If Obama is such a bad president why is he going to get relected?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Can you tell me clearly what you do not agree with the tea party?

It is hard to figure out exactly what the tea party crowd would institute if they got power, so I will go down this simple list from the republic party/ tea party contract

1. Repeal the Affordable Care Act (Health Insurance Reform)
I think in the end it will be much better than the current system

2. Privatize Social Security or phase it out altogether
Privatizing social security is stupid.

3. End Medicare as it presently exists
The voucher thing is a joke. Ok, now that you are 65 go out and get your own insurance

4. Extend the Bush tax cuts

Not for over 500,000 imo. tax rate of the 1990's

5. Repeal Wall Street Reform
2000's all over again

6. Protect those responsible for the oil spill and future environmental catastrophes

Cap liabilities for those responsible for environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill and let companies like BP decide which victims deserve compensation for the disaster and what the timeline for relief should be.
F' that
7. Abolish the Department of Education
could use cuts, but there are alot of things that are necessary that would get dumped on the states. So millionaires can pay less taxes? No thanks

8. Abolish the Department of Energy
are you kidding me?
End America's investments in a clean-energy future and disband the organization responsible for oversight of nuclear materials.

9. Abolish the Environmental Protection Agency

Pre 1970's environment was great wasn't it?

10. Repeal the 17th Amendment

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

It is hard to figure out exactly what the tea party crowd would institute if they got power, so I will go down this simple list from the republic party/ tea party contract

1. Repeal the Affordable Care Act (Health Insurance Reform)
I think in the end it will be much better than the current system

2. Privatize Social Security or phase it out altogether
Privatizing social security is stupid.

3. End Medicare as it presently exists
The voucher thing is a joke. Ok, now that you are 65 go out and get your own insurance

4. Extend the Bush tax cuts

Not for over 500,000 imo. tax rate of the 1990's

5. Repeal Wall Street Reform
2000's all over again

6. Protect those responsible for the oil spill and future environmental catastrophes

Cap liabilities for those responsible for environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill and let companies like BP decide which victims deserve compensation for the disaster and what the timeline for relief should be.
F' that
7. Abolish the Department of Education
could use cuts, but there are alot of things that are necessary that would get dumped on the states. So millionaires can pay less taxes? No thanks

8. Abolish the Department of Energy
are you kidding me?
End America's investments in a clean-energy future and disband the organization responsible for oversight of nuclear materials.

9. Abolish the Environmental Protection Agency

Pre 1970's environment was great wasn't it?

10. Repeal the 17th Amendment

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

Zimmy -

"It is hard to figure out exactly what the tea party crowd would institute if they got power"

When you dismiss/demonize everyone who disagrees with you, instead of listening to them, then I can see where you wouldn't understand what they would do. Obviously you don't listen even for a second, because if you did, you wouldn't claim that the Tea Party wants to do away with social security altogether. YOu also claim privatization is stupid. Well, I support privatization, and i can tell you why...anyone with half a brain can invest that money on their own and generate a much better return than what social security generates. To me, that makes some sense. You call it "stupid", and you offer not a word to support it. You only call it "stupid" because Rachael Maddow told you to think it, but you can't explain why...

Paul S, you were unfairly cast in that lot, I apologoze, sir...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul S, you were unfairly cast in that lot, I apologoze, sir...

Thank you, I don't want to be associated with them.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

Yes, enough reasons to know why you are uninformed.

[zimmy]

Jimmy, you want the epa ransacked? Department of Energy? End social security? Disagreeing with your gangs lame ideas does not make me uninformed.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jimmy, you want the epa ransacked? Department of Energy? End social security? Disagreeing with your gangs lame ideas does not make me uninformed.

There not "my gangs" ideas, that is where you are misinformed. I could say Code Pink's ideas are shared by all liberals, but I know better than highlighting the extreme as representative of the movement.

Why dont you ask these questions instead -

Is the EPA and DOE effective for the BILLIONS we pump into into them? Is there a better way?

Is Social Security working or would an average person have more money if the money was invested in another fashion instead of being borrowed by the govt and potentially never paid back?

I rather do this that raise taxes. In order to run an effective business you try to lower expenses before raising fees. Is that so bad?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

There not "my gangs" ideas, that is where you are misinformed. I could say Code Pink's ideas are shared by all liberals, but I know better than highlighting the extreme as representative of the movement.

Why dont you ask these questions instead -

Is the EPA and DOE effective for the BILLIONS we pump into into them? Is there a better way?

Is Social Security working or would an average person have more money if the money was invested in another fashion instead of being borrowed by the govt and potentially never paid back?

I rather do this that raise taxes. In order to run an effective business you try to lower expenses before raising fees. Is that so bad?

Nope, not so bad. I think we can make serious improvements in the efficiency of alot of program. The tea party seems to want to abolish programs they don't like because of ideology more than budget reasons I also believe if the one side will not budge on the tax issue for the top percent, then they aren't serious about reducing the deficit.

On the epa: Obama wanted to lower the epa budget by 3 million. Republicans by 3 billion. The tea party seems to want to disband it. Same with department of ed.

The department of energy budget is lower now than in 1984, when adjusted for inflation.

[zimmy]

also Jimmy, those ideas that I referenced came from the tea party affiliates in Congress. I guess I was misinformed about your thoughts on the tea party.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Nope, not so bad. I think we can make serious improvements in the efficiency of alot of program. The tea party seems to want to abolish programs they don't like because of ideology more than budget reasons I also believe if the one side will not budge on the tax issue for the top percent, then they aren't serious about reducing the deficit.

On the epa: Obama wanted to lower the epa budget by 3 million. Republicans by 3 billion. The tea party seems to want to disband it. Same with department of ed.

