Trayvon / Media

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

No Difference...which is pretty much why there will probably be an acquittal

exactly the point I've been trying to make!

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

exactly the point I've been trying to make!

Then why are we arguing....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Then why are we arguing....

Didnt think we were, I was arguing with Jakwad, er, I mean Likwid who apparently can only see things one way. The 911 call can easily be spun in Zimmermans favor, not many murders call the police and provide their name, address, phone number and location minutes before committing a crime. Not many murders stay at the crime scene and cooperate fully with the police. I believe there is a ton of evidence that will be viewed in a way that will acquit Zim. I cant see how spence and lw cant see this. Im not saying right or wrong but come on, I dont see how the prosecution has a case they can prove.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Didnt think we were, I was arguing with Jakwad, er, I mean Likwid who apparently can only see things one way. The 911 call can easily be spun in Zimmermans favor, not many murders call the police and provide their name, address, phone number and location minutes before committing a crime. Not many murders stay at the crime scene and cooperate fully with the police. I believe there is a ton of evidence that will be viewed in a way that will acquit Zim. I cant see how spence and lw cant see this. Im not saying right or wrong but come on, I dont see how the prosecution has a case they can prove.

I've never asserted that Zimmerman is a murderer or even a racist. I have asserted I think he's going to be convicted of manslaughter. A good upstanding citizen can royally #^&#^&#^&#^& up and kill someone in an illegal manner.

There's a reason the system doesn't like vigilante justice, it blurs the line and heads straight down a slippery slope.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

I've never asserted that Zimmerman is a murderer or even a racist. I have asserted I think he's going to be convicted of manslaughter. A good upstanding citizen can royally #^&#^&#^&#^& up and kill someone in an illegal manner.

There's a reason the system doesn't like vigilante justice, it blurs the line and heads straight down a slippery slope.

-spence

spence, this is tiring. we usually disagree but this time you're really surprising me. A vigilante MEANS something. They are people who take the law into their own hands, they go out on their own to deliver justice on someone, right?
Zimmerman CALLED THE COPS ! HE TOLD THE COPS WHERE HE WAS!
By definition - vigilantes dont call the police! the incident didnt occur hours after the call, it was minutes after. He suddenly had some change of heart?
He never in the 911 call said "I'm gonna get this guy" or "I'm going kill this bastard"
If you listen to teh call, Zimmerman sounds SCARED, not aggressive
That didnt happen, he called the police and gave his name, phone and address.
How do you think the altercation happened. Trayvon said hey why are your following me? Zimmerman then pulled out his gun? Really? If so, you're tellng me Trayvon has balls to then attack Zimmerman ( we know that happened to to Zims wounds) ??? You think he attacked after the gun was pulled? If not, then it appears likely Trayvon acted first.
Think about it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

. I have asserted I think he's going to be convicted of manslaughter.
-spence

No, no. You said it was "his job" to stay in the car. That's what you said, and it's B.S.

I also suspect he's probably going to be convicted of a lesser charge, mostly to keep the anarchists on your side of the aisle from burning the state of Florida to the ground, which they have a tendency to do when things don't go their way. Especially when your leaders like Al Sharpton get all the morons good and worked up over a bunch of lies.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No, no. You said it was "his job" to stay in the car. That's what you said, and it's B.S.

No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone.

10. Remember always that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police department.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...amHandbook.pdf

I haven't seen anything that indicates Zimmerman didn't cross this line completely on his own judgement.

I also suspect he's probably going to be convicted of a lesser charge, mostly to keep the anarchists on your side of the aisle from burning the state of Florida to the ground, which they have a tendency to do when things don't go their way. Especially when your leaders like Al Sharpton get all the morons good and worked up over a bunch of lies.

Al Sharpton doesn't really have anything to do with this case. It's a deke by some to distract from the substance of this issue.

I think it's going to boil down to two simple things, Martin had every right to be where he was, and Zimmerman crossed the line in his duty in the neighborhood watch by moving beyond simply reporting what he saw as suspicious behavior and by carrying a firearm when he wasn't supposed to be.

If Martin was indeed profiled -- the reporting is that there have been many thefts by young black men recently -- then the issue of Zimmerman crossing the vigilante line is even more important.

