Mass Striper decline numbers from NOAA

[toaster816]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

No. I'm not one drinking the cool aid that things are as bad as these tree Huggers are preaching.
Also not talking out of both sides of my mouth.
We got some in this tread who have killed & sold fish for years (lots of species besides bass) and preaching about collapse.
Guess they found religion and are born again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Let's say for the sake of arguing things aren't as bad as they are being made out to be, even still, wouldn't you as someone who relys on a fishery to make a living, want to make it sustainable so you can pass your business down to future generations? I don't get why would comm's and charter captains NOT want to do everything in their power to ensure they have a future making a living off the sea? Why the resistance? Why wouldn't you want to question if the stocks are in danger or not?

[derekl]

Atleast as a gamefish they may be.caught again
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[stripermaineiac]

Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese. seen it too many times. Sad way to go it. Just remember that a change in tactics or gear goes a long way to sustainability.These fish aren't throw aways just to get a buck. I've had loads of tag returns over the years that came off eel caught fish an plug caught fish that were released.Al Anderson has done it for years while chartering an he's still out there doing it. He knows that every one that swims away he has a chance of hooking again in a few yrs.Keeps the charters happy.I've taken many people fishing over the yrs that went home with some sweet pictures an left the fish swimming. not a bad thing. A change here n there goes a long way. Denial got us the last moratorium. People hear about something like that they don't book charters cause they think you can't fish for stripers. You do a little conservation changes and advertise it an it goes a long way towards business.Plus it helps there to be fish to chase in the future.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by stripermaineiac

Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese. seen it too many times. Sad way to go it. Just remember that a change in tactics or gear goes a long way to sustainability.These fish aren't throw aways just to get a buck. I've had loads of tag returns over the years that came off eel caught fish an plug caught fish that were released.Al Anderson has done it for years while chartering an he's still out there doing it. He knows that every one that swims away he has a chance of hooking again in a few yrs.Keeps the charters happy.I've taken many people fishing over the yrs that went home with some sweet pictures an left the fish swimming. not a bad thing. A change here n there goes a long way. Denial got us the last moratorium. People hear about something like that they don't book charters cause they think you can't fish for stripers. You do a little conservation changes and advertise it an it goes a long way towards business.Plus it helps there to be fish to chase in the future.

"Well Raider I've always kinda laughed at the boston Harbor charter idea of gut hook with a treble n relese."
Hey Ron,
You have never been on a boat with me and certainly not on my boat.
I hope you are not suggesting that we release gut hooked fish to die from my boat.

[big jay]

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by big jay

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".

There's more than one way to get across town. Just because we aren't taking the same route, doesn't mean the destination is different.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by big jay

Let's be clear about "the last time"

Unlimited daily take with an 18" minimum size, unlimited commercial season, with legal dragging and haul seining caused the last collapse. (Not to mention massive pollution in the Hudson and Cheasapeake spawning grounds).


That's a far cry from 2 @ 28".

You might look at the numbers of fisherman now compared to then, the health of bass in the Chesapeake, the bait situation in the Chesapeake, and the number of charters slaughtering big fish all day long up and down the coast. I think you might find the total pressure is similar.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You might look at the numbers of fisherman now compared to then, the health of bass in the Chesapeake, the bait situation in the Chesapeake, and the number of charters slaughtering big fish all day long up and down the coast. I think you might find the total pressure is similar.

Don't forget the estimates that something like 70+% of the stripers in the Chesapeake are infected with myco.

[big jay]

And I realize they still use nets in N.C., and I think that's ridiculous. If commercial guys can't get their limit down there hook and line during those migrations, they should find another job.

[Pete F.]

I'm gonna have to dig out the article from after the last crash where a charter captain regretted doing three 6 pack trips a day livelining bunker and piling big bass in the boat day after day. The super duper catch a pile of big fish charter guys are making a buck right now down south doing just that, you can see the pics on the internet in their ads.

[MAKAI]

If the 2772 permit holders who didn't sell one fish actually sold a few each, the season would be over in a week. Which would make the whole thing pointless.

