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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi: |
09-19-2018, 10:21 AM
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#31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
What does this have to do with the Constitution?
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Senator Horino said we "need to believe" the accuser, which necessarily means we need to disbelieve Kavanaugh, and deny him a SCOTUS seat, without any due process.
She is saying we should punish Kavanaugh without any due process.
I'll ask you Spence, and have fun with this question...why is Senator Horino saying we "need to believe" Kavanaugh's accuser, but she isn't saying we need to believe Keith Ellison's accuser?
Why would anyone who feels this disqualifies Kavanaugh, not feel that Keith Ellison should step down? Both men have been accused of domestic violence against women. One gets a pass form the left, one is presumed guilty from the left. How come?
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09-19-2018, 10:29 AM
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#32
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Location: Georgetown MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
What does this have to do with the Constitution?
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"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury,..... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"
or we could "Just Believe Her"
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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09-19-2018, 10:29 AM
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#33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Paul, why do you suppose they didn't ask for the investigation then, in which case this would be behind us now?
prob. for some of the same reasons the Repubs. waited until the night before to release 17K?? pages of docs.
Now Paul, what do you think of Senator Horino, saying on TV that we "need to believe" Kavanaugh's accuser?
Politics - same as Hatch's statement.
Paul, why do you suppose that Senator Horino says we need to believe Kavanaugh';s accuser, but she's not saying we need to believe Keith Ellison's accuser? PoliticsThis kind of dirty fighting from the left is exactly why Trump got elected, and at times like this I thank God we have a POTUS who is more than wiling to take off the boxing gloves, and out on the brass knuckles, when his opponents do the same.
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Both parties do it but you are so blinded that you think 1 party does it more than the other.
Last edited by The Dad Fisherman; 09-19-2018 at 10:56 AM..
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09-19-2018, 10:40 AM
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#34
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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This is a Senate hearing, it is not a court of law.
Just like indictment vs impeachment are different so is the confirmation of a citizen to the Supreme Court.
Due process doesn't apply.
Is it political, absolutely and it always has been.
Is it dirtier than it used to be or just more public?
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09-19-2018, 10:49 AM
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#35
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Both parties do it but you are so blinded that you think 1 party does it more than the other.
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one party consistently takes it to all new levels of ick....
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09-19-2018, 10:50 AM
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#36
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Both parties do it but you are so blinded that you think 1 party does it more than the other.
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Both parties do it, no question. Even in the age of Trump, I see no comparison in frequency. But I know I'm biased.
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09-19-2018, 10:50 AM
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#37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury,..... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"
or we could "Just Believe Her"
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According to Horino, you "need to believe her". Or else...
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09-19-2018, 10:51 AM
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#38
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
This is a Senate hearing, it is not a court of law.
Just like indictment vs impeachment are different so is the confirmation of a citizen to the Supreme Court.
Due process doesn't apply.
Is it political, absolutely and it always has been.
Is it dirtier than it used to be or just more public?
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Can you answer my question about Keith Ellison?
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09-19-2018, 10:51 AM
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#39
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
What does this have to do with the Constitution?
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you are right...the Supreme Court has nothing to do with the Constitution
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09-19-2018, 10:53 AM
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#40
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Can you answer my question about Keith Ellison?
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who's he?
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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09-19-2018, 11:00 AM
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#41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
who's he?
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He is the vice chairman at the Democratic National Committee. And like Kavanaugh, he has been accused by a woman, of assault and domestic violence. And unlike Kavanaugh, no one on the left is concluding he's guilty and should be denied a job in public service.
Very similar circumstances between Ellison and Kavanaugh, very very different conclusions reached by most liberals. What do you think?
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09-19-2018, 11:01 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
Both parties do it but you are so blinded that you think 1 party does it more than the other.
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And sorry I didn't say it immediately, I respect your post (not the part calling me blind), it was uncommonly honest. Not uncommon for you, uncommon for all of us.
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09-19-2018, 11:02 AM
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#43
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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09-19-2018, 11:13 AM
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#44
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Senator Horino said we "need to believe" the accuser, which necessarily means we need to disbelieve Kavanaugh, and deny him a SCOTUS seat, without any due process.
She is saying we should punish Kavanaugh without any due process.
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He's not being charged in a criminal court, I'm not sure how due process really applies in a legal sense in this case. I do think it's fair to ensure the allegation is properly looked into now that it's out in the open.
Quote:
I'll ask you Spence, and have fun with this question...why is Senator Horino saying we "need to believe" Kavanaugh's accuser, but she isn't saying we need to believe Keith Ellison's accuser?
