Just curious, would any of you vote for Santorum

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I am in no means advocating that super high gas prices are GOOD. I'm not even Chu said it would be goo, and he didn't reference any impact other than on transitioning to other energy sources. The context that without a rise in gas prices, we will not move away from fossil fuels. This is probably a true statement

We need some kind of transition away from them, whether you believe we should for climate, pollution or national security. The reality is it will take some serious time to do (decades). The problem is, this can keeps getting kicked down the road...

The last lines:

Never mind that some energy experts say Chu had it exactly right, and that higher fuel prices would encourage consumers to buy more efficient vehicles, discourage suburban sprawl, make renewables more competitive and reduce U.S. reliance on imported oil. Not even Chu’s department is making that argument these days.

Read more: Steven Chu's Europe gas quote haunts President Obama - Bob King - POLITICO.com

"without a rise in gas prices, we will not move away from fossil fuels. "

Not true. We don't want gas prices to rise, that's not a healthy reason to transition to renewable energy. What we want is for renewable green energy to be cheaper than gas is today. Rockhound, if we set gas at $100 a gallon, then yes, it will be cheaper to buy crappy electric cars, and it will be cheaper to pay $50,000 to convert our houses to geo-thermal.

BUT WHO DOES THAT HELP? Anyone? Not that I see...

"The reality is it will take some serious time to do (decades)."

That's true, we are decades away from realistically-priced green energy. The question is, what do we do in the meantime? Because in the meantime, the world will use lots of oil. The countries that provide that oil, some of which are not very nice places, will make tons of money. It seems to me that here in America, we could use tons of money. Why let others get rich off of us? Why not cash in our lottery ticket, too? This is an issue for which I cannot fathom the view on the left, it's literally incomprehensible to me.

"The problem is, this can keeps getting kicked down the road..."

We are? Kicking the can down the road? Obama gave $500 million of our money (which he had to borrow from the Chinese) to Solyndra. Billions and billions of stimulus $$ went to green energy.

Rockhound, whoever invents the first electric car that actually works for American families, will instantly become the richest person who has ever lived. That's all the incentive that the private sector needs. They're working on it. It's just a hard problem to solve.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's true, we are decades away from realistically-priced green energy.

Mostly because of a very strong fossil fuel lobby. You are a math guy right? Try adding in all of the costs associated w/ oil, coal, natural gas into the mix and see where it comes out. You might be suprised. It would have to be an honest assessment that includes the cost of military involvement in the middle east, taxes and special tax breaks, etc. It is pretty complicated, but the numbers are interesting.

Also, the Volt a crappy car? I don't know where you get your info on that, but it has been almost unanimously received as a well made, incredible piece of engineering and gets excellent reviews for performance. Was that just "hyperbole", too?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Mostly because of a very strong fossil fuel lobby. You are a math guy right? Try adding in all of the costs associated w/ oil, coal, natural gas into the mix and see where it comes out. You might be suprised. It would have to be an honest assessment that includes the cost of military involvement in the middle east, taxes and special tax breaks, etc. It is pretty complicated, but the numbers are interesting.

Also, the Volt a crappy car? I don't know where you get your info on that, but it has been almost unanimously received as a well made, incredible piece of engineering and gets excellent reviews for performance. Was that just "hyperbole", too?

"the Volt a crappy car? I don't know where you get your info on that"

From consumer demand. Even with a $7500 tax credit thanks to Komrade Obama, nobody wants them. (allow the hyperbole, as the truth is, almost nobody wants them).

Hard Times For the Chevy Volt - HUMAN EVENTS


Zimmy, you corrcetly stated that when you talk about the cost of oil, lots of thing sneed to be factored in. Try reading the link I posted, which talks about what the Volt ultimately costs, when you factor in the government subsidies.

And who ends up paying $40,000 for Chevy Volts? Not poor folks, but wealthy folks. So despite liberal claims that conservatives are the ones who want to make the rich richer, here is a case where Obama is giving everyone who buys a Volt (wealthy people), a $7500 thank-you from the feds.

