Paul Ryan it is...

[Nebe]

i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems, because for the past 20 years, each president has pushed the problems under the rug for the next guy... now the problems are so bad that they might possibly be unfixable...

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems, because for the past 20 years, each president has pushed the problems under the rug for the next guy... now the problems are so bad that they might possibly be unfixable...

The Constitution, the Constitution, the Constitution . . . follow the Constutution. We need a President, and a Congress, and a Supreme Court, that follows the Constitution. Without a foundation, without principals, without a Supreme Law, none of the above will be ruled. They will rule us and spend our money, and distribute our wealth, and create regulations upon regulations that put us in increasingly smaller boxes from which it will be increasingly more difficult to squeeze and wriggle out of. They are operating now without direction and ever growing power at the expense of our own. The system consumes neophyte congressman and spits them out as bureaucratic clones. New ones are outnumbered by the entrenched holders-on. The only ones who can make them bend to our will is We The People. But without a common principle of governance, but, instead with fragmented and opposing desires that are fed, or promised to be fed, to disparate groups with incoherent policies and "plans," we remain at the mercy of the bumbling and essentially lawless bureacracy.

The most difficult, and most essential task, now, for We The People, is to unite with common purpose to free us from the dependence on, and expectation of, a benevolent government to "fix" itself. It cannot be fixed if it thinks it is doing what is right and good. The unsolvable mess that you describe is ultimately of our own making. We allow it. We choose to remain ignorant of what a society, or country needs to exist, perpetuate, and flourish--a common foundation, a uniting principle. We refuse, in our case, to understand our own Constitution, preferring to leave it up to the politicians and judges. Our ignorance is their license.

[scottw]

this is pretty comical but i guess an indicator of where we're at, keep in mind Obama's proposed budgets have been laughable and the Senate Dems have failed to pass a budget since....well, a very long time...which some might consider extreme and radical since they are Constitutionally mandated to do so

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a
sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its
own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from
foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.
Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally.
Leadership means that, "the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is
shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and
grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better. "

~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by detbuch

The Constitution, the Constitution, the Constitution . . . follow the Constutution. We need a President, and a Congress, and a Supreme Court, that follows the Constitution. Without a foundation, without principals, without a Supreme Law, none of the above will be ruled. They will rule us and spend our money, and distribute our wealth, and create regulations upon regulations that put us in increasingly smaller boxes from which it will be increasingly more difficult to squeeze and wriggle out of. They are operating now without direction and ever growing power at the expense of our own. The system consumes neophyte congressman and spits them out as bureaucratic clones. New ones are outnumbered by the entrenched holders-on. The only ones who can make them bend to our will is We The People. But without a common principle of governance, but, instead with fragmented and opposing desires that are fed, or promised to be fed, to disparate groups with incoherent policies and "plans," we remain at the mercy of the bumbling and essentially lawless bureacracy.

The most difficult, and most essential task, now, for We The People, is to unite with common purpose to free us from the dependence on, and expectation of, a benevolent government to "fix" itself. It cannot be fixed if it thinks it is doing what is right and good. The unsolvable mess that you describe is ultimately of our own making. We allow it. We choose to remain ignorant of what a society, or country needs to exist, perpetuate, and flourish--a common foundation, a uniting principle. We refuse, in our case, to understand our own Constitution, preferring to leave it up to the politicians and judges. Our ignorance is their license.

Bingo.

I believe we have two additional problems.
Like Nebe said, the hard problems are pushed under the rug for the next guy. We have a bunch of representatives that once in, want to make a career of their office, forgetting they are supposed to be servants as the Founding Fathers envisioned.
We need true servants who are willing to follow the constitution make the tough choices and do what's best for the country, not for selfish reasons, not looking towards the next election.

Second we have a fractionated population where politicians pander most too the group they think will re-elect them. Our melting pot has unfortunatley ceased to melt.
Except for our armed services, who truly serve, Patriotism is fading away and it's up to our President and Representatives to make us one, lead by example and lead us back to being American's first.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems, because for the past 20 years, each president has pushed the problems under the rug for the next guy... now the problems are so bad that they might possibly be unfixable...