The department of energy budget is lower now than in 1984, when adjusted for inflation.

"The tea party seems to want to abolish programs they don't like because of ideology more than budget reasons "

You can believe that, and you probably do believe that. But you would be absolutely 100% wrong. We want to eliminate superfluous, inefficient waste BEFORE we raise taxes on anybody.

"if the one side will not budge on the tax issue for the top percent, then they aren't serious about reducing the deficit. "

I'll budge on tax increases, AFTER (read: not before) every single cent of waste has been eliminated. If we eliminate all reasonable waste, and we still have a deficit, then let's talk about tax hikes.

Obama doesn't see the need to reduce spending by any significant amount. He only concedes to that out of political necessity, but his instinct is to increase spending. You have to really be out to lunch to see no danger in increasing the deficits at this point, don't you?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by zimmy

1. Repeal the Affordable Care Act (Health Insurance Reform)
I think in the end it will be much better than the current system

Most think it will be worse. It is also an unconstitutional mandate. But who cares about the Constitution anyway?

2. Privatize Social Security or phase it out altogether
Privatizing social security is stupid.

Another unconstitutional mandate that helps create the originally feared all powerful central government that will inevitably, as such governments will do because they can, overspend the national treasure and create unsustainable debts and bankrupt economic systems that must be taxed at higher and higher rates.

3. End Medicare as it presently exists
The voucher thing is a joke. Ok, now that you are 65 go out and get your own insurance

All forms of universal insurance, whether private or public, will fail to contain costs because universal insurance is a major contributor to higher cost compared to out of pocket payment due to the bigger pocket to pick, and the U.S. Government has the biggest pocket. #^&#^&#^&#^&er over which type of insurance and then grump over unaffordable premiums. At least with some variety and competition, there is a chance of finding something cheaper. Best take Raven's advice and take charge of your own health--stay healthy.

4. Extend the Bush tax cuts

Not for over 500,000 imo. tax rate of the 1990's

"imo" is the key phrase. It's all just opinion--250,000K, 500,000K, 1Mil, 90%, whatever, won't make a difference on budgets or debt. Money will be spent to get votes as always, and government will print and borrow money to lower value of dollar and help it to pay some debt with cheap money, and the economy will be depressed, and eventually (if it doesn't collapse) rebound and the process will continue.

5. Repeal Wall Street Reform
2000's all over again

Repeal, don't repeal, blah-blah, sing-song-sing-song, been reforms-repeals-reforms-new ways to beat the game or the old ways of bribing the politicians. Forgetaboutit.

6. Protect those responsible for the oil spill and future environmental catastrophes

Cap liabilities for those responsible for environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill and let companies like BP decide which victims deserve compensation for the disaster and what the timeline for relief should be.
F' that

Ahh, what the H, just continue to play political games with "disasters" and "crises" as always--nothing new.

7. Abolish the Department of Education
could use cuts, but there are alot of things that are necessary that would get dumped on the states. So millionaires can pay less taxes? No thanks

Another unconstitutional encroachment on the states by the feds. The states pay 90 percent of education cost so another 10 percent "dumped" on them WHERE THE RESPONSIBILITY BELONGS could actually be less costly since there wouldn't be unfunded mandates to adhere to and the people would be more in control of costs, standards, and objectives, and less money would be siphoned out of the states to the national government in order to be partially returned for the benefit of Federal control over state educational responsiibility. And abolishing the dept. would return to the idea of the States as laboratories in the diverse experiments in uplifting their citizens.

8. Abolish the Department of Energy
are you kidding me?
End America's investments in a clean-energy future and disband the organization responsible for oversight of nuclear materials.

"America's investments" is a high-sounding phrase--almost sacred sounding. But it can just be the stultifying sound of the central planner telling us all how it should be done and how much "all Americans" must pay for that plan from on high. No various States deciding on energy policies that suit them (might be some great varieties of ideas)--but the States are too dumb for that--even though the super-intelligent central planners actually come from the States. Do we need an entire Department of Energy to oversee nuclear materials?

9. Abolish the Environmental Protection Agency

Pre 1970's environment was great wasn't it?

Again, another high sounding title that presumes States cannot "protect" their environments. And there must only be adherence to the One Way from on high--not experiments from diverse thinkers throughout the States. And, again, another unconstitutional agency, one of 300 or so administrative agencies that violate the "non-delegation" doctrine inherent in the constitutionally enumerated legislative powers of congress. Not only does the Constitution prohibit congress from delegating its legislative function to another agency, but these regulatory agencies are mini-governments in themsleves, having legislative, executive, and judiciary powers in the same hand, which Madison said was the very definition of tyranny.

10. Repeal the 17th Amendment

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

Abolishing the 17th ammendment would revert election of senators back to the original constitutional method of appointing them by the State legislators who are chosen by the people of the State. The Senate is supposed to be a deliberative check on hasty decisions of congress and to prevent congress from squandering the national treasury, especially from spending it to buy votes. Now that senators must campaign, they too must spend money and get money to get elected. They are now beholden more to large donors than to the average citizen, and are major political benefactors to large corporations, thus being greatly responsible for those corporations paying little to no taxes. Not only are they now more beholden to big money than to the average citizen, they act more in concert with the national party and are more animals of that party than respondents to their respective States as they were when chosen by their state legislatures and were beholden solely to their States and citizens of those States. This repeal will help to restore power back to the States and away from the Centralized government in Washington D.C. It will help give the States more control of their own distinct problems and cures and devolve power back to the people. The momentum for the massive growth of the central government began in earnest in the beginning of the 20th century and the 17th ammendment was one of the reasons for that growth.