Mandatory Life Jacket Law Goes Federal

[Van]

BoatUS Magazine: June | July

More "nanny" laws shoved down our throats.
Feds getting involved is bad news.

[PRBuzz]

From BoatUS:

Coast Guard Considers Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear
An advisory panel to the U.S. Coast Guard gave its go-ahead to pursue federal regulations that would require adults to wear life jackets on certain boats. The National Boating Safety Advisory Council asked the Coast Guard to consider mandating that anyone aboard a boat less than 18-feet long be required to wear a life jacket when underway. In addition it asks that all those being towed in water sports, riding personal watercraft, or in human-powered boats of any length be required to wear life jackets as well.
The 16-5 decision mirrors a trend among state boating agencies to increase the number of people actually wearing Coast Guard-approved life jackets with the aim of reducing boating fatalities. But unlike the Council recommendation, which would apply to all ages, most state laws apply just to children and specify varying age cutoffs, typically 12 and under.

The U.S. Forest Service estimates that 82 million people participated in boating in 2010 and Coast Guard statistics show 736 people died in boating accidents that year. According to a Coast Guard mathematical model, if a 70 percent wear rate was achieved, mandating boaters nationwide to wear life jackets in boats less than 18-feet could save 71 lives each year.

[Van]

The U.S. Forest Service estimates that 82 million people participated in boating in 2010 and Coast Guard statistics show 736 people died in boating accidents that year

Did the math. Its 0.0009% fatality rate.

Its higher than that for shower accidents.

NEW FEDERAL MANDATE !!!!!!
All persons involved in personal bathing activities in standing showers are required to wear helmets or other head protection. Future mandatory requirements may be passed requiring all those bathing to wear a saftey harness securely anchored to existing building structure.

I'm not saying 700 people dying is OK, but guess what.....sheit happens !!!!

[PRBuzz]

For every 1 person that drowns while boating, 7 people die just swimming! (YR2007 stats). Should be mandated every person entering the water must wear a life preserver.

[piemma]

According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), floors and flooring materials contribute directly to more than 2 million fall injuries each year.
Half of all accidental deaths in the home are caused by a fall. Most fall injuries in the home happen at ground level, not from an elevation.


OK, so next the bureaucrats will mandate helmets when at home and WALKING!!!

[striperman36]

How many injuries do hooks cause? Maybe they'll ban hooks

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by striperman36

How many injuries do hooks cause? Maybe they'll ban hooks

Let's keep the thread to DEATHS! I'm sure hooks cause millions of deaths to fish but I haven't heard of any human deaths?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

Let's keep the thread to DEATHS! I'm sure hooks cause millions of deaths to fish but I haven't heard of any human deaths?

Maybe we should be labeling hooks, not for use with humans, do not swallow.

[Rockfish9]

so what they are saying is that people dont fall overboard out of boats longer than 18'.....

[RIROCKHOUND]

OK.
I'm not a fan of the 18ft boats...

I do agree with this portion:
"In addition it asks that all those being towed in water sports, riding personal watercraft, or in human-powered boats of any length be required to wear life jackets as well."

[fishbones]

We downsized from a 23 to a 19' cc this year. I'm glad we went with the 19 because we were considering some 17 and 18' boats. My son always wears a life jacket, but I'd have a hard tome complying with that law. I'm really good about wearing it on the yak, though.

[Raider Ronnie]

I'm by no means for adding new laws or fees but some people are just plain stupid on boats.
This past sunday we were flounder fishing in the harbor in the early afternoon.
There was a small 16-18 ft boat floundering and I counted 7 people on it.
In 1 hrs time 2 different environmental boats pulled up to them and the 2nd one had them heading in.
Don't think they had 1 life jacket on the boat.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

so what they are saying is that people dont fall overboard out of boats longer than 18'.....

No, I'd assume they have statistics that show that smaller boats tend to incur more deaths from people falling overboard.

Which does sort of make sense.

