paycheck

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

For some perspective, while you all were enjoying that extra 2% you were also increasing the deficit.

First of all, let's get one thing straight... not a single person on this forum is "increasing the deficit". Not a single person on this forum decides that small bandaids on a budget that is hemorrhaging money is appropriate. Not a single person on this forum is having their pockets padded by Lobbyists.

At the end of the first year when I took the reins of the company I used to work for, revenue was down about 10% but this strange thing happened... profits were up. Crazy thing that I learned at a young age when it comes to budgeting - As a first step, it is significantly easier to find waste and reduce unneeded expenses than it is to increase revenue.

Now, with that in mind, I'd be perfectly fine with FICA going back to normal if it also meant during the time of the tax cut, politicians cut expenses. If we were working towards a more balanced budget, I'd actually be ok with the increase. However with the new plan, we have a tax increase *and* increased spending, with a net increase to the deficit.

And let's stop all the BS with "it's not a tax increase, it's back to where it was before." Doesn't matter. On December 31, we were all paying one rate and as of Jan 1 that rate is higher. It's an increase, whether it was an expiring cut or not.

Interestingly enough, Congress found it necessary to increase FICA back to where it was (excuse me, not "extend the temporary cut"), yet Obama felt as though the federal pay freeze needed to cease, through Executive Order. Must have felt Congress deserved it due to the extra time in session digging themselves out of their self-imposed "fiscal cliff". And with the continued expansion and extra work within the federal government due to inefficiencies by everyone involved, all federal employees definitely deserved the pay raise as well.

Been about 5 years since I saw a pay raise (quite a number of pay cuts in that time actually). Obama has declared that Congress, federal employees and the welfare class deserve pay increases, when will the Middle Class that he defended so much while campaigning get our pay increase??

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

First of all, let's get one thing straight... not a single person on this forum is "increasing the deficit". Not a single person on this forum decides that small bandaids on a budget that is hemorrhaging money is appropriate. Not a single person on this forum is having their pockets padded by Lobbyists.

Sure you were, you all were.

Without that extra 2% to be converted into securities the government had to borrow more money to cover obligations.

Everyone here voted for government representation that put these laws into place.

You my friend are guilty as charged.

At the end of the first year when I took the reins of the company I used to work for, revenue was down about 10% but this strange thing happened... profits were up. Crazy thing that I learned at a young age when it comes to budgeting - As a first step, it is significantly easier to find waste and reduce unneeded expenses than it is to increase revenue.

It can be easy to get many companies profitable by cutting expenses, but it also can damage the long-term health of a business or have a negative impact to employees. What happened to the profit your firm generated?

One of the drags on the global economy right now are the austerity measures taken in the EU. Spending has to be drawn down, if we cut back too fast we'll plunge right back into recession.

Now, with that in mind, I'd be perfectly fine with FICA going back to normal if it also meant during the time of the tax cut, politicians cut expenses. If we were working towards a more balanced budget, I'd actually be ok with the increase. However with the new plan, we have a tax increase *and* increased spending, with a net increase to the deficit.

I'm confident we'll see more this year.

And let's stop all the BS with "it's not a tax increase, it's back to where it was before." Doesn't matter. On December 31, we were all paying one rate and as of Jan 1 that rate is higher. It's an increase, whether it was an expiring cut or not.

Why all the outrage? I don't seem to remember anyone praising the Fed when their payroll contributions were temporarily lowered.

Interestingly enough, Congress found it necessary to increase FICA back to where it was (excuse me, not "extend the temporary cut"), yet Obama felt as though the federal pay freeze needed to cease, through Executive Order. Must have felt Congress deserved it due to the extra time in session digging themselves out of their self-imposed "fiscal cliff". And with the continued expansion and extra work within the federal government due to inefficiencies by everyone involved, all federal employees definitely deserved the pay raise as well.

Ending a 2-3 year pay freeze with a bump of .5 to 1%...not exactly a massive increase for those engaged in foreign service, our military etc...

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

Ending a 2-3 year pay freeze with a bump of .5 to 1%...not exactly a massive increase for those engaged in foreign service, our military etc...

-spence

Spence, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone in here arguing that the military doesn't deserve pay increases. I think JD is referrring to Congress voting themselves a pay increase. In most jobs, increases are comensurate with performance and the overall profitability of the company. Can Congress really argue that they deserved a raise based on their performance or the financial health of the country?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by fishbones

Spence, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone in here arguing that the military doesn't deserve pay increases. I think JD is referrring to Congress voting themselves a pay increase. In most jobs, increases are comensurate with performance and the overall profitability of the company. Can Congress really argue that they deserved a raise based on their performance or the financial health of the country?

Anybody in Fed Civil Service hasn't had a pay raise also, this was for them, unfortunately our Congress also counts in that space.
The Fed claims also to have shed 851K in full time jobs since 2008.

[spence]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Anybody in Fed Civil Service hasn't had a pay raise also, this was for them, unfortunately our Congress also counts in that space.
The Fed claims also to have shed 851K in full time jobs since 2008.

It's true according to the DOL.

-spence

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by spence

It's true according to the DOL.

-spence

Don't put a lot of stock in that. They manipulate data to come up with numbers that work in their favor. You need to look at BLS #s and if you can get your hands on it, total payroll numbers.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I think JD is referrring to Congress voting themselves a pay increase.

I don't think Congress voted themselves a pay raise.

-spence

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Everyone here voted for government representation that put these laws into place.

You my friend are guilty as charged.


-spence

No, not everone here voted for those who are responsible for putting whichever laws you're referring to in place. There were many votes against every member of Congress. And of those elected many were against laws that were passed.

The culprit is not primarily We the People who must vote between meeny, miney, and moe. It is those who have controlled the levers of power and used those machines to subvert their constitutional limitations. And by so doing have given themselves powers to legislate that were not given them by the Constitution. The Constitution, as written, does not give them the power legislate for the general welfare in the way they do. And whatever culpability we the voters have is mitigated by the nefarious means that leaves us choices that were never intended to be given. We were warned by the founders that once the people were given access to the public treasury, that would be the end of the Republic. They understood human cupidity, and created a form of government that would lessen the publics access to the people's treasury, and would even limit the Federal Government's ability to grow a treasury so massive as today's relative to the private sector. We the People, all of us including the many that protest against it, are saddled with a leviathan government that has enticed the ignorant into being its dependants, and rides herd on the rest. For blame, look more to those who decided that the Constitution was too restrictive, that the central government must be free to do what was meant for state and local governments and the people themselves were to do. And must be free to do it all without powerful checks and balances.

Stealing the treasure of freedom for tokens of dependency was the meanest con trick in our history.