More on public unions - New Haven police

[Jim in CT]

Fly Rod -

"I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007"

So when the real estate market imploded in 1991-1993, didn't you have to react somehow? I know many real estate folks had to tighten their belts then, in response to a brutal market. That's what businesses do.

But the unions don't want to hear it. Even though the economy is bad, even though tax revenues are down, even though many are unemployed, they still want to get paid as if it were the roaring 1920's.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Fly Rod -
But the unions don't want to hear it. Even though the economy is bad, even though tax revenues are down, even though many are unemployed, they still want to get paid as if it were the roaring 1920's.

Because that is the nature of the beast. In a bad economy thier jobs become much more dangerous. Crime goes up, the persons you interact with are far more violent, desperate, and so on, the number of calls for serviceincrease exponentially. I always said policing was a growth industry. So why when officers, or firefighters are at thier busiest are they suppose to consider cutting thier pay? Cut thier pay but noth thier responsibilties, not. You wouldn't, and its BS about I have to find someone willing to absord my request for more money. City councilors negotiate new contracts all the time and the town meeting votes them up or down. I don't like paying taxes, no one does. I do not take it as an assault on the quality of my life. The town I live in just held a debt exclusion election to see if the TAXPAYERS will build a new school and a new senior center. They overwhelmingly voted in favor of both projects. Need the school but not the senior center.

I know one thing, you get more from a cop or a firefighter than an insurance company. Cops do not raise thier rates if you deal with them more often.
You are beating to death this issue and surpisingly enough not meeting with many others who suffer the same angst. Like Jesse Jackson turned racism into a self-supporting industry you are trying to do the same witth this.

One thing you haven't mentioned is that all of these people you're complaining about pay a whole lot of taxes as well. And from what you say about public employees in Ct., especially the cops, I reference that scoundrel brother-in-law of yours, from Meridian I think, pays more taxes than you.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

Because that is the nature of the beats. In a bad economy thiers jobs become much more dangerous. Crime goes up, the persons you interact with are more violent, and so on. I always said policing was a growth industry. So why when officers, or firefighters are at thier busiest are they suppose to consider cutting thier pay? I don't like paying taxes, no one does. I do not take it as an assault on the quality of my life. The town just held a debt exclusion election to see if the TAXPAYERS will build a new school and a new senior center. They overwhelmingly voted in favor of both projects.

You are beating to death this issue and surpisingly enough not meeting with many others who suffer the same angst. Like Jesse Jackson turned racism into a self-supporting industry you are trying to do the same witth this.

One thing you haven't mentioned is that all of these people you're complaining about pay a whole lot of taxes as well. And from what you say about public employees in Ct., especially the cops, I reference that scoundrel brother-in-law of yours, from Meridian I think, pays more taxes than you.

"I don't like paying taxes, no one does. I do not take it as an assault on the quality of my life. "

If my taxes are taken so that teachers can avoid eating cat food, then I have no problem paying them. If my taxes are increased so that teachers/cops can cling to ridiculoues benefits, that's something else. And that's what is happening.

"One thing you haven't mentioned is that all of these people you're complaining about pay a whole lot of taxes as well"

I don't see the point, but OK, they pay taxes as well. They are paying themselves to an extent, so obviously their taxes will go up as thie compensation increases, but they are still better off.

Swimmer, I have asked a certain question sevarel times, which no one tried to answer. Maybe you can give it a shot?

Why is society better off if cops/teachers get benefitys that dwarf anything available in the private sector? I know why the cops and teachers are better off, that's obvious. But why does that help everyone?

"I reference that scoundrel brother-in-law of yours, from Meridian I think, pays more taxes than you"

I'm pretty comfortable, I'm an actuary and I own a great small business on the side buying gold. That's not the point. Unlike most people who engage in this debate, I'm not worried about myself, I'm worried about others who are struggling to keep up with surging property taxes, which could be reduced significantly if public employees would join the rest of us in the real world.

[Fly Rod]

"I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007"

So when the real estate market imploded in 1991-1993, didn't you have to react somehow? I know many real estate folks had to tighten their belts then, in response to a brutal market. That's what businesses do.

You are a dweller, you like to carry on and on and on.

Apparently you did not read through the third paragraph.

BYE!

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

"I owned a very successful business in the building and remodeling field, thirty five years 1972-2007"

So when the real estate market imploded in 1991-1993, didn't you have to react somehow? I know many real estate folks had to tighten their belts then, in response to a brutal market. That's what businesses do.

You are a dweller, you like to carry on and on and on.

Apparently you did not read through the third paragraph.

BYE!

You're right, I missed that part. I know all about that recession. OK, you said you laid off all but 2 employees when things were slow. So why can't I do the same thing with MY employees, which are the public workers? My salary is a bit less than it was 3 years ago, so why can't I do what you did, and tell my employees (teachers/cops) that they need to feel the pain, too? Every economist I have ever geard has said that this recession is worse than the one in 1991. So why can't I ask my employees (cops and teachers) to make the same kinds of sactrifices you asked your employees to make? Can't wait to hear your answer to that one.

Geez, you just don't get it. What I'm saying is, I should have the same authority to do what you did when times were tough. If you had to retain all of your employees, and give them a COLA raise every year (which YOU said they were entitled to), you might not have been able to bounce back.

you're saying that even though YOU allowed yourself to take necessary, drastic actions when times were tough, that public employees should be immune from such market forces. I'd love to know why you think that.

And as property taxes go through the roof, and as state governments tax and regulate businesses more and more, and as iberals talk more and more about how evil "wealth" is, it gets a lot harder for the next generation (me) to enjoy the same awesome success you had.

FlyRod, the financial crisis staring all of us in the face (which my generation did not cause, but we will sure feel the brunt of fixing) is every bit as bad as the crisis you dealt with in the 1990's, when you laid off most of your folks. How would you have reacted if your staff said "no, you can't lay any of us off. On top of that, we want small raises, and we want fat pensions and cheap healthcare. And we aren't working one second more than 40 hours per week. And FlyRod, if you have to get a second job, or sell your house, to meet these demands, that's OK with us". FlyRod, if a politician sided with your employees and put all that into a law that you had to live with, I bet you wouldn't like it. But that's precisely what these unions are doing to all of us.

Go ahead, tell me where I'm wrong, please.

And I pray you feel better!!