I'm not sure you can argue the "nanny state" on this one. You have taxpayer funded responders who don't get to save this person or not that person simply because of how they're dressed. I'm sure they have data that suggests the most unnecessary deaths, which consume taxpayer resources, are from smaller boats...and distract from the more legitimate cases of responsible boaters in emergency situations.

-spence

[UserRemoved1]

for once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop.

[spence]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

for once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop.

Got to quote this before he edits it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by spence

No, I'd assume they have statistics that show that smaller boats tend to incur more deaths from people falling overboard.

Which does sort of make sense.

I'm not sure you can argue the "nanny state" on this one. You have taxpayer funded responders who don't get to save this person or not that person simply because of how they're dressed. I'm sure they have data that suggests the most unnecessary deaths, which consume taxpayer resources, are from smaller boats...and distract from the more legitimate cases of responsible boaters in emergency situations.

-spence

Using that logic, should all swimmers be required to wear life preservers?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

for once I agree with Spence. UGH. I just hope I don't get the urge to go start buying armani suits to wear in my shop.

Just make sure you buy them at TJ Maxx or Marshalls

[JohnnyD]

If they really want to curb deaths on the water, they should require people take a class before driving a boat. Something that covers safety, the laws, operating a boat, managing passengers, etc. No need for a license, but require a certificate of completion be carried by anyone at the helm.

There are far too many jackwads that have no clue what they are doing when on the water. I'd bet this would save far more lives than the .00001% saved by requiring life vests on boats under 18'.

[UserRemoved1]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Just make sure you buy them at TJ Maxx or Marshalls

[UserRemoved1]

I'm not opposed to this or wearing pfds...both can save your life. I see too many stupid people on the water that don't have a clue. S hit happens so fast that you don't have time to go put a pfd on. It can mean the difference of 5-10 minutes in 50 degree water...saving your life.

I do think Spence hit it spot on though, I'll bet there are startling numbers of what size boats are most prone to accidents or people falling over...and I'm betting that it's not typically happening on 50' cruisers either.

The only issue I have is if you have a bow babe on board with factory floatation....you can't cover natural floatation with factory made

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If they really want to curb deaths on the water, they should require people take a class before driving a boat. Something that covers safety, the laws, operating a boat, managing passengers, etc. No need for a license, but require a certificate of completion be carried by anyone at the helm.

There are far too many jackwads that have no clue what they are doing when on the water. I'd bet this would save far more lives than the .00001% saved by requiring life vests on boats under 18'.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Using that logic, should all swimmers be required to wear life preservers?

That's not the same logic.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

That's not the same logic.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

sure it is.

JD has it right. I can buy a 35 ft boat and speed on the water with nothing to show I can operate a boat, zip. There should be licences or mandatory classes. lifejacjets are an individual decision.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

I do think Spence hit it spot on though, I'll bet there are startling numbers of what size boats are most prone to accidents or people falling over...and I'm betting that it's not typically happening on 50' cruisers either.

736/82000000
I made a quick pie chart to visualize the impact:

Keep in mind that that single line is still not small enough to show how minute the effected population actual is.

I can sympathize with unnecessary death but looking at the chart... are you kidding me? Why is this even being discussed? Take into consideration that out of that sliver of deaths, only one tenth are 'estimated' to be saved. I think the government's time and money could save more than 70-ish lives out of 82,000,000 by requiring a class to be completed before operating a boat.

Hell, if they outlawed tobacco or alcohol, they'd save 1000 times that over a couple years.

[Raven]

smaller boats are tippy canoe
and your weight can flip em

at least it says
when your under way

[Chesapeake Bill]

Rulemakings (putting the advisory into regulation) requires a cost benefit. To calculate the value in this they use a term of art called the VSL (Value of Statistical Life). That is, the average value of a human life. The amount used these days ranges from 3.2 to 5.8 Million depending on the economist writing the regulation. Thus the annual savings would be somewhere between 227.2 to 411.8 million dollars plus the added cost of searches (fuel, equipment, personnel, etc..). So, the argmuent can be compelling if spun right. Plus it can be a moneymaker for them. Think of all the tickets they can use to collect "user fees." I can't argue about the stupidity of some people (regardless of whether they are boating or not) but regulating everyone more because of 71 idiots isn't the answer. I say let Darwin's theory work!

