Chicago schoolteachers go on strike

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Any ideas or you just think someone else should be able to figure it out? Let me know when you find one. I didn't say it can't be figured out, but so far it hasn't. Comparing student performance to sales is rather asinine in my opinion. The places where lousy teachers get to stay are the schools that don't have people in line to take the job. Good suburban school districts don't seem to be struggling for "good" teachers. The best Chicago teachers that haven't already, can head to the suburbs and test performance won't be an issue. How will that fix the problems in the city?

The reason it hasn’t been figured out so far is that the Unions will not let it.

Here’s a thought, give a standardized test the first week of school for that year grade level. Teacher teaches class throughout the year for the grade level. Give that same exact standardized test at the end of the year and look at how the scores improve. Not every kid will learn and improve. Most kids (with a competent teacher will have learned and will show improvement). A teacher should not be fired for a few bad eggs. If scores overall don’t improve much from the first time around, something is wrong and needs to be looked at. If most kids show improvement, there probably isn’t in issue. If most kids show no improvement year over year with a teacher or two out of the whole bunch, there is a problem. I don’t think it’s that difficult to figure out. The reason it hasn’t been figured out is that the teachers union seems to have a vice grip on these things and do not want teachers to be rated.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Piscator

The reason it hasn’t been figured out so far is that the Unions will not let it.

If scores overall don’t improve much from the first time around, something is wrong and needs to be looked at. If most kids show improvement, there probably isn’t in issue. If most kids show no improvement year over year with a teacher or two out of the whole bunch, there is a problem. .

Guess what? That kind of testing already exists. What it shows is that urban schools have less growth across the board. Schools with kids who come in to kindergarten not reading continue to do poorly throughout their education. Kids in suburban schools come in to kindergarten doing well and continue on that path. The data comes out the same way from school to school across the country. It might pick out an occasional teacher that is not teaching anything, but the administration will almost always know there is a problem with those teachers. Those teachers shouldnt get paid less and the others paid more, the poor teachers should get booted. That is what happens in schools that are able to attract candidates. It still doesn't fix the primary socioeconomic problems that lead to the differences in the cities vs. the suburbs.
The resistance of unions to it is that the people who are trying to implement it are politicians, not statisticians. People who have no idea about variables, correlations, etc. Simpleton politicians can think it sounds good, but it doesn't make it good or effective or beneficial to education. Teachers in the suburbs will appear great and teachers in the cities will appear lousy.

[scottw]

this is great...

"Chicago's teachers have the highest average salary in the country at $76,000/year and according to the Mayor's office, the financial side of the $400 Million deal is done. 4%/year raises have been agreed to, taking them to $88,900/year by 2016.

The Mayor's office stated that:

"The two remaining stumbling blocks involve re-hiring laid off teachers from schools that get shut down or shaken up and a new teacher evaluation process that the union says puts far too much weight on student test scores."

So while 404,000 students are missing school, the real issues are accountability and union job protection.

Chicago is not really different from Wisconsin, but while it is only 90 miles away, it is a universe away in its political realities. The city has seen the same economic straits as most large cities in the country and yet at a time when everyone else is cutting back and trying to get by, the Chicago Teacher's Union, who have already been financially sated, wants more control with less accountability.

This crystallizes two of the major issues we face. The terrible state of our K-12 educational system and our out of control public sector unions.

Chicago has a 50% drop out rate; better than Los Angeles at 70%, but still what should be an insult to every teacher in each district.

Whether it is for gross misconduct by teachers or for regular evaluations and student testing, the union expects to remain unaccountable. In Chicago, standardized test results are destroyed almost immediately after the tests are scored. They have it down in Chicago. No Atlanta scandals there.

And at a time when the average salary in Chicago is $47,000/year and the city is running massive deficits, the disparity between results, compensation, and accountability in the school district is growing even larger.

The issue is national. In California, the unions own the state government as well as most of the largest cities. Across the country states and municipalities are running huge deficits and there is a massive pension crisis.