Most of the support for Zimmerman appears to be coming from the gun lobby...who's position is just as absurd as Al Sharpton.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone.



I haven't seen anything that indicates Zimmerman didn't cross this line completely on his own judgement.

Al Sharpton doesn't really have anything to do with this case. It's a deke by some to distract from the substance of this issue.

I think it's going to boil down to two simple things, Martin had every right to be where he was, and Zimmerman crossed the line in his duty in the neighborhood watch by moving beyond simply reporting what he saw as suspicious behavior and by carrying a firearm when he wasn't supposed to be.

If Martin was indeed profiled -- the reporting is that there have been many thefts by young black men recently -- then the issue of Zimmerman crossing the vigilante line is even more important.

Most of the support for Zimmerman appears to be coming from the gun lobby...who's position is just as absurd as Al Sharpton.

-spence

Zimmerman also had a right to be where he was.So if Martin attacked Zimmerman, as some have reported, then Martin could be the vigilante attacking whites for what he assumed was profiling and Zimmerman the victim, who had a right to protect himself.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone.



I haven't seen anything that indicates Zimmerman didn't cross this line completely on his own judgement.

Al Sharpton doesn't really have anything to do with this case. It's a deke by some to distract from the substance of this issue.

I think it's going to boil down to two simple things, Martin had every right to be where he was, and Zimmerman crossed the line in his duty in the neighborhood watch by moving beyond simply reporting what he saw as suspicious behavior and by carrying a firearm when he wasn't supposed to be.

If Martin was indeed profiled -- the reporting is that there have been many thefts by young black men recently -- then the issue of Zimmerman crossing the vigilante line is even more important.

Most of the support for Zimmerman appears to be coming from the gun lobby...who's position is just as absurd as Al Sharpton.

-spence

"No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone."

Last time I checked, Zimmerman has the right to get out of his car and walk. Did he do more than that? Did he instigate? Probably. But I wasn't there, and I'll wait for the facts. I learned that from the mistake I made in rushing to judgment in the Duke lacrosse case.

"Al Sharpton doesn't really have anything to do with this case."

So I'm making it up? Sharpton wasn't using this case to fan the flames of hate like he always does? Sharpton has nothing to do with it? Tell that to the white folk who have been beaten in retaliation for this. Tell that to the elderly couple who had to move into a hotel because Spike Lee Tweeted their address. Tell that to Zimmerman, who had a bounty put on his head by the Black Panthers.

Spence, you make stuff up when it suits you. i do not.

"Most of the support for Zimmerman appears to be coming from the gun lobby"

Wrong, and made up. I have no connection to the gun lobby. I doubt Alan Dershowitz does either.

Spence, get a grip, man.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone.

No, it's clearly spelled out in the community watch rules that Zimmerman was supposed to be following. As the chief of the neighborhood watch you'd think he'd know them better than anyone.


Quote:
10. Remember always that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police department. which was violated? sounds like he was engaged in "non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of those situations" read FAQ's

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...amHandbook.pdf


I haven't seen anything that indicates Zimmerman didn't cross this line completely on his own judgement. what evidence suggests he did?

I think it's going to boil down to two simple things, Martin had every right to be where he was,
I can't find a definitive answer of exactly where Martin was staying that night, seems to vary from an aunt's house to a his dad's to his dad's girlfriend's to with his dad and his dad's fiancee, point is, if he wasn't staying in the gated community, he probably shouldn't have been there, doesn't mean you should get shot though

and Zimmerman crossed the line in his duty in the neighborhood watch by moving beyond simply reporting what he saw as suspicious behavior and by carrying a firearm when he wasn't supposed to be.

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

FAQ'S

Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the role of a neighborhood watch member?

Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida. He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors.
They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the situation. Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department.

If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this investigation?

Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon.

If Martin was indeed profiled -- the reporting is that there have been many thefts by young black men recently -- then the issue of Zimmerman crossing the vigilante line is even more important.

Most of the support for Zimmerman appears to be coming from the gun lobby...who's position is just as absurd as Al Sharpton.

-spence

there are a lot of similarities to the 2009 Scott-Cervini case in Greece NY, Scott was acquitted...not much hooplah nationally.......