How many janitors and men's room attendants are plunking down$40,000 for a car? Zero. I'd think bleeding heart liberals would be opposed to giving handouts to people who have $40,000 to purchase a car?

Almost nobody wants these cars. They're insanely expensive, and they're not practical.

No hyperbole. Just fact. Not facts that you will like, or even admit given your rabid fanaticism, but facts nonetheless.

Hard Times For the Chevy Volt - HUMAN EVENTS

"it has been almost unanimously received as a well made, incredible piece of engineering"

Despite some as-yet unexplained fires after crash-tests?

http://www.slashgear.com/volt-misses...oals-05206315/

The Volt was a sales flop, despite the fact that the feds were offering a $7500 rebate.

What do you say, Zimmy?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Hard Times For the Chevy Volt - HUMAN EVENTS

I say that your silly, biased article has sales #'s that are less than half of what actual sales were at the end of the calendar year, never mind what they will be for the model year. So you get "crappy" from some moron who says "crummy," but does not speak at all about the technology, reliability, or performance of the car? As far as the rest of the "crap", new technology always costs much more to produce initially. Over time, the actual cost associated with it drop as well as the total cost of the investments. I see the Hannity type simpletons use the same stupid math game to say each volt costs $250,000. Yeah, if they only sold them for one year and never again.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I say that your silly, biased article has sales #'s that are less than half of what actual sales were at the end of the calendar year, never mind what they will be for the model year. So you get "crappy" from some moron who says "crummy," but does not speak at all about the technology, reliability, or performance of the car? As far as the rest of the "crap", new technology always costs much more to produce initially. Over time, the actual cost associated with it drop as well as the total cost of the investments. I see the Hannity type simpletons use the same stupid math game to say each volt costs $250,000. Yeah, if they only sold them for one year and never again.

TODAY...

GM laying off 1300 due to low Volt sales

byJoel Gehrke

General Motors Co. announced the temporary suspension of Chevrolet Volt production and the layoffs of 1300 employees, as the company is cutting Volt manufacturing to meet lower-than-expected demand for the electric cars.

"Even with sales up in February over January, we are still seeking to align our production with demand," GM spokesman Chris Lee said. The car company had hoped to sell 45,000 Chevy Volts in America this year, according to the Detrot News, but has only sold about 1,626 over the first two months of 2012.

"GM blamed the lack of sales in January on “exaggerated” media reports and the federal government's investigation into Volt batteries catching fire, which officially began in November and ended Jan. 21," the Ann Arbor (Mich.) News reported.

The laid-off employees will be rehired April 23rd, when GM resumes production of the Volt.



I think Solyndra did the same thing just before they went belly up

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I say that your silly, biased article has sales #'s that are less than half of what actual sales were at the end of the calendar year, never mind what they will be for the model year. So you get "crappy" from some moron who says "crummy," but does not speak at all about the technology, reliability, or performance of the car? As far as the rest of the "crap", new technology always costs much more to produce initially. Over time, the actual cost associated with it drop as well as the total cost of the investments. I see the Hannity type simpletons use the same stupid math game to say each volt costs $250,000. Yeah, if they only sold them for one year and never again.

"has sales #'s that are less than half of what actual sales were at the end of the calendar year"

That's interesting. All of a sudden you sound like a data expert. If that's true, I can only imagine why you compared 3 years of Obama debt to 8 years of Bush debt. Now that's a real head-scratcher...

Let me ask you this, Zimmy. Is NBC biased against green energy? Because here's an article from MSNBC, an affiliate of NBC, which is very liberal...

News Headlines

Some key quotes...

"With sales lagging and inventories building, GM has decided to idle production of the Chevy Volt for five weeks. During that time, about 1,300 workers will temporarily be laid off."

"so far, Volt demand has fallen well short of original expectations. "

"when GM launched the Volt, it boldly targeted sales of 10,000 in 2011 and 60,000 in 2012. Last year, GM sold 7,671 "

OK. so even with a federal rebate of $7500, they still missed sales numbers by almost 25%, and now they need to lay production workers off. I'm sure Warren Buffet is dying to get a piece of this action.

