Time man of the year

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That explains our massive trade surplus, our record-low unemployment, and the resurgence of the US manufacturing structure, and all the new factories being built here!

Trade deficits are largely a function of domestic consumption. When the Bush economy was ballooning via credit we imported more, during the recession less. I'd think that as household discretionary spending increases in emerging markets the fact that much production for these goods is already overseas would benefit local producers faster.

Though, as we've discussed before, US manufacturing in many sectors is doing quite well, especially areas like heavy machinery and commercial aviation. The challenge is that factories are more productive via technology rather than people.

A global slowdown will hurt these US exports more than anything as the companies derive increasing % of revenues from emerging markets...the EU is pretty flat.

Remember, that new office park in Shanghai is probably being built with gear from Caterpillar.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Remember, that new office park in Shanghai is probably being built with gear from Caterpillar.

-spence

Spence, in these developing nations you speak of...office parks are going up, houses are being built, roads are being built, cars are being purchased. All of that requires energy, all of that increases the environmental footprint that mankind leaves on the planet.

Do you think that development is a good thing, or a bad thing?

You seem to be saying that development is good, even though it results in a huge increase in energy consumption. If that's OK with you, then why shouldn't we tap into the massive natural gas resources that we know we are sitting on? That would put Americans to work, right?

If energy exploitation is good in other countries (to support their development), why don't liberals support that same concept here?

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Remember, that new office park in Shanghai is probably being built with gear from Caterpillar.

-spence

Actually, it's probably not being built with gear from Caterpillar. Most likely, it's being built with equipment made by Sany or LiuGong (both Chinese) who both have much higher sales than Caterpillar in China.

Sometimes I wonder if you just say stuff and hope no one calls you out on it, or if you really are that dense? I'm pretty sure you're not that dense.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Sometimes I wonder if you just say stuff and hope no one calls you out on it, or if you really are that dense? I'm pretty sure you're not that dense.

Heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China and other emerging nations...that's not to say they don't have competition.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China and other emerging nations...that's not to say they don't have competition.

-spence

We'll leave other countries out of it because you specifically referred to China. Caterpillar has a very small market share in China. The Chinese companies are much more prevalent, and the Japanese companies have a greater market share than Caterpillar. Stop responding with your jibberish, vague, non-answers.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

We'll leave other countries out of it because you specifically referred to China. Caterpillar has a very small market share in China. The Chinese companies are much more prevalent, and the Japanese companies have a greater market share than Caterpillar. Stop responding with your jibberish, vague, non-answers.

I believe CAT has at least 12 manufacturing plants in China and over 8,000 employees. It represents a substantial part of their growth strategy.

These investments have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. The net is that any way you shake it, development in emerging markets has a big impact on the US economy...

Perhaps you should sub out your googling to ScottW

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe CAT has at least 12 manufacturing plants in China and over 8,000 employees. It represents a substantial part of their growth strategy.

These investments have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. The net is that any way you shake it, development in emerging markets has a big impact on the US economy...

-spence

Phew!! Glad you've finally put to rest that non-sense about "shipping jobs overseas", especially to China, costing Americans jobs. Those 8,000 jobs in Peoria instead of China would look really nice right about now. Of course, then, China wouldn't have bought the CAT stuff if it was made here because greedy, mean, right wing presidents wouldn't have forced them to. That's one of the reasons we voted for Obama, no? To stop jobs from being shipped overseas, and to make China trade "fairly" with us?

But all is well now, anyway, because CAT's "investments" in China will have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. After all, Obama will see to it that those investments are taxed at higher, fairer, rates, and that will create more "revenue" to distribute to unemployed and needy Americans.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Phew!! Glad you've finally put to rest that non-sense about "shipping jobs overseas", especially to China, costing Americans jobs. Those 8,000 jobs in Peoria instead of China would look really nice right about now. Of course, then, China wouldn't have bought the CAT stuff if it was made here because greedy, mean, right wing presidents wouldn't have forced them to. That's one of the reasons we voted for Obama, no? To stop jobs from being shipped overseas, and to make China trade "fairly" with us?

