Finally, an opponent takes the gloves off against Obama

[Jim in CT]

I've been waiting a long time for someone to hit back against Obama, and to tell America exactly what Obama is.

Yesterday in Ohio, Romney said this of Obama

"He demonizes some. He panders to others. His campaign strategy is to smash America apart and then cobble together 51 percent of the pieces. If an American president wins that way, we all lose," Romney said. "So, Mr. President, take your campaign of division and anger and hate back to Chicago, and let us get about rebuilding and reuniting America."

Here here! Or, is it hear hear! Either way, you get my point...that's exactly what Obama is and does.

[PaulS]

That is the way to talk to the Kenyan born, socialist, Muslim.

[Nebe]

He's going to be re-elected sorry
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

That is the way to talk to the Kenyan born, socialist, Muslim.

No. But congrats on playing the race card where it has no place. PaulS, welcome back. Your first response to me in a while is to put idiotic jibberish in my mouth that doesn't resemble anything I have ever said.

But this is exactly how you talk to a guy who, in 2008, said that the other side (a hero named John McCain) is "going to make you afraid of teh fat that I'm black".

It's how you talk to a guy who says that those who disagree with him should "get in the back of the bus".

It's how you talk to a guy whose former policy advisor (Bill Burton) puts out a ridiculous ad suggesting that Romney caused this woman's death...and Obama will not denounce that ad.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

That is the way to talk to the Kenyan born, socialist, Muslim.

And it would be easier for me to swallow his being a Muslim than it is for me to accept that he subscribed to Black Liberation Theology for 20 years, until it became politically expedient for him to switch religions. Yessir, you have to admire a man that chooses his religion based on political polling!

[The Dad Fisherman]

If you two can't behave I will shut this down in a heartbeat...

Have a Nice Day

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No. But congrats on playing the race card where it has no place. PaulS, welcome back. Your first response to me in a while is to put idiotic jibberish in my mouth that doesn't resemble anything I have ever said.

Race card

Having the usual reading comprehension problems today? I didn't say that was a quote of yours. You must be feeling guilty for some reason

Thanks for the welcome back - I didn't miss your posts.

Maybe Romney should spend some time and fufill his promise to ABC news and get back to them on whether he ever paid less than 13.9% in taxes

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"He demonizes some. He panders to others. His campaign strategy is to smash America apart and then cobble together 51 percent of the pieces. If an American president wins that way, we all lose," Romney said. "So, Mr. President, take your campaign of division and anger and hate back to Chicago, and let us get about rebuilding and reuniting America.".

Again, Romney talking about any other politician pandering to their voting-base is the definition of the Pot calling the Kettle black (no racial pun intended).

[RIJIMMY]

Paul, can you seriously denounce one single word that Romney said about O? Is there one part of that you disagree with?
I'm not a Romney fan, but its spot on. That is exactly Obamas campaign strategy.

[PaulS]

RIJ - My point was that Obama has been insulted more than any other pres. than I can remember - and that much is below the belt. Has any pres. been shown more anger than Obama?

Legit criticism is certainly appropriate.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"He demonizes some. He panders to others. His campaign strategy is to smash America apart and then cobble together 51 percent of the pieces. If an American president wins that way, we all lose," Romney said.

Sounds exactly like the Karl Rove approach Bush used.

I think every presidential candidate would be guilty of demonization and pandering.

Obama certainly didn't smash America apart in 2008, hell, if anything he won by capturing the independent vote.

I could make a good argument even now that Romney is doing exactly as he just said.

That's why the quote doesn't have a lot of value outside of the haters.

-spence

[Nebe]

every election its the same thing. They work to discredit the other person and say very little about what THEY would actually do... I am getting so sick of this crap..

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Again, Romney talking about any other politician pandering to their voting-base is the definition of the Pot calling the Kettle black (no racial pun intended).

JohnnyD, I do not know much about what Romney did as governor, if that is what you are referring to. But since you are not one here who is prone to lies or exaggerations, I believe you that Romney has done some pandering.

I don't see that he's doing much pandering now. Did you see the speech he gave at the NAACP last month? Zero pandering. I mean, you and I both know that the easiset thing in the world for a politician to do is pander, and tell them what we know they wanted to hear. Romney did the opposite, telling the audience that what he was promising was the opportunity for them to rise out of poverty if they were willing to work for it. It was a very brave speech, which is why he got booed.

Biden spoke to the same audience a few days later, and right out of the liberal playbook, he told the NAACP that none of the poverty was any of their fault, and that they better be afraid of the GOP who wants to keep them in poverty forever (as opposed to welfare, which has done such a great job in eliminating poverty).

Johnny, I have zero doubt that your claim (that Romney has been a panderer) is valid. But I also believe you give credit where it's due...he sure as hell didn't pander to the NAACP, and it might have been politically wise for him to pander to them...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

Obama certainly didn't smash America apart in 2008, hell, if anything he won by capturing the independent vote.

With promises of crossing the aisle and working closely with Democrats and Republicans alike. Then, he crapped all over the Independent vote by building a huge steel wall between himself and Republicans and by ignoring just about all moderate promises that he made.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Then, he crapped all over the Independent vote by building a huge steel wall between himself and Republicans and by ignoring just about all moderate promises that he made.

I'll bet that's a lot easier to post than prove.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I'll bet that's a lot easier to post than prove.

-spence

As for breaking promises, he promised to cut the deficit in half and to close Gitmo...

As for being divisive, he said that Republicans should sit in the back of the bus.

How's that for worlking across the aisle Spence? How will you spin that, I wonder?

A little modicum of intellectual honesty makes life a lot easier Spence.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

As for breaking promises, he promised to cut the deficit in half and to close Gitmo...

