I hope this happens soon

[tlapinski]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Cut back commercial take 33% from 2006 levels.

Cut rec to 1 per day (like 2006) and make C&R only in 2x 2week windows to be determined - say May7-May21 in NE, July 15-29 - Apr 15-30 in MidLant, Jul 7-21... Play with the dates / numbers some but have real closure - C&R only during effective windows - just tossing it out for discussion

Why a C&R only time frame? My quesiton being what do you do if you catch a bass in the C&R window that is obviously not going to survive. I seldom go out into the surf with the goal being to keep my limit of bass. However, if things happen and I have a deep hooked fish, spent fish from the fight, etc., then I have kept two fish in a night. When #2 goes on the stringer I call it a night and had to do so last season after landing back to back large fish, so the likelyhood of there being a real cow in front of me was pretty good. If that occurred in a C&R season I would be doing nothing but feeding crabs. A "better idea" is to have an all-out closed season if you are looking for a no-kill timeframe, but I am more against that than I am at modifying current regs.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

Why a C&R only time frame? My quesiton being what do you do if you catch a bass in the C&R window that is obviously not going to survive. I seldom go out into the surf with the goal being to keep my limit of bass. However, if things happen and I have a deep hooked fish, spent fish from the fight, etc., then I have kept two fish in a night. When #2 goes on the stringer I call it a night and had to do so last season after landing back to back large fish, so the likelyhood of there being a real cow in front of me was pretty good. If that occurred in a C&R season I would be doing nothing but feeding crabs. A "better idea" is to have an all-out closed season if you are looking for a no-kill timeframe, but I am more against that than I am at modifying current regs.

I am not sure what I think about a closed season, but from an ecological/fisheries viewpoint, the injured fish is no worse when fed to the crabs than in your freezer. A small percentage of fish would be returned wounded or dead, but it would still result in substantially fewer fish harvested, which is the goal of the closed season. I have the same emotional instinct that a fish is wasted when tossed back dead, but if thousands of other fish are returned alive because of the closed season, it is far and away a net positive for the population.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

Why a C&R only time frame? My quesiton being what do you do if you catch a bass in the C&R window that is obviously not going to survive. I seldom go out into the surf with the goal being to keep my limit of bass. However, if things happen and I have a deep hooked fish, spent fish from the fight, etc., then I have kept two fish in a night. When #2 goes on the stringer I call it a night and had to do so last season after landing back to back large fish, so the likelyhood of there being a real cow in front of me was pretty good. If that occurred in a C&R season I would be doing nothing but feeding crabs. A "better idea" is to have an all-out closed season if you are looking for a no-kill timeframe, but I am more against that than I am at modifying current regs.

Why a C&R? Because in order to get to have meaningful sufficient reductions in rec kill you need to have a either C&R or no fish during real parts of the season and I'd rather C&R then stay home - If you look at the 8% mortality rate on C&R (whether correct or not it is the baseline used) it would be better than a 100% mortality of taken fish plus the 8% of C&R fish during the same time. Maybe put a dent in the spring slaughters from NJ to CC

To have a closed season in January wouldn't make much sense so it needs to be a relevant time.

Personally, I think all groups need to take a strong hit on take/kill of striped bass. Anything else is a deck chair relocation program. in the end THAT may not be enough WRT Myco.

[tlapinski]

This is why I always kick myself for getting involved in these kinds of threads..

I look at how I fish and assume all others do the same. I pretty much always head out for a tide as a C&R fisherman (unless participating in a toruney), but I have the means at my disposal to harvest in the event that a fish I catch will not survive. I do everything in my power to prevent any wasteful kills, but if I know the fish is going to end up as crab food, onto the stringer she goes. Since I am already fishing under a self imposed C&R rule, making it illegal for me to harvest crab food, something I feel I am doing for the better good as Zimmy noted I have the same moral hang up never to wastefuly kill anything (above the 8% that are going to die anyway that I can not avoid unless I quit fishing all together), is somehting that I would have a very hard time getting behind.