"
i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems"

But Ryan has, courageously, done exactly that. His budget calls for Medicare savings in the multiple trillions of dollars.

What was the Democratic response? Did they offer an alternative plan to save the trillions that we need to save? No. They made a commercial showing Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff.

That's the choice in thsi election. Romney/Ryan are taklking about the best way to make the difficult but necessary cuts. Obama/Biden will try to make us fear them for that.

Eben, I agree, we are in thsi mess because both parties chose to ignore this problem for 40 years. But today, one party is addressing these issues, the other is not.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems, because for the past 20 years, each president has pushed the problems under the rug for the next guy... now the problems are so bad that they might possibly be unfixable...

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"
i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems"

But Ryan has, courageously, done exactly that. His budget calls for Medicare savings in the multiple trillions of dollars.

What was the Democratic response? Did they offer an alternative plan to save the trillions that we need to save? No. They made a commercial showing Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff.

That's the choice in thsi election. Romney/Ryan are taklking about the best way to make the difficult but necessary cuts. Obama/Biden will try to make us fear them for that.

Eben, I agree, we are in thsi mess because both parties chose to ignore this problem for 40 years. But today, one party is addressing these issues, the other is not.

Jim - even though you sometimes give me a headache reading your posts you are spot on with this. Ryan IS the only one offering some kind of plan out. He stuck his neck WAY out and got pig piled on for it but he did have the testicular fortitude to do it. The Democratic party has NOT come up with a way out.

Ryan's plan is too austere for my tastes and would be watered down a bit but it is part of the way forward.

The LONGER we wait to implement something than the more austere it would be.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

The LONGER we wait to implement something than the more austere it would be.

John, the actuaries have been saying for FIFTY years that the Baby Boomers will destroy Medicare and Social security. And for 50 years, politicians haven't been honest enough to do anything about it.

I'm not saying Ryan's plan is necessarily the best solution. But as of the time I sit here and type this, NOONE on the other side is offering any alternatives, other than to keep kicking the can down the road. We can't afford to do that anymore.

Ryan admits this, even though he knews he'll get crucified. Obama and Biden also know this to be true, but they aren't honest/brave enough to say it out loud. We have serious problems that require serious, brave, honest leadership. Obama ain't remotely it.

"The Democratic party has NOT come up with a way out."

And what does that say about them? The lowest estimates for the shortfalls for SS and Medicare are at least $40 trillion. That's more than $130,000 for every living American. How can anyone take a party seriously, that doesn't have a plan to fix this? Anyone with half a brain admits this debt rises to the level of a genuine national security threat, and the Democratic plan is to make the other side too politically afraid to talk about it.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

John, the actuaries have been saying for FIFTY years that the Baby Boomers will destroy Medicare and Social security. And for 50 years, politicians haven't been honest enough to do anything about it.

Yup, I can remember hearing it way back in the 50"s when the Baby Boomers were
being born by the droves. No one, that I can remember, ever even tried to address
the problems except Bush's Soc Sec plan.
Ryan came up with both a budget and Medicare plan, but between the press not covering them, and the opposition poo pooing them, they really never saw the light of day. As mentioned above, each day we wait for a solution the more austere it will be if it can be salvaged at all.

We are going broke,this election has to be about who has the best solutions for paying down the debt, improving the economy, increasing jobs and coming up with solutions for Soc Sec and Medicare.
Overdue time to pay the piper.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by spence

Ryan has not presented any serious proposal to save Medicare trillions of dollars, if anything he's proposed a theory that shifting costs to seniors will decrease overall healthcare costs through competition.

But without insurance exchanges (as established by Obama) there's no way to manage risk which will likely result in what we had before the HCB, namely insurers seeking to game the system by avoiding it, something that would only get worse with less regulation.