[Rob Rockcrawler]

This thread has brought out some attitudes.

[MAKAI]

I don't know raider ron at all but I bet he is not a gut hook and release guy.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[stripermaineiac]

The comment is pointed at the practice I've seen in the harbor on more than a few occasions while fishing in the harbor. If you don't do it great but you see it done out there .Yet it is rare to see anyone try to change the practice by educating others that it is a destructive practice.It's still practiced to this day by many. The point is that change is educational by all even when things are not our own practice. the responsability is even greater with a Capt liscence as people look up to us. When they see us ignore things like this they think we condone them too.I've had more than a few heated discussions with friends over issues like this as they're just plain wrong like yo yo ing.We need to lead by our pratices and actions to include teaching others what is good and what isn't.

[Rob Rockcrawler]

I have only live lined a couple of times and did it with scup and 8/0 circle hooks. They worked just fine and we only had one gut hook out of probably 50 bass. I think Maine made it illegal to use anything but circles with bait, did MA change the law also, or was there any talk about it?

[stripermaineiac]

Rob I think a lot of states have talked about it. But there is still a lot of back room talk from some members of the charter industry that feel they shouldn't be limited as to what they use for gear as it cost them money ie cuts down the number of fish landed chunking.Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.

[striper774]

Most of the sentiment that has been against it has been from those makin a buck from it.[/QUOTE]

That's a BULLSEYE.

[MakoMike]

Are there less stripers around now than there were a few years ago? Definitely. Does that mean that the population is "in trouble." no. We'll see what the new assessment has to say in a few months. I'm guessing the population in general is just fine, but we will have to wait to confirm that. Fish change patterns from year to year based on a whole slew of factors. Just because you aren't catching them in your usual spots doesn't mean the population as a whole is in trouble.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

. Just because you aren't catching them in your usual spots doesn't mean the population as a whole is in trouble.

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

[Alhbg]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Good point. I do both and will admit that it has been mostly from the boat for the past two years. Why? The shore fishing sucks.

I'm of the opinion that the reason the shore is worse is because of the lack of small fish. I keep a detailed log and the percentage of fish I caught that were 20" or less was 8% in 2010 and 5% in 2011. That used to be the keeper percentage five years ago.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by numbskull

When any one of us can't catch them in our usual spots it means nothing. When collectively fishermen from NY to ME can't catch them in their usual spots it means a lot.........a real lot.

The population may not be in trouble (however you define that), but recreational fishing from shore most certainly is in trouble and THAT is what concerns most of us.

Numbskull, Alot has changed the last few years for the shorebound guys up north. In all seriousness do you think that even a moratorium for 1,2 years will bring back the surf fishing on the cape for instance, Back Beaches???? I dont think it will be what it was for a very long time or ever for that matter. When was the last time NC got a surf bass run which used to be the norm every year? Over a decade ago? You think they will fill they're com limit this year, I bet not, the fish are all north of NC. There are alot more different environmental factors there, along with alot of other places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. Try selling to all those guys that the stocks are in trouble, or to the guys off VA trolling 40,50,80, 100 fish a trip. They wont hear it. There are to many cyclical things going on Temps, bait, migrational patterns, etc... Yeah I think things are really out of whack, While some areas are lacking other areas its the opposite. Yes we probably are killing to many fish coastwide, making cuts in other fish species switches the targeted species. What I see as trouble in my back yard is cutting season length, limits on fluke, flounder, sea bass, tog forces alot of charter guys, rec guys to target striped bass, its always open, and the limits havent changed in years. When every single boat out there is fishing for just striped bass because u cant fish for anything else is a bit of problem, and they dont need 2 a person. Quite a site to see 150 ft headboats with 40 plus guys snagging and dropping bunker! Agian we can go on and on and blame the recs, coms, poachers, etc. If cuts need to be made if a stock is in trouble it should be across the board. I still think were a ways off from striped bass armegedon, if it even happens. Enjoy your season......