Zimmy, when they make an electric car for $20,000 that performs the way a family needs it to perform, I'll be first in line. When massive federal subsidies can't convince people to buy this thing, that's called a flop. I'm not saying I like that. I'm just saying what it is.

"does not speak at all about the technology, reliability, or performance of the car?"

You keep talking about the performance of the car. This article, like the last one I posted, mentioned the as-yet unexplained battery fires, here's a quote...

"Then the controversy and investigation into Volt battery fires left a cloud hanging over the electric car. "

Zimmy, from where are you getting your info that this car has awesome performance? If i'm plunking down $40,000 for a car, I don't want to have to stop every 10 miles to plug it in for 12 hours, and on top of that, during those brief drives between re-charging, I have to remember to wrap my newborn in a fire blanket so he doesn't get burned to death? yeah, I'll go down and get mine tomorrow.

People don't want the car, Zimmy. If the car performed well, why don't people want it? Does everyone in America work for big oil, and that's why they won't buy it? For $40,000, you can get a big, comfy sedan, that actually has the high performance you're referring to.

I guess NBC gets its talking points from Shell Oil?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

" For $40,000, you can get a big, comfy sedan, that actually has the high performance you're referring to.

I can get a really nice used car for less than 10 grand and have more than 30 grand left to spend on gas

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

and have more than 30 grand left to spend on gas

Which, by the time Obama is through, might just be enough for a full tank of gas.

The Volt has unexplained battery fires, but Zimmy is ready to give it 2 thumbs up for performance.

$40K for a car that may spontaneously combust around your family.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"


Zimmy, from where are you getting your info that this car has awesome performance?

"has sales #'s that are less than half of what actual sales were at the end of the calendar year"
That's interesting. All of a sudden you sound like a data expert.

Jim, please understand I am done responding to you for now. I previously ignored your posts for awhile because I felt any discussion was just a waste of time. I am done again. You can call checkmate if you want, but please understand it is not an issue of me thinking that you are too good at making your points and I can't keep up. I am just bored. Your comments like having to stop every 12 miles to plug it in demonstrate that in this case, and some others you really have no idea what you are talking about. It is a plug in hybrid that goes between 25 and 50 miles on electric only, then runs on gas. More hyperbole or clueless? Hyperbole gets old... Here is some links for you...

2012 Chevrolet Volt Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars

2012 Chevrolet Volt Consumer Reviews

oh also...

your article said 3200 volts sold. 7671 sold for the year as of Decmeber 31, 2011. You really need me to do the math for you?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jim, please understand I am done responding to you for now. I previously ignored your posts for awhile because I felt any discussion was just a waste of time. I am done again. You can call checkmate if you want, but please understand it is not an issue of me thinking that you are too good at making your points and I can't keep up. I am just bored. Your comments like having to stop every 12 miles to plug it in demonstrate that in this case, and some others you really have no idea what you are talking about. It is a plug in hybrid that goes between 25 and 50 miles on electric only, then runs on gas. More hyperbole or clueless? Hyperbole gets old... Here is some links for you...

2012 Chevrolet Volt Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars

2012 Chevrolet Volt Consumer Reviews

oh also...

your article said 3200 volts sold. 7671 sold for the year as of Decmeber 31, 2011. You really need me to do the math for you?

you are pretty funny...here's the best attempt at a positive article that I can find...of course sales are so strong that they are scaling back production and laying of 1300

Chevy Volt Sales up in February

GM's Plug-In Bounces Back from 'Political Punching Bag' Status

March 1, 2012

Sales of General Motors Co.'s Chevrolet Volt rallied back in February from early year lows, as the company sold more than 1,000 of its hybrid electric plug-in vehicle last month.

That marks the Chevy Volt's third-best selling month ever, and the numbers serve as the first sign that GM's foray into the electric vehicle market has weathered a storm of criticism and negative publicity late last year and early this year. GM sold just 623 Volts in January, and it sold 281 last February


it's third best month ever was 1000 vehicals? WOW...only need to more than triple that for the next ten months to meet expectations

Toyota Beats U.S. Sales Estimates as Rising Gas Prices Stoke Prius Demand

By Alan Ohnsman - Mar 1, 2012

Toyota Motor Corp. seeking record U.S. Prius sales in 2012, said increased supply of the hybrid helped the automaker beat analysts’ estimates for February sales and will buoy gains in March amid rising fuel prices.