CNN-According to an Orlando Sentinel story later confirmed by Sanford police, Zimmerman tells authorities that after briefly losing track of Martin, the teen approached him. After exchanging words, Zimmerman says, he reached for his cell phone, and then Martin punched him in the nose. Zimmerman says Martin pinned him to the ground and began slamming his head into a sidewalk.

I think the photos of the back of his head and a witness confirm at least some of this and the wounds were obviously inflicted prior to the shooting, Scott had no such injuries that I'm aware of and pulled the trigger more than once...and no "Stand Your Ground" Law

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Didnt think we were, I was arguing with Jakwad, er, I mean Likwid who apparently can only see things one way. The 911 call can easily be spun in Zimmermans favor, not many murders call the police and provide their name, address, phone number and location minutes before committing a crime. Not many murders stay at the crime scene and cooperate fully with the police. I believe there is a ton of evidence that will be viewed in a way that will acquit Zim. I cant see how spence and lw cant see this. Im not saying right or wrong but come on, I dont see how the prosecution has a case they can prove.

Oh how cute! A personal attack! Let me make a funny like you RIJimmy; steers and queers. Hurry up, they're calling you.

And lets look at some facts.
"They always get away" his words
"Damn coons" his words
Seems he thought he was doing the 'right' thing. And I bet he thought he was in the right for shooting the kid.

Jimmy, lets get down to brass tacks here, are you afraid of black people?

[spence]

Originally Posted by likwid

Jimmy, lets get down to brass tacks here, are you afraid of black people?

Well, it would be the conservative way

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, it would be the conservative way

-spence

It would? Really?

Read some history, Spence. Conservatives led the charge to abolish slavery. Conservatives led the charge to end segregation. The last time the Civil Rights Act was defeated in the US Senate, it was fillibustered by 2 senators from the Democratic party - Robert Byrd (who the Dems made president of the Senate, making him 3rd in line for succession to the office of President) and Al Gore, Senior.

My party wants to give blacks the tools they need to succeed. Your party wants to cripple them for life, by patting them on the head, saying "there, there", and giving them a welfare check. That's worked out just great for the last 30 years, hasn't it?

Thanks to your party's welfare programs which pay teenagers to have kids out of wedlock, 70% of black childred are born out of wedlock. 70%. Not a great cultural leap forwrd in my book.

Spence, when you get past the bullsh*t rhetoric and look at the truth, the air is pretty clean on my side when it comes to race.

Your party, not mine, put a former Klansman to be 3rd in line for the office of the President, until his death in 2010. And Robert Byrd used the "n" word in a TV interview the year he died, so it's not like he turned over a new leaf.

Have fun weaseling your way out of that little fact.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, it would be the conservative way

-spence

And no, racism is not the conservative way? But it is most certainly the liberal way to accuse conservatives of racism (which is what Likwid did), once you realize you've been pummeled in a debate.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

"OK, this thread has run its course. If anything of substance comes along, maybe we can have a new thread. But this has been a circular argument.

I wish peace to Trayvon's family and hope they can find some closure. I hope the systems does what is is supposed to do, and make the appropriate call. John R"

anytime now John

this is ugly and kinda reflects what were seeing across the nation unfortunately....I fear it's only going to get worse....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by likwid

Oh how cute! A personal attack! Let me make a funny like you RIJimmy; steers and queers. Hurry up, they're calling you.

And lets look at some facts.
"They always get away" his words
"Damn coons" his words
Seems he thought he was doing the 'right' thing. And I bet he thought he was in the right for shooting the kid.

Jimmy, lets get down to brass tacks here, are you afraid of black people?

Im sorry you only see things one way. 90% of your posts are personal attacks. If we are discussing a court case and you can only see one side, you are missing 50%. Court cases are not one sided. I tried to show, very clearly, the other side which is a much more compelling argument that you presented. You seem to be the one filled with hatred, I am looking at the evidence as I see it. I could care less what race of the people involved are.

[the point]

No Disrespect but.....

[the point]

Came across this on the web and thought it was great... I heard so much about this case... He is gonna have an unfair trial. No one was there to know what really happened,, its all he said she said Bull #^&#^&#^&#^&.