Regarding slot limits, I have always been in favor of such limits so long as the sizes are purely based on scientific data and not random numbers. Protect the first two or three spawning opportunities, as well as the two most prolific spawning opportunities as based by scientific data, and/or allow for a trophy fish to be kept. This provides a fish for the table as well as a hunt for the next record fish. Limiting SB to only the small slot and no trophies will simply never happen as there is WAY too much money on the line for the big girls (tournaments, charters, tackle sales, endorsements, etc.).

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

This is why I always kick myself for getting involved in these kinds of threads..

I look at how I fish and assume all others do the same. I pretty much always head out for a tide as a C&R fisherman (unless participating in a toruney), but I have the means at my disposal to harvest in the event that a fish I catch will not survive. I do everything in my power to prevent any wasteful kills, but if I know the fish is going to end up as crab food, onto the stringer she goes. Since I am already fishing under a self imposed C&R rule, making it illegal for me to harvest crab food, something I feel I am doing for the better good as Zimmy noted I have the same moral hang up never to wastefuly kill anything (above the 8% that are going to die anyway that I can not avoid unless I quit fishing all together), is somehting that I would have a very hard time getting behind.

Regarding slot limits, I have always been in favor of such limits so long as the sizes are purely based on scientific data and not random numbers. Protect the first two or three spawning opportunities, as well as the two most prolific spawning opportunities as based by scientific data, and/or allow for a trophy fish to be kept. This provides a fish for the table as well as a hunt for the next record fish. Limiting SB to only the small slot and no trophies will simply never happen as there is WAY too much money on the line for the big girls (tournaments, charters, tackle sales, endorsements, etc.).

I only keep a couple per year myself and am 99.9% C&R but this has to be designed for all anglers.

I would be for a slot that makes sense but again, deck chair relocation program. Just something proper needs to be done before it is too late.

[big jay]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

Regarding slot limits, I have always been in favor of such limits so long as the sizes are purely based on scientific data and not random numbers. Protect the first two or three spawning opportunities, as well as the two most prolific spawning opportunities as based by scientific data, and/or allow for a trophy fish to be kept. This provides a fish for the table as well as a hunt for the next record fish. Limiting SB to only the small slot and no trophies will simply never happen as there is WAY too much money on the line for the big girls (tournaments, charters, tackle sales, endorsements, etc.).

That's a solid take on slot limits.

One of my biggest problems with Stripers Forever is that they continually advocate for a slot limit that targets pre-spawn fish.

How anyone can argue that killing fish that haven't even had the chance to spawn once is conservation, is asinine.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by big jay

That's a solid take on slot limits.

One of my biggest problems with Stripers Forever is that they continually advocate for a slot limit that targets pre-spawn fish.

How anyone can argue that killing fish that haven't even had the chance to spawn once is conservation, is asinine.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

We have different definitions of asinine.

The reasons are three fold (or four):
1. Larger fish have dramatically more eggs. One dead 40 incher is like killing three 28"ers.

2. When the slot is small, about 50% of the harvested fish are males.

3. A harvest that selects for bigger fish will result in smaller fish over time. It has been documented repeatedly in population studies.

4. (the weakest of the three) there is a portion of fisherman who only keep a fish because it is big and they want to show it to people, not because they want it for food. Some of those people aren't going to keep a 27"er since it is less likely to impress someone.

[JLH]

Originally Posted by zimmy

We have different definitions of asinine.

The reasons are three fold (or four):
1. Larger fish have dramatically more eggs. One dead 40 incher is like killing three 28"ers.