Asia’s largest carmaker reported yesterday that sales of Toyota, Lexus and Scion vehicles rose 12 percent last month, more than the 8.2 percent average of seven estimates compiled by Bloomberg. Prius sales, including the v wagon, were up 52 percent to 20,589, the highest in almost four years. The total for all Toyota and Lexus hybrids climbed 60 percent.

.“They’re targeting 220,000 Prius sales,” said Alan Baum, principal of Baum & Associates, a provider of auto-industry analysis in West Bloomfield, Michigan. “Given the assumption we’ll have high gas prices into the summer, this looks like a reasonably good bet.”

I'd blame it on the Obama Reverse Midas Touch

maybe more Obama money is required:

New proposals....Two separate initiatives are being pursued in 2011 to transform the tax credit into an instant cash rebate. The objective of both initiatives is to make new qualifying plug-in electric cars more accessible to buyers by making the incentive more effective. The rebate will be available at the point of sale allowing consumers to avoid a wait of up to a year to apply the tax credit against income tax returns.[64][65] The first initiative is from Senator Debbie Stabenow who reintroduced the "Charging America Forward Act." This bill was originally introduced in August 2010 but was not voted by the full Senate.[64] The bill will turn the tax credit into a rebate worth up to $7500 for plug-in electric vehicles and also provide businesses with a tax credit for purchasing medium or heavy duty plug-in hybrid trucks.[66] The other initiative is from the Obama Administration that was included in the submitted FY 2012 Budget as a provision to transform the existing credit into a rebate that will be claimable by dealers and passed along to the consumers.[65][67]

Another change to the law governing the plug-in tax credit was introduced by Senator Carl Levin and Representative Sander Levin who are proposing to raise the existing cap on the number of plug-in vehicles eligible for the tax credit. The proposal raises that limit from the existing 200,000 PEVs per manufacturer to 500,000 units.



they should just offer Volt buyers $15,000 instant cash in the spot for buying a Volt and get the sales up to like...half of what their goals is and claim victory...still won't need to worry about hitting that sales cap so I guess there's no rush to run right out and buy one

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jim, please understand I am done responding to you for now. I previously ignored your posts for awhile because I felt any discussion was just a waste of time. I am done again. You can call checkmate if you want, but please understand it is not an issue of me thinking that you are too good at making your points and I can't keep up. I am just bored. Your comments like having to stop every 12 miles to plug it in demonstrate that in this case, and some others you really have no idea what you are talking about. It is a plug in hybrid that goes between 25 and 50 miles on electric only, then runs on gas. More hyperbole or clueless? Hyperbole gets old... Here is some links for you...

2012 Chevrolet Volt Reviews, Pictures and Prices | U.S. News Best Cars

2012 Chevrolet Volt Consumer Reviews

oh also...

your article said 3200 volts sold. 7671 sold for the year as of Decmeber 31, 2011. You really need me to do the math for you?

"More hyperbole or clueless?"

Hyperbole/sarcasm.

"your article said 3200 volts sold. 7671 sold for the year as of Decmeber 31, 2011."

Zimmy, my article made it clear that the figure of 3200 wasn't for the full year. If, at the time,3200 Volts were sold, what should they have reported? Something else?

Scott and I both posted articles (that just came out yesterday) saying 7600 were sold, which was far short of initial expectations, despite govt rebates of 20% of the sticker price. As a result, there were massive layoffs.

Zimmy, when you fall 25% short of sales forecasts (despite a 20% rebate from the feds) and you need to lay off staff and stop production, do you know what we call that in business? Failure. I'm not glad the Volt was a flop, I take no pleasure from that. But it's still a flop.

They expected to sell SIxTY THOUSAND Volts in 2012, but they've sold less than 2,00 through February.

People don't like the car. When the price comes down and gas prices go up, that will change.

And I didn't see you respond, again, to the annoying little detail of the batteries catching fire.