The closest thing to a government subsidized system via private insurers (Medicare Advantage) I believe has RAISED costs 8%.

-spence

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, I asked you what Obama/Biden have offered as a solution to Medicare. In true liberal fashion, instead of answering my question, you choose to insult Ryan.

What Spence said is an insult? And you follow it with "in true liberal fashion"?

[spence]

Originally Posted by zimmy

What Spence said is an insult? And you follow it with "in true liberal fashion"?

I doubt he even read my post.

Obama has laid out numerous proposals to bolster Medicare. From negotiation of drug prices, ending insurance over payments through Medicare Advantage, cost controls when rates increase faster than 1% of GDP, programs to improve accuracy of care and coordination to eliminate redundant services etc...

Does this represent a proposed "fix"? I don't think anyone could propose a real fix. A fundamental question is if you believe Medicare is a compact to ensure you'll have health care when at the end of your life you likely won't be able to afford it.

Don't forget as well that under it all is the HCB. From what I've read about the Ryan plan, there are numerous pieces of the Obama plan (like exchanges) that Ryan would need to reuse.

The GOP could be in a pickle when people get down to the details and realize there's more similarities under the covers.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

What Spence said is an insult? And you follow it with "in true liberal fashion"?

Zimmy, I asked Spence what Obama's alternative idea is to fix Medicare. That's a fair and simple question.

Spence's answer was that Ryan's plan sucks.

That's not remotely answering the question that I asked. But it is absolutely what liberals do, again and again. Do you recall the commercial showing Paul Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff? Zimmy, is that productive dialogue in your opinion?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Ryan came up with both a budget and Medicare plan, but between the press not covering them, and the opposition poo pooing them, they really never saw the light of day. As mentioned above, each day we wait for a solution the more austere it will be if it can be salvaged at all.

CNN already has an opinion bash-piece about Ryan's plan to try and let people invest a portion of their SS taxes into a private investment vehicle.

It is currently *the* front page featured article from their CNN Money sections. They never feature articles from the Money section of their website.
Ryan's controversial Social Security plan he doesn't discuss - Aug. 14, 2012

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"
i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems"

But Ryan has, courageously, done exactly that. His budget calls for Medicare savings in the multiple trillions of dollars.

Ryan has not presented any serious proposal to save Medicare trillions of dollars, if anything he's proposed a theory that shifting costs to seniors will decrease overall healthcare costs through competition.

But without insurance exchanges (as established by Obama) there's no way to manage risk which will likely result in what we had before the HCB, namely insurers seeking to game the system by avoiding it, something that would only get worse with less regulation.

The closest thing to a government subsidized system via private insurers (Medicare Advantage) I believe has RAISED costs 8%.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Ryan has not presented any serious proposal to save Medicare trillions of dollars, if anything he's proposed a theory that shifting costs to seniors will decrease overall healthcare costs through competition.

But without insurance exchanges (as established by Obama) there's no way to manage risk which will likely result in what we had before the HCB, namely insurers seeking to game the system by avoiding it, something that would only get worse with less regulation.

The closest thing to a government subsidized system via private insurers (Medicare Advantage) I believe has RAISED costs 8%.

-spence

Spence, I asked you what Obama/Biden have offered as a solution to Medicare. In true liberal fashion, instead of answering my question, you choose to insult Ryan.

Is Ryan's plan the best possible solution to save Medicare? Maybe not. But as of today (as JohnR said), he is the only elected official in Washington (that I know of) who had the intellectual honesty to say out loud that Medicare is broke and needs fixing.

In response, all Obama has done is insult Ryan. And you are doing the same.

Jim in CT: Spence, what is the Democratic plan to save Medicare

Spence: Ryan's plan is not serious.

See what I mean, Spence? You didn't answer the question I asked. I didn't ask you what you thought of Ryan's plan (because everyone on Earth knows what you think of it). I asked you what your party's plan is...and your party has no plan. All they can do, all you can do, is insult.

Do you never, ever get tired of that?