[jimmy z]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

places. Did you know that down here in NJ they had one of the best fall striped bass runs, (Spring was really good to), anyone can remember off the surf and Boat. They are still catching fish on the oceanside in February, off the surf, I dont, and neither does anybody else recall that ever happening. happens. Enjoy your season......

It's a false positive. But I agree, because in this case seeing is not believing.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I bet not, the fish are all north of NC.

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by zimmy

When the population is at sustainable levels, there is no "the fish are all north of NC." They used to be from NC to Maine. The same logic was used by some guys on CC who slayed them in the late 1970's, while the rest of the coast was depleted. It is dangerous to make that assumption. It is circumstantial evidence of a strong population and contrary to the norm. 1 @36 should be minimum to reduce the numbers, although I would rather see 1@ 22-28". That would get rid of the killing of breeders for ego. Nothing complicated about it. People would only keep a fish if they were actually interested in it for eating. Slot limits have pretty good scientific support.

I respectfully disagree, the southern most states in a migratory range and northern most states in a migratory range are more influenced by weather, temps, and bait migration. I have caught Striped bass in water temps as cold as 38-39 degrees and as warm as 74-75 degrees. They will be where the bait is, unfortunately for the shore guys, they have become more of an offshore fish. As far as the slot limits, terrible, terrible idea. Some state, such as my home state of NJ did it for a few years and it wiped out the smaller " Resident" fish. They did away with that slot limit, but to late, damage was done. Its been a few years and things are yet to return back to the "Norm". Its alot easier to catch a 20 some odd inch ranch fish than a 40 plus inch range, the smaller fish are more abundant, natural scale of things, and they hit EVERYTHING. A slot limit does nothing more than kill more fish, fish that one day will become breeders. We should be all working for a common goal, a healthy striped bass stock benefits rec, boat, surf, com, and charter guys, unfortunately every group is trying to do whats best for one instead whats best for all....

[jimmy z]

Why is the Striped Bass in trouble? How do we know they're in trouble. Because it's what is done to all fish. They're cleaned out. Flounder, Ling, Whiting, Cod, Bunker and Herring.
This is a surprise to some? Just look at the big picture and it tells on itself. So why do some think that there still is no problem? Look at the track record of how we just wipe it all out!
Are the Flounder stacked like they used to be in Quincy Bay like they were 30 years ago?

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by jimmy z

Why is the Striped Bass in trouble? How do we know they're in trouble. Because it's what is done to all fish. They're cleaned out. Flounder, Ling, Whiting, Cod, Bunker and Herring.
This is a surprise to some? Just look at the big picture and it tells on itself. So why do some think that there still is no problem? Look at the track record of how we just wipe it all out!
Are the Flounder stacked like they used to be in Quincy Bay like they were 30 years ago?

Yup. Think about the management mandate: "maximum sustainable yield". Translated into real-speak, it means manage the fishery to the edge of a crash and pray that it doesn't go over the edge.

[angler229]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Yup. Think about the management mandate: "maximum sustainable yield". Translated into real-speak, it means manage the fishery to the edge of a crash and pray that it doesn't go over the edge.

This is the exact problem with fisheries management as a whole. Instead of managing a species to make sure populations don't crash they are trying to take as much of possible the whole time verging on causing a crash.
Take winter flounder in the Gulf of Maine...how long ago had that fishery totally collapsed now we are finally seeing good fishing the last few years and management just almost doubled the commercial season limit from 510,000 to 1.1 million lbs. So instead of sticking with a management plan that has allowed the species to rebound and grow they are heading right back down the same path. How long before we see the same thing happen again?

[Redsoxticket]

Who are these people because I want to kick their ass
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[Slipknot]

they can't maintain cod and now stripers, but they protect dogfish to the point that there are so many of them , that they are all around the same or similar size and chow on all the juvenile cod and whatever else they can eat, good thing seals will kill them too.

[MassBass]

Anyone who cares and has the time should step up and attend the Feb. 28th gamefish bill hearing at the Boston State House. Let them hear it. Typing back and forth to each other won't do a damn thing.