Mortgage Principal Reduction?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I thought the law became effective during the Bush administration? Bob Lutz - a liberal

Well then, you would be wrong as usual, because the Volt didn't come out until December 2010. You can look it up to see who was President at that time...

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Well then, you would be wrong as usual, because the Volt didn't come out until December 2010. You can look it up to see who was President at that time...

He's not wrong.

Both Bush 41 and Bush 43 signed laws giving tax credits to promote the purchase of electric vehicles.

Bush 43 did indeed sign the 7,500 tax credit into law as part of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.

Full Text of H.R. 1424 (110th): Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 - GovTrack.us

See Title II section 205.

Then in the spirit of a more constructive forum debate I think you really do owe Paul an apology.

A few data points are missing from the debate over mortgage reductions.

The reason it's a hot topic is that the 5 largest PRIVATE lenders just settled for 26 billion over accusations of improper lending and foreclosure behavior. A good chuck of this money is going to select underwater mortgage holders as compensation for unfair banking practices.

To date Fannie and Freddie have avoided mortgage reductions given the implications of taxpayer money and obviously the potential for abuse.

There certainly is an economic argument that mortgage reductions can be effective to stabilize the market. Some also argue that payment reductions can achieve the same effect.

While I'd agree that what might effectively be a taxpayer subsidy is a slippery slope, given the large number of mortgages held by Fannie and Freddie the taxpayer will end up taking a hit regardless if the situation doesn't improve.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

He's not wrong.

Both Bush 41 and Bush 43 signed laws giving tax credits to promote the purchase of electric vehicles.

Bush 43 did indeed sign the 7,500 tax credit into law as part of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.

Full Text of H.R. 1424 (110th): Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 - GovTrack.us

See Title II section 205.

Then in the spirit of a more constructive forum debate I think you really do owe Paul an apology.

A few data points are missing from the debate over mortgage reductions.

The reason it's a hot topic is that the 5 largest PRIVATE lenders just settled for 26 billion over accusations of improper lending and foreclosure behavior. A good chuck of this money is going to select underwater mortgage holders as compensation for unfair banking practices.

To date Fannie and Freddie have avoided mortgage reductions given the implications of taxpayer money and obviously the potential for abuse.

There certainly is an economic argument that mortgage reductions can be effective to stabilize the market. Some also argue that payment reductions can achieve the same effect.

While I'd agree that what might effectively be a taxpayer subsidy is a slippery slope, given the large number of mortgages held by Fannie and Freddie the taxpayer will end up taking a hit regardless if the situation doesn't improve.

-spence

"in the spirit of a more constructive forum debate I think you really do owe Paul an apology."

We were talking baout the Volt, which did not exist before Obama was President. The reason why I specified the Volt credit is that it's dishonest for Obama to say that Republicans only care about the rich, when his policies (Obama's credit for the Volt) is in effect giving cash back to folks whose average incomes are around $170,000. The fact that Bush had a similar program is irrelevent, because Bush wasn't saying that his political opponents only care about rich people. If my point was that only liberals offer green credits, I would be wrong. Since my point was that Obama has enacted policies that give tax credits to wealthy people, I am not incorrect. But Paul indeed has a point. Obama did not invent the concept of green credits. However, his point was moot, because it was not refuting what I had actually said.

"A good chuck of this money is going to select underwater mortgage holders as compensation for unfair banking practices."

Fine. And after those lenders fork over that money to the feds, they jack up their prices to pay for that. That hurts all of us. It hurts those of us who did nothing wrong.

"There certainly is an economic argument that mortgage reductions can be effective to stabilize the market"

I don't doubt that. However, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. If my neighbor did something stupid, why does he get financial help and I don't? Why does he deserve that money more than me?

Spence, there is also a common-sense argument that you take responsibility for your actions.

"the taxpayer will end up taking a hit regardless if the situation doesn't improve."

I may or may not take a hit if foreclosures hit the market. I will definitely take a hit if my money is taken from me and given to someone who was reckless and irresponsible.

If the value of all the homes are artificially inflated, all that does is postpone the inevitable correction that needs to take place.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Well then, you would be wrong as usualI ask a simple question and you insult me - classless, because the Volt didn't come out until December 2010. You can look it up to see who was President at that time..so there no lead time to develop a car.

And on top of it, a short search shows that the credits were intro. by Bush.

"For those who say that the Volt is the work of government interfering with the private market via the tax incentives given to those who purchase plug-in vehicles like the Volt, they might wish to keep in mind that these incentives were introduced not by the Democratic administration but by the George W. Bush administration"

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And on top of it, a short search shows that the credits were intro. by Bush.

"For those who say that the Volt is the work of government interfering with the private market via the tax incentives given to those who purchase plug-in vehicles like the Volt, they might wish to keep in mind that these incentives were introduced not by the Democratic administration but by the George W. Bush administration"

Paul, if you want both of us to dial it down, I'll do that. You were not asking a simple question, you were making a gotcha! comment, as your laughing-face icon shows.

My point about the Volt was (1) factually accurate in that Obama implemented that credit, as the car didn't exist before he was President, and (2) it shows the hypocrisy of Obama (and his supporters) for making the false claim that liberals are more interested in helping the poor than in helping the rich. Obama's Volt credit exactly supports my claim.

I will henceforth dial it down...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You were not asking a simple question, you were making a gotcha! comment, as your laughing-face icon shows.

The laughing emicon was for Bob Lutz - the CEO or Chairman of GM. As conservative of a person as there is