And Chicago perfectly summarizes the issue. This was an insider deal to begin with and now the union is pressing its advantage. They play rough in Chicago. It's not about the kids. It is about continuing to rob the taxpayers blind and give them as little as possible in return.

It is interesting to note that back in the 1990's our president was at the forefront of educational reform in Chicago and to note the lack of progress since. The Annenberg Challenge spent hundreds of millions of dollars and in the words of its own final report in 2003 achieved almost nothing.

Mayor Richard M. Daly took control of the School District in 1995 and put Arne Duncan, now U.S. Secretary of Education in charge, to no effect.

One of the obligations of local government is education. It is obvious that Chicago's school district and its teachers are failing in this responsibility. Their answer is to blame the system but it is their system. They did build it."

[Raider Ronnie]

"50% drop out rate"
Does is really make a difference if they even go back ?
Let them strike and never go back !
What is the drop out % in Boston ?

Originally Posted by scottw

this is great...

"Chicago's teachers have the highest average salary in the country at $76,000/year and according to the Mayor's office, the financial side of the $400 Million deal is done. 4%/year raises have been agreed to, taking them to $88,900/year by 2016.

The Mayor's office stated that:

"The two remaining stumbling blocks involve re-hiring laid off teachers from schools that get shut down or shaken up and a new teacher evaluation process that the union says puts far too much weight on student test scores."

So while 404,000 students are missing school, the real issues are accountability and union job protection.

Chicago is not really different from Wisconsin, but while it is only 90 miles away, it is a universe away in its political realities. The city has seen the same economic straits as most large cities in the country and yet at a time when everyone else is cutting back and trying to get by, the Chicago Teacher's Union, who have already been financially sated, wants more control with less accountability.

This crystallizes two of the major issues we face. The terrible state of our K-12 educational system and our out of control public sector unions.

Chicago has a 50% drop out rate; better than Los Angeles at 70%, but still what should be an insult to every teacher in each district.

Whether it is for gross misconduct by teachers or for regular evaluations and student testing, the union expects to remain unaccountable. In Chicago, standardized test results are destroyed almost immediately after the tests are scored. They have it down in Chicago. No Atlanta scandals there.

And at a time when the average salary in Chicago is $47,000/year and the city is running massive deficits, the disparity between results, compensation, and accountability in the school district is growing even larger.

The issue is national. In California, the unions own the state government as well as most of the largest cities. Across the country states and municipalities are running huge deficits and there is a massive pension crisis.

And Chicago perfectly summarizes the issue. This was an insider deal to begin with and now the union is pressing its advantage. They play rough in Chicago. It's not about the kids. It is about continuing to rob the taxpayers blind and give them as little as possible in return.

It is interesting to note that back in the 1990's our president was at the forefront of educational reform in Chicago and to note the lack of progress since. The Annenberg Challenge spent hundreds of millions of dollars and in the words of its own final report in 2003 achieved almost nothing.

Mayor Richard M. Daly took control of the School District in 1995 and put Arne Duncan, now U.S. Secretary of Education in charge, to no effect.

One of the obligations of local government is education. It is obvious that Chicago's school district and its teachers are failing in this responsibility. Their answer is to blame the system but it is their system. They did build it."

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Schools with kids who come in to kindergarten not reading continue to do poorly throughout their education. Kids in suburban schools come in to kindergarten doing well and continue on that path. The data comes out the same way from school to school across the country.

The resistance of unions to it is that the people who are trying to implement it are politicians, not statisticians. People who have no idea about variables, correlations, etc. Simpleton politicians can think it sounds good, but it doesn't make it good or effective or beneficial to education. Teachers in the suburbs will appear great and teachers in the cities will appear lousy.

The part about kids coming into school not being able to read is sad and in many cases a direct correlation to parenting (or lack thereof). My wife and I make it a point to read as much as we can to our kids. My oldest daughter just entered Kindergarten and she can read extremely well for her age. It’s not due to the town we live but how we raise our kids and what we try to instill in them. That is another topic of discussion.

I think that if statisticians vs politicians were trying to implement this, Teachers Unions would still fight it to the end. My opinion and I hope I'm wrong.