going to be different than what they make in rural carolinas where the median house price is $110,000, not 600,000. I work 186 days, so if you want to say the average professional works 245 (3 weeks vacation), that is reasonable. So yes, 76% of the standard work year is reasonable. I don't know anyone who works ALL year.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

The reason the potential income info is relevant because it affects whether someone goes into teaching. I don't know anyone who works ALL year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Jim,
I am a science teacher in CT. I would never in a million years complain about my salary or benefits, but they are certainly not why I teach. I love teaching.


huh???

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy
Jim,
I am a science teacher in CT. I would never in a million years complain about my salary or benefits, but they are certainly not why I teach. I love teaching.


huh???

Let me make it simple for you scott... If I can make 110000+ in biotech and teaching pays 30,000, I can't justify teaching. I think my salary is in line with what it should be. My district the union also agreed to a pay freeze. It will cost me 3,000 per year for the rest of my career. We pay a fair percent of our benefits. I don't know too many teachers asking for more more more.