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Old 03-17-2012, 11:28 AM   #1
spence
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Originally Posted by scottw View Post
you've jumped all around with nothing that provides any reason to hold up the pipeline...it's being delayed...and probably killed for purely political and ideaological reasons....pretty sad
Actually my points were laid out in an organized manner with supporting documentation.

Further...

At the end of last month the Administration approved the southern portion of the pipeline that didn't require State Department approval. This will transport American oil and benefit the economy. He did this at the expense of some left wing support.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/sc...e-renewed.html

Your assertion that the pipeline has been killed for ideological reasons has just been evaporated by reality, something you would have known had you put your time in.

Additionally, environmental concerns still remain.

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallab...ine-Spills.pdf

The State Department will need to conclude the new route reduces enough risk, but the project is clearly moving forward...albeit in a responsible manner. Not rushed by Republicans trying to score cheap points.

You should really bone up a little more before getting behind the keyboard.

-spence
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:10 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by spence View Post

the project is clearly moving forward...-spence
they didn't "approve the southern portion last month", it was already approved but held up by State pending approval of the rest:

The pipeline to which Obama alluded is only being constructed because TransCanada redefined the project to avoid the State Department's regulatory control over the Keystone XL pipeline. "[TransCanada] informed the DOS that what had been the Cushing to U.S. Gulf Coast portion of the Keystone XL Project has its own independent value to the marketplace and will be constructed as a stand-alone Gulf Coast Project, not part of the Presidential Permit process," the company announced two weeks ago.

Obama touts southern half of Keystone pipeline | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner


The State Department indicated last month that it would not expedite a review of any new application for the cross-border portion of the pipeline.

this is how you tell people that you approved something while cynically killing it....very Obama like

you should read your own links...P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L


"Opponents mounted two large protests around the White House last year, calling for an end to the project. Mr. Obama tried to finesse the issue by delaying a decision until after the presidential election, but Republicans in Congress forced his hand. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/28/science/earth/keystone-pipeline-permit-request-to-be-renewed.html[/url]






Confusion Surrounds Federal Review of Southern Leg of Keystone XL

Saturday 10 March 2012
by: Lisa Song, InsideClimate News | Report

TransCanada says it has most of the state permits it needs, but no one knows which federal agency will oversee the project's final environmental review.

TransCanada's decision last week to build the southern half of the rejected Keystone XL has raised a tricky question about who will regulate the project review.

The process could be stickier at the federal level. The U.S. State Department was the lead agency on the original Keystone XL because it crossed an international boundary. But so far, no agency has stepped forward to take responsibility for the Gulf Coast Project.

The Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, or PHMSA—a section of the federal Department of Transportation that regulates interstate pipeline safety—will definitely play a role in the review process. But when InsideClimate News asked if PHMSA would lead the project review, we didn't get a direct answer.

"All pipelines must be designed and constructed to meet federal, state and local safety standards," Jeannie Layson, PHMSA's public affairs director, said in a statement. "DOT will help coordinate with federal partners and among state agencies to streamline the process and ensure a safe start to the new pipeline."

Howard said that one of TransCanada's regulatory lawyers has identified the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers as the lead agency.

But Army Corps spokesman Doug Garman said it's too early to speculate on the agency's role. The Army Corps has a responsibility under the Clean Water Act to regulate water permits for pipelines that cross streams and rivers, he said. "[Our] jurisdiction is just for work [concerning] waters of the U.S. and not for the entire pipeline route."

"At the moment, no permit applications have been provided and there have not been conversations with any other federal agencies," Garman told InsideClimate News.

Howard said TransCanada is trying to arrange meetings with the Army Corps to discuss what's needed for the pipeline permits. "It's our hope that we can begin construction this summer, and we're building our plans on that kind of timeframe. But obviously the actual timing depends on certain approvals being in place at certain times."

"At the moment, no permit applications have been provided and there have not been conversations with any other federal agencies," Garman told InsideClimate News.

But TransCanada's Howard said the Gulf Coast Project is a stand-alone pipeline with "its own independent commercial value." The pipeline would help relieve the current glut of oil at Cushing by moving excess crude oil to Texas, where it will be refined.

"We have sufficient contracts in place regardless of what happens" to the northern segment of Keystone XL, Howard said.

Droitsch argues that the Gulf Coast Project needs a comprehensive environmental impact statement, and that it's important to have a lead agency to coordinate the review process.

"If the State Department isn't able to oversee the Gulf Coast segment for obvious reasons, then that does not mean other parts of the Obama administration are off the hook for ensuring compliance with environmental and cultural preservation laws," she said.

The Keystone XL's Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS), published in August, didn't adequately address issues of refinery emissions and pipeline safety, Droitsch said. She also pointed out that the Environmental Protection Agency—which noted significant problems with earlier versions of the EIS—never submitted comments on the final document.

"As far as the environmental community is concerned, that [FEIS] was never completely final," she said.

Howard said the Gulf Coast Project will not require a new environmental impact study. Wanna Bet

"There's been three and a half years of environmental review on the entire pipeline route," he said. "Saying that there needs to be more environmental review on the same route is just a stalling tactic by professional activists."worked on the northern portion

Last edited by scottw; 03-17-2012 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:04 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by scottw View Post
they didn't "approve the southern portion last month", it was already approved but held up by State pending approval of the rest:
This...

