THE SPEECH

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

The deadline is August 2nd and there still is no deal. I don't think his speech was grandstanding, it was a dose of reality. A part of the GOP is holding the entire US economy hostage in an attempt to get Obama to capitulate.

What's with this violent speech: "hostage," "capitulate"? Are you a closet right winger? Fishpart has a good point, maybe big, fat government is holding holding us hostage to the fear of disaster if "a part of the GOP" doesn't capitulate?

While most people think the Federal Government spends too much, also I think the polls have pretty consistently shown that people favor a balanced approach to deficit reduction in alignment with the findings of the bi-partisan debt commission.

The fiscal problem goes far deeper than the Federal Gvt. spending too much. It has gone far beyond its Constitutional "entitlement" to spend. And our tacit acceptance that the problem is merely spending and taxing shows that we have been bamboozled to the point of not only not understanding the fundamentals of Constitutional governance, but to the extent that our basic safeguards such as the press, the judicial system, and our educational institutions have abandoned the gift of principled Constitutional governance to the whims of ad hoc responses to so-called crises. Which in turn create a path to new crises and further abandonment and forgetting of our foundation. So let us continue to borrow our way out of debt.

You say you don't want a tax increase (for the wealthy mind you) but a default would likely increase borrowing costs for EVERYBODY. Perhaps you think the middle class is doing great and can take that extra point on their mortgage.

Ah, because the tax increase is supposedly on the wealthy, it's a righteous thing to do. Never mind, the immorality of tyrannizing a minority or the slippage of Constitutional equal protections (it's a crisis, after all). How about the "likely increase" in higher price of products to the middle costs due to taxes being tacked on to cost? Of course, it doesn't seem to be mentioned that GOP proposals indicate that a higher debt ceiling would be granted if actual spending would commensurately be reduced.

And don't forget that the majority of the current deficit is due to the Bush tax cuts, the Bush Prescription Drug entitlement, two wars Bush started and Bush led bail out the Banks. Bi-partisan problems require bi-partisan solutions and some compromise.

Oh, hear you go again with the Bush thing. Bush tax cuts did increase revenue (which dems wan't to do by raising taxes--yeah, yeah, only on the rich--from whom we tend to get job growth when lower taxes allow them to expand). Of course, Bush did what Federal Gvt. does--he spent the money. THAT'S THE POINT! Federal Government overreach beyond Constitutional bounds to spend our substance then demand greater power to borrow, to pay for overspending and creating a larger debt that will, as it has the past 30 years, require even greater power to borrow. So we can deflect from the real problem by pointing to someone in the "other" party to show, well they did it, so it's not our fault, or its OK because they did it too. It's Federal Gvt. overreach, no matter which party is in power, stupid.

There is a way out of this mess but your Obama hate is just getting in the way.

-spence

Yeah, just pointing to Obama, or Bush, misses the way out.

[fishsmith]

OB seems to be far more concerned with the upcoming election than putting a plan in place to pay down our debt, which is crazy looking at the weak lineup the repubs have to face him.

[JohnR]

Spence - a little word substitution. Crude yes, but I only have a few minutes off working today.

The deadline is August 2nd and there still is no deal. I think he is doing a little CYA in case this breaks. Is this political brinkmanship? Washing his hands a bit? The Whitehouse is holding the entire US economy hostage in an attempt to get the House to capitulate.

While most people think the Federal Government raises more than enough revenue, Big Government still finds a way to spend too much. Also I think the polls have pretty consistently shown that tax payers favor a balanced approach to deficit reduction but with a real emphasis of reducing spending. We're pretty good at raising revenue but we are far too good at spending it. We kick and scream at how much money we spend except for when our Reps and Senators bring it back to our district.

You say you (taxpayer) don't want yet another tax increase (for the middle class mind you) but a default would likely increase borrowing costs for EVERYBODY. That is today. Of course the long term problem is that your existing middle class deductions (mortgage interest deductions, child deductions) will need to be removed to generate sufficient revenue. Unfortunately, if we took every dime from the rich, there is not enough money to pay for programs we Americans like. So unless we really take a hard look at how we spend and make significant cuts, then the difference will again be on the backs of the middle class.

Don't forget, government is not the engine that creates jobs, American business do. So the more and more this American business engine gets crushed the more people not working, the more people needing help, the more we spend in deficit. Right now the cart is driving the horse.

And don't forget that the biggest jump ever in deficit spending has occurred between 2007-2011. Between TARP, Tax Cuts, the Wars, expansions in entitlement programs, (which was supposed to save money ) so we then and went and added trillions more in liability to come in effect after 2012 elections (sidebar, funny how the bill will come in after the next political round).

Bi-partisan problems require bi-partisan solutions and some compromise. The cash cow is dead. Big Government killed the cash cow. 40 cents on the dollar goes to pay interest. The cash cow has moved from programs to now paying interest. Why we need to borrow more and raise the ceiling.

There is a way out of this mess but fiscal common sense is being prevented along partisan lines.

[JohnR]

Lets not forget that the evil house has twice passed legislation to fix / mitigate this. Yet the previous house, the existing Senate, and Obama have "kicked the can further down the road"

What is the point of having a debt ceiling if it doesn't force us to look at how we are doing things? My family's liability is about $150THOUSAND dollars. But based on % of tax payers that PAY income tax its probably more like $300K dollars.

This debt ceiling is a stop sign at an intersection. You need to come to a stop and evaluate which way you are going to go. It is not something that should automatically just be blow through.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Spence - a little word substitution. Crude yes, but I only have a few minutes off working today.

The deadline is August 2nd and there still is no deal. I think he is doing a little CYA in case this breaks. Is this political brinkmanship? Washing his hands a bit? The Whitehouse is holding the entire US economy hostage in an attempt to get the House to capitulate.

That was my exact feeling 3 sentences into the speech.
The man is in constant campaign mode.

Only good thing he said was to contact your congressman.
I did and simply said, "No Compromise."

Max your credit card out, cut back on your spending and at the same
time get another credit card. Ya, that wil work.

Guess he missed Economics 101, the more you have the more you spend.