But all is well now, anyway, because CAT's "investments" in China will have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. After all, Obama will see to it that those investments are taxed at higher, fairer, rates, and that will create more "revenue" to distribute to unemployed and needy Americans.

Perhaps many of those jobs don't belong here.

They likely manufacture locally to be more responsive to the market, take advantage of local labor, local materials and perhaps more importantly avoid the costs associated with transport of heavy raw materials, finished product and extended supply chain and service components.

Yet, the profit from such ventures is sent to the USA where it can finance expansion and higher paying jobs at home that are the innovation engine of the company.

And Mitt Romney said he was going to get tough...with who again?

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Perhaps you should sub out your googling to ScottW

-spence

or just make it up as you go along.... like Spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

I believe CAT has at least 12 manufacturing plants in China and over 8,000 employees. It represents a substantial part of their growth strategy.

These investments have a big impact on jobs in Peoria. The net is that any way you shake it, development in emerging markets has a big impact on the US economy...

Perhaps you should sub out your googling to ScottW

-spence

Ok, Spence. This is comical, even for a post from you. You stated that the Chinese are likely using Caterpillar machines for their big construction projects. I pointed out that Caterpillar has a very small market share there as compared to the 2 large Chinese heavy equipment makers. Then you say that heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China, which in no way backs up your original statement. China does not buy a lot of US made equipment because they buy Chinese made equipment. Now you claim that US companies are building their equipment in China. You really have no clue. How does it go from China using a lot of American made heavy equipment to US companies building their equipment in China and sending it back here? And how's that benefiting the US? Wouldn't Peoria be better off if they kept all the jobs there?

Maybe you should have RIROCKHOUND's new baby do your googling for you. It's bound to be better than whatever you're doing.

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Ok, Spence. This is comical, even for a post from you. You stated that the Chinese are likely using Caterpillar machines for their big construction projects. I pointed out that Caterpillar has a very small market share there as compared to the 2 large Chinese heavy equipment makers. Then you say that heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China, which in no way backs up your original statement. China does not buy a lot of US made equipment because they buy Chinese made equipment. Now you claim that US companies are building their equipment in China. You really have no clue. How does it go from China using a lot of American made heavy equipment to US companies building their equipment in China and sending it back here? And how's that benefiting the US? Wouldn't Peoria be better off if they kept all the jobs there?

Maybe you should have RIROCKHOUND's new baby do your googling for you. It's bound to be better than whatever you're doing.

There are many companies that sell heavy equipment in China, some are Chinese, some are Korean, some are Japanese, some are American. That a company like CAT doesn't dominate the market is irrelevant to the point at hand unless you want to parse a single word to to make trouble.

Quite simply, assembly in China doesn't mean there aren't thousands and thousands more here in the US involved in design and planning.

Do you seriously lake the fundamentals of how a global manufacturing business operates? It sure sounds like you do.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Ok, Spence. This is comical, even for a post from you. You stated that the Chinese are likely using Caterpillar machines for their big construction projects. I pointed out that Caterpillar has a very small market share there as compared to the 2 large Chinese heavy equipment makers. Then you say that heavy equipment in the US sells a lot to China, which in no way backs up your original statement. China does not buy a lot of US made equipment because they buy Chinese made equipment. Now you claim that US companies are building their equipment in China. You really have no clue. How does it go from China using a lot of American made heavy equipment to US companies building their equipment in China and sending it back here? And how's that benefiting the US? Wouldn't Peoria be better off if they kept all the jobs there?

Maybe you should have RIROCKHOUND's new baby do your googling for you. It's bound to be better than whatever you're doing.

If I can respond on Spence's behalf...

You're an ignorantracisthatemongerbigotsexisthomophobeislamo phobeintoleranthatecrimes!

P.S. Suck on that