[likwid]

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&

I'm not opposed to this or wearing pfds...both can save your life. I see too many stupid people on the water that don't have a clue. S hit happens so fast that you don't have time to go put a pfd on. It can mean the difference of 5-10 minutes in 50 degree water...saving your life.

I do think Spence hit it spot on though, I'll bet there are startling numbers of what size boats are most prone to accidents or people falling over...and I'm betting that it's not typically happening on 50' cruisers either.

The only issue I have is if you have a bow babe on board with factory floatation....you can't cover natural floatation with factory made

Booger is right on the first and last points.

These are horrible and stop you from doing nothing! Nothing I say!

[UserRemoved]

lookit those pfd's

[Van]

Originally Posted by Chesapeake Bill

Rulemakings (putting the advisory into regulation) requires a cost benefit. To calculate the value in this they use a term of art called the VSL (Value of Statistical Life). That is, the average value of a human life. The amount used these days ranges from 3.2 to 5.8 Million depending on the economist writing the regulation. Thus the annual savings would be somewhere between 227.2 to 411.8 million dollars plus the added cost of searches (fuel, equipment, personnel, etc..). So, the argmuent can be compelling if spun right. Plus it can be a moneymaker for them. Think of all the tickets they can use to collect "user fees." I can't argue about the stupidity of some people (regardless of whether they are boating or not) but regulating everyone more because of 71 idiots isn't the answer. I say let Darwin's theory work!

THERE YA GO.....FOLLOW THE MONEY AND YOU WILL SEE WHY.
PEESES ME OFF....though I don't really see where it costs the gov anything if you bite it,,, but I do see where they make money on fines.
I am sick of these nanny laws.

Why isn't it mandatory to wear a helmet when bike riding then !! I'll bet there are way more injuries on bikes than boats. I guess no law makers own stock in helmet manufacturing......and you can't fine a bike rider.

If people are soooo stupid to not take "reasonable" safety measures when engaged in a hazardous activity (boating is inherently hazardous as is swimming, ATVs, dirt bikes etc...) and they end up taking a dirt nap, at least they are out of the gene pool !!!!!

Once I saw a small skiff with a few "visitors" heading out from the old boat rental place in Quincy. They did take precautions by having boat cushions securely attached to the kids BACKS !!!!!

Those folks swim in the shallow end of the gene pool.

[Van]

Originally Posted by spence

No, I'd assume they have statistics that show that smaller boats tend to incur more deaths from people falling overboard.

Which does sort of make sense.

I'm not sure you can argue the "nanny state" on this one. You have taxpayer funded responders who don't get to save this person or not that person simply because of how they're dressed. I'm sure they have data that suggests the most unnecessary deaths, which consume taxpayer resources, are from smaller boats...and distract from the more legitimate cases of responsible boaters in emergency situations.

-spence

Don't agree.. I may be cruel, but 700 nationwide is a deaths is a drop in the ocean compared to the billions of dollars that is already being spent to maintain these services. They are there anyway so its not really an additional cost.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If they really want to curb deaths on the water, they should require people take a class before driving a boat. Something that covers safety, the laws, operating a boat, managing passengers, etc. No need for a license, but require a certificate of completion be carried by anyone at the helm.

There are far too many jackwads that have no clue what they are doing when on the water. I'd bet this would save far more lives than the .00001% saved by requiring life vests on boats under 18'.

Bingo.... we have Bingo.... Requiring proper lighting on ALL water craft after sun set including kayaks would also help..

BTW... I wear an inflatable and have for years...