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I'm not aware of anyone asking her about Ellison.
Quote:
Why would anyone who feels this disqualifies Kavanaugh, not feel that Keith Ellison should step down? Both men have been accused of domestic violence against women. One gets a pass form the left, one is presumed guilty from the left. How come?
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I think one difference here is that Ellison's accuser has undercut her own credibility by changing her story, offering evidence but refusing to produce it etc...
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09-19-2018, 11:36 AM
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#45
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
He's not being charged in a criminal court, I'm not sure how due process really applies in a legal sense in this case. I do think it's fair to ensure the allegation is properly looked into now that it's out in the open.
I'm not aware of anyone asking her about Ellison.
I think one difference here is that Ellison's accuser has undercut her own credibility by changing her story, offering evidence but refusing to produce it etc...
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"I'm not aware of anyone asking her about Ellison."
Ahhhh, you dodging skills are second to none.
"Ellison's accuser has undercut her own credibility by changing her story"
Mrs Fords version that she is telling today, differs from what she told her therapist, so she is also apparently changing her story. She's having trouble remembering where and when it happened, isn't it possible she's misremembering the who as well? This is exactly why we have statutes of limitations.
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09-19-2018, 12:08 PM
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#46
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
Ask your wife
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I asked my wife and daughter.
No was their answer.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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09-19-2018, 12:24 PM
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#47
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Mrs Fords version that she is telling today, differs from what she told her therapist, so she is also apparently changing her story. She's having trouble remembering where and when it happened, isn't it possible she's misremembering the who as well? This is exactly why we have statutes of limitations.
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The only discrepancy I've seen is the number of people in the room which could have easily been a mistake by her therapist. As for her making a mistake on the assailant, that's what an investigation would be for. I don't think she would have come forward unless she personally was sure it was him.
In the Ellison case the initial allegation was actually made by her son which she eventually went along with. She's told the press multiple stories about a video that would prove her story and that she wouldn't give it to them anyway...it's all very strange.
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09-19-2018, 01:35 PM
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#48
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
The only discrepancy I've seen is the number of people in the room which could have easily been a mistake by her therapist. As for her making a mistake on the assailant, that's what an investigation would be for. I don't think she would have come forward unless she personally was sure it was him.
In the Ellison case the initial allegation was actually made by her son which she eventually went along with. She's told the press multiple stories about a video that would prove her story and that she wouldn't give it to them anyway...it's all very strange.
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"The only discrepancy I've seen is the number of people in the room which could have easily been a mistake by her therapist"
True, or it could be a mistake by her.
Spence, Kavanaugh's best ability to prove innocence, would be to show he was somewhere else at the time. How can he begin to do that, when the accuser can't specify the when and the where? There's literally no possible way to defend himself against this.
It's a morally disgusting tactic, but politically very shrewd. No one knows how to bring a gun to a knife fight, like a liberal.
Oh, OK, you don't believe Ellison's accuser because her story is strange. But nothing strange about sending a letter, telling the senate to hold onto it while the FBI is doing a background check, not mentioning it during 38 hours of questioning. Nah, that's normal, at least by current liberal standards.
If I was Trump, if there's another vacancy (please Ginsberg), I'd go out of my way to fill it with the person that the liberals would hate the most, someone who would make them beg Trump to re-nominate Kavanaugh.. "Ability to infuriate liberals", would be near the top of my list of attributes I'd look for.
Your side won big by fighting dirty against honorable men like McCain and Romney. They still haven't learned that Trump likes fighting dirty, and is better at it, than they are. They're lucky he's limited by separation of powers.
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09-19-2018, 03:01 PM
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#49
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: RI
Posts: 21,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Spence, Kavanaugh's best ability to prove innocence, would be to show he was somewhere else at the time. How can he begin to do that, when the accuser can't specify the when and the where? There's literally no possible way to defend himself against this.
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That's why you have professionals like the FBI conduct an investigation. They would interview her several times, see if her story changes, talk to others she went to school with, see if there's any corroborating evidence. They might find something or they may simply say there's not enough to form a conclusion.
But the standard here isn't the same as for a crime.
Quote:
It's a morally disgusting tactic, but politically very shrewd. No one knows how to bring a gun to a knife fight, like a liberal.
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I'd say usually it's just the opposite. Dems have a habit of asking "oops, did I hit you too hard?"
Quote:
Oh, OK, you don't believe Ellison's accuser because her story is strange.
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I think it's very strange that she says she has a video and text messages that prove her story but she can't find them or it would be too embarrassing. That doesn't pass the smell test with flying colors.