Quote:
The pipeline to which Obama alluded is only being constructed because TransCanada redefined the project to avoid the State Department's regulatory control over the Keystone XL pipeline. "[TransCanada] informed the DOS that what had been the Cushing to U.S. Gulf Coast portion of the Keystone XL Project has its own independent value to the marketplace and will be constructed as a stand-alone Gulf Coast Project, not part of the Presidential Permit process," the company announced two weeks ago.
And this...

Are contradictory.

And yes, the State Department said they weren't going to expedite a review of the new proposal. That doesn't mean they're dragging their heels...it means they want to do their jobs.

You claim that Obama is trying to "kill" the pipeline for "ideological" reasons...yet the Administration is granting permits for new pipelines to be built, oil production is up and Transcanada is working to mitigate environmental concerns which are a US national interest.

Sounds more like Obama is pretty good at his job.

-spence
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #4
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Sounds more like Obama is pretty good at his job.

-spence[/QUOTE]

the timeline tells the entire story
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:12 PM   #5
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WIKI
The Keystone XL extension was proposed in 2008. The application was filed in the beginning of 2009 and the National Energy Board of Canada started hearings in September 2009. ] It was approved by the National Energy Board on March 11, 2010.[14] The South Dakota Public Utilities Commission granted a permit on February 19, 2010

On July 21, 2010, the Environmental Protection Agency said the draft environmental impact study for Keystone XL was inadequate and should be revised, indicating that the State Department's original report was "unduly narrow" because it didn't fully look at oil spill response plans, safety issues and greenhouse gas concerns.

The U.S. Department of State in 2010 extended the deadline for federal agencies to decide if the pipeline is in the national interest.
The final environmental impact report was released on August 26, 2011. It stated that the pipeline would pose "no significant impacts" to most resources if environmental protection measures are followed, but it would present "significant adverse effects to certain cultural resources."

In the summer and fall of 2011, protests brought the challenge to the White House, leading ultimately to the President's November, 2011 postponement of the decision until 2013.

The final environmental impact report was released on August 26, 2011. It stated that the pipeline would pose "no significant impacts" to most resources if environmental protection measures are followed, but it would present "significant adverse effects to certain cultural resources."

In September, 2011, Cornell ILR Global Labor Institute released the results of the GLI KeystoneXL Report which evaluated the pipeline's impact on employment, the environment, energy independence, the economy, and other critical areas. (where Senator Bernie Sanders is apparently a frequent and admired speaker).

McKibben and other activists moved toward a new oppositional approach which coalesced in August with over 1000 nonviolent arrests at the White House. They promised to continue to challenge President Obama to stand by his 2008 call to "be the generation that finally frees America from the tyranny of oil" as he entered the 2012 reelection campaign.

On November 7, 2011, several thousand environmentalist supporters, some shouldering a long black inflatable replica of a pipeline, formed a human chain around the White House to try to convince Barack Obama to block the controversial Keystone XL project.

On November 10, 2011, four days after twelve thousand people encircled the White House, the culmination of months of protests, President Obama announced "the decision on the pipeline permit would be delayed until at least 2013, pending further environmental review".

On November 10, 2011, TransCanada stated they have spoken with the U.S. Department of State and will have conversations to discuss next steps. TransCanada pointed out fourteen different routes for Keystone XL were being studied, eight that impacted Nebraska. They included one potential alternative route in Nebraska that would have avoided the entire Sandhills region and Ogallala aquifer and six alternatives that would have reduced pipeline mileage crossing the Sandhills or the aquifer.

On November 22, 2011, the governor of Nebraska signed two bills that enacted a compromise agreed upon with the pipeline builder to move the route, and approved up to US$2 million in state funding for an environmental study.

On November 30, Senate Republicans introduced legislation aimed at forcing the Obama administration to approve the Keystone XL pipeline within 60 days, unless the president declares the project is not in the national interest.

In December 2011, Congress voted to give the Obama Administration a 60-day deadline to make a decision on TransCanada's application for the construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline.

On January 18, 2012, President Obama rejected the application, stating that the deadline for the decision had "prevented a full assessment of the pipeline's impact.

February 9, 2012 REUTERS The State Department’s inspector general has found no conflict of interest or improper political influence in the agency’s review of the disputed Keystone XL pipeline project.

Mon Feb 27, 2012 CALGARY/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - TransCanada Corp said on Monday it will build the southern leg of its $7 billion Keystone XL oil pipeline first, skirting a full-blown U.S. review

Feb 27, 2012(USA TODAY) -- The Obama administration, eager to tamp down the Keystone XL oil pipeline as a 2012 election issue, saluted news today that a Canadian company will proceed with part of the project.

POLITICO 3/8/12 Senate sends message to Obama on Keystone
Thursday’s squeaker of a Senate vote on the Keystone XL pipeline serves both as a warning to President Barack Obama that a majority of both houses of Congress supports the pipeline. Obama had personally lobbied Senate Democrats with phone calls urging them to oppose an amendment to the highway bill that would fast-track the Canada-to-Texas oil pipeline. And as it turned out, he needed every bit of their help.
In all, 11 Democrats joined 45 Republicans to support the pipeline. Only the fact that 60 votes were needed for passage saved the White House from an embarrassing defeat.


here's a great question...how many Obama voters were arrested in 2011????

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