If you are concerned about the future of the fishery 3 28” fish have a lot more value than one 40” fish. The smaller fish will continue to grow and will spawn for many more years than a fish that is in the middle to end of its lifespan. The number of eggs the 3 smaller fish will contribute to the fishery over time is far greater than the one large fish. In my opinion the guys that are catching and releasing 30, 40 , 50+ schoolies are night are doing far more damage to the fishery than the guys that are out there hunting for big fish and keeping a handful of them a season.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JLH

If you are concerned about the future of the fishery 3 28” fish have a lot more value than one 40” fish. The smaller fish will continue to grow and will spawn for many more years than a fish that is in the middle to end of its lifespan. The number of eggs the 3 smaller fish will contribute to the fishery over time is far greater than the one large fish. In my opinion the guys that are catching and releasing 30, 40 , 50+ schoolies are night are doing far more damage to the fishery than the guys that are out there hunting for big fish and keeping a handful of them a season.

Do some studying on fisheries biology andand population dynamicsdynamics and see what you find. Let me know if you find data that supports your statement about smaller fish. I have never seen it. I have read a ton over the years.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

Nebe,the seals are not a problem along the inside of the cape,at least not until you get to long point.

[big jay]

Originally Posted by zimmy

We have different definitions of asinine.

The reasons are three fold (or four):
1. Larger fish have dramatically more eggs. One dead 40 incher is like killing three 28"ers.

2. When the slot is small, about 50% of the harvested fish are males.

3. A harvest that selects for bigger fish will result in smaller fish over time. It has been documented repeatedly in population studies.

4. (the weakest of the three) there is a portion of fisherman who only keep a fish because it is big and they want to show it to people, not because they want it for food. Some of those people aren't going to keep a 27"er since it is less likely to impress someone.

I'll give you 2 and 3 as reasonable points, but point #1 illustrates the ineffectiveness of SF's proposal.

Not only do they want to take pre-spawn fish, but their plan also includes taking +40" breeders.

The other problem is that a group of experienced fisherman often forget is that most people out there struggle to catch a "keeper" bass. But alot of these of these guys can get a schoolie or 3 - drop the size to 20" and mortality goes through the roof as all these people can now catch and kill a "keeper bass".

Look at what happened in Maine when they went with their slot - mortality skyrocketed, and their fishing went in the toilet.

I don't want to see a plan that failed miserably in 1 state get rolled out to all of New England and wreck everyone's fishing.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

This is why I always kick myself for getting involved in these kinds of threads..

I look at how I fish and assume all others do the same. I pretty much always head out for a tide as a C&R fisherman (unless participating in a toruney), but I have the means at my disposal to harvest in the event that a fish I catch will not survive. I do everything in my power to prevent any wasteful kills, but if I know the fish is going to end up as crab food, onto the stringer she goes. Since I am already fishing under a self imposed C&R rule, making it illegal for me to harvest crab food, something I feel I am doing for the better good as Zimmy noted I have the same moral hang up never to wastefuly kill anything (above the 8% that are going to die anyway that I can not avoid unless I quit fishing all together), is somehting that I would have a very hard time getting behind.

Regarding slot limits, I have always been in favor of such limits so long as the sizes are purely based on scientific data and not random numbers. Protect the first two or three spawning opportunities, as well as the two most prolific spawning opportunities as based by scientific data, and/or allow for a trophy fish to be kept. This provides a fish for the table as well as a hunt for the next record fish. Limiting SB to only the small slot and no trophies will simply never happen as there is WAY too much money on the line for the big girls (tournaments, charters, tackle sales, endorsements, etc.).

I think many fish the way you do. I always release just the way I am wired I am certain in my years of fishing some may not have survived the release just due to odds. But I know when they left my hands they shook on their own power.

After fishing the better part of two summers on the canal I can tell you there are people that take two a day every day if there is an opportunity to take two fish. I don't crap on em I don't begrudge them it is their legal right to do so.

However if the ASMFC proposes to reduce mortality in any sector I will support it. I know plenty of guys who will tell you til they are blue in the face how things should be. Not many are willing to actually do something about it.

The only hearings I have ever seen well
Attended were the Massachusetts
Hearings on the Stripers Forever bills.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device