As for being divisive, he said that Republicans should sit in the back of the bus.

How's that for worlking across the aisle Spence? How will you spin that, I wonder?

A little modicum of intellectual honesty makes life a lot easier Spence.

We'll completely ignore the Defense Authorization Bill of 2011, it would be hard to build outrage and blame with that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

We'll completely ignore the Defense Authorization Bill of 2011, it would be hard to build outrage and blame with that.

Likwid, I don't know what that bill is, I don't know what it did. Unless that bill closed Gitmo or made it illegal to insult Republicans, posting that bill does not refute my point.

Spence said it would be difficult to prove that Obama broke promises, and that it would be difficult to prove that Obama intentionally alienates his political opponents. He said that would be difficult. Turns out, it's only difficult when you are literally blinded by love for Obama.

As it turns out, if you consider Obama's record honestly and thoughtfully, you can prove those things in two seconds.

Did Obama break every promise he ever made? Nope. Does he insult conservatives every time he opens his mouth? Nope.

Did he break promises? Yes. Does he have a habit of demonizing those who disgree with him? Yes.

Nothing hateful or even opinionated in that post. Just fair-minded honest facts.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by likwid

We'll completely ignore the Defense Authorization Bill of 2011, it would be hard to build outrage and blame with that.

You mean a bill that was essentially dropping the Constitution into a fire? As a Constitutional Scholar, you'd think Obama would have vetoed the bill due to the blatant destruction of civil liberties that were contained within.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Likwid, I don't know what that bill is, I don't know what it did. Unless that bill closed Gitmo or made it illegal to insult Republicans, posting that bill does not refute my point.

Go look it up, please. Just spewing "look! didn't close gitmo!" without understanding the backstory is just straight up silly.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

Go look it up, please. Just spewing "look! didn't close gitmo!" without understanding the backstory is just straight up silly.

OK, I looked it up. I also went back and listened to his campaign promises.

The man promised to close Gitmo. Gitmo is still open. Promise broken.

Am I going too fast?

He also promised to cut the deficit in half, and hasn't done so. Is it equally silly for me to say he broke that promise?

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Sounds exactly like the Karl Rove approach Bush used.

I think every presidential candidate would be guilty of demonization and pandering.

Obama certainly didn't smash America apart in 2008, hell, if anything he won by capturing the independent vote.

I could make a good argument even now that Romney is doing exactly as he just said.

That's why the quote doesn't have a lot of value outside of the haters.

-spence

to Paul and Spence - Thats just plain crap - talking points, but let me see some details. I can easily give you specific examples where Obama has said (my quotes may be slighly off) -
1. "These people cling to the their guns and religion" - while addressing San Francisco dems
2. "People say you should learn English, while I say maybe your kids should learn Spanish" while addressing a latino crowd
3. Countless times he demonized "wall st fat cats", banking, etc

Romney has been in the political limelight for over decade. Obama much less. Please provide examples of Romney insulting americans, demonizing people he doesnt agree with or contribution to dividing this country?
It speaks to class and character. Sorry, Obama does not rate highly in either category. I look forward to the details.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The man promised to close Gitmo. Gitmo is still open. Promise broken.

The man was forced into not closing Gitmo.

Am I going too fast?

Do I need to make comments that will make you cry to the mods?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Nebe

every election its the same thing. They work to discredit the other person and say very little about what THEY would actually do... I am getting so sick of this crap..

I'm kinda hoping for a third party, maybe call it the Common party as opposed to the Emperor's Red and Blue parties that have no clothes.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I'm kinda hoping for a third party, maybe call it the Common party as opposed to the Emperor's Red and Blue parties that have no clothes.

The media (and the two parties) will make sure that never happens.
Polarizing people to one side or another is easier to sell to.

Most who try to run independent are marginalized (most for very good reason) and shunned by mass media and the two parties.

Unless someone can be produced who has a reasonable view (sorry, but nuking taxes and programs for this that and everything else will never fly) with reasonable cuts ACROSS the board (yes i mean everything tightening up the belt) it'll never happen.

As it is, the level of pandering you have to do to EVERY special/not special interest group prevents that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think every presidential candidate would be guilty of demonization and pandering.

-spence

Ahhh. But Obama was the one who promised something called "change". HE was going to be a different (better) kind of politician. HE was going to end the partisan rhetoric and bring us all together. Since his entire campaign was based upon "change", I don't think it's a valid defense to say "everyone does it".

He promises to be different, people buy it, he turns out not to be different, , and no one holds him accountable for that.

And Spence, in the same thread here, yuo claimed that (1) you don't agree that Obama demonizes the opposition, and then (2) you defend it by saying everyone else does it.

Spence: Obama doesn't sling mud. And besides, it's OK when he does it, because everyone else does.

[spence]

The remark was in context of promises made to "moderates". Closing GTMO was a promise made to the Left.

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are about PolitiFact's Top Promises
The only broken promise I see here that would appeal to moderates would be a tougher position on industry lobbyists.

Other than that it's all Left-wing stuff.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

The man was forced into not closing Gitmo.



Do I need to make comments that will make you cry to the mods?

"The man was forced into not closing Gitmo"

By whom? The man is the President. Who forced him, and how? Boy, we've come a long way from "the buck stops with me". With Obama, it's always "don't blame me".

[spence]

Obama wasn't forced, I think he looked at the situation (i.e. nobody wanted to take any of the inmates still there regardless of their threat level) and had no other options.

-spence

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I'm kinda hoping for a third party, maybe call it the Common party as opposed to the Emperor's Red and Blue parties that have no clothes.

There is always the Libertarian party...Unfortunately the Christian Conservatives and the Social Democrats will make sure that never happens.