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But nothing strange about sending a letter, telling the senate to hold onto it while the FBI is doing a background check, not mentioning it during 38 hours of questioning. Nah, that's normal, at least by current liberal standards.
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My understanding is she didn't want the exposure, it wasn't until a staffer leaked that the memo existed that it was made public. Could be a ruse, no idea.
Quote:
If I was Trump, if there's another vacancy (please Ginsberg), I'd go out of my way to fill it with the person that the liberals would hate the most, someone who would make them beg Trump to re-nominate Kavanaugh.. "Ability to infuriate liberals", would be near the top of my list of attributes I'd look for
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This doesn't surprise me, sounds like a good basis for leadership.
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Your side won big by fighting dirty against honorable men like McCain and Romney. They still haven't learned that Trump likes fighting dirty, and is better at it, than they are. They're lucky he's limited by separation of powers.
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You continue to have a pretty jaundiced view of things. Also, it's better so say that "we're" lucky he's limited by separation of powers. We'll see how long even that lasts.
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09-19-2018, 03:05 PM
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#50
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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"They still haven't learned that Trump likes fighting dirty, and is better at it, than they are. They're lucky he's limited by separation of powers."
And that is my big concern, why did Trump go off the Federalist list and pick Kavanaugh? The biggest Washington insider
Trump doesn't want to take a chance on being indicted.
He'd just as soon be president for life like some of the people he admires and then have his children succeed him.
Of course you find an issue with the only Muslim in Congress, is he being appointed to a lifetime position also?
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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09-19-2018, 03:43 PM
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
"They still haven't learned that Trump likes fighting dirty, and is better at it, than they are. They're lucky he's limited by separation of powers."
And that is my big concern, why did Trump go off the Federalist list and pick Kavanaugh? The biggest Washington insider
Trump doesn't want to take a chance on being indicted.
He'd just as soon be president for life like some of the people he admires and then have his children succeed him.
Of course you find an issue with the only Muslim in Congress, is he being appointed to a lifetime position also?
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what muslim in congress are you talking about? keith ellison isn’t in congress. but it sounds like you’re saying it’s wrong to believe a man is guilty, if he’s a muslim? so kavanaugh usnoresumed guilty, but not ellison because
muslims get special treatment?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-19-2018, 04:33 PM
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#52
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,242
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So if this woman shows up with an envelope with a hair in it and claims it's kavanaugh's nothing will happen?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-19-2018, 05:07 PM
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#53
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Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence
I'd say usually it's just the opposite. Dems have a habit of asking "oops, did I hit you too hard?"
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Sure, sure. Just ask Brett Kavanaugh.
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09-19-2018, 05:57 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
So if this woman shows up with an envelope with a hair in it and claims it's kavanaugh's nothing will happen?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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I'm sure everyone will be like... "wow...you kept a hair in an envelope for 36 years...that's really impressive!"
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09-19-2018, 07:22 PM
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#55
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Super Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Georgetown MA
Posts: 18,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS
So if this woman shows up with an envelope with a hair in it and claims it's kavanaugh's nothing will happen?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Straight or a “Curly”?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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"If you're arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."
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09-19-2018, 07:37 PM
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#56
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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I asked a friend of mine who went to Georgetown
He said what happens in Georgetown stays in Georgetown and👎🏽
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-19-2018, 08:31 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
I asked a friend of mine who went to Georgetown
He said what happens in Georgetown stays in Georgetown and👎🏽
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Thanks for the insight
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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09-19-2018, 09:44 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Hilary Clinton, who went on national TV and slut shamed her husbands victims ( called them looney tunes) was on manbc last night, telling the country ( well, at least telling the 14 viewers), that we all must show compassion and empathy to the victims of sexual assault. Naturally the host wasn’t about to mention the irony.
The liberal descent into total madness, is just about complete. They are truly unhinged.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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09-19-2018, 10:38 PM
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#59
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Canceled
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 13,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT
Hilary Clinton, who went on national TV and slut shamed her husbands victims ( called them looney tunes) was on manbc last night, telling the country ( well, at least telling the 14 viewers), that we all must show compassion and empathy to the victims of sexual assault. Naturally the host wasn’t about to mention the irony.
The liberal descent into total madness, is just about complete. They are truly unhinged.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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So apparently 13 other people besides you watched?
Some are concerned about the Trumplicans total submission while claiming we don’t really think it’s ok and don’t agree with everything but who’s gonna miss out on great head? We’re Getting what we want, so what if it’s ugly.
The morning will come sooner or later and you’ll be wishing you had chewed your arm off.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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Frasier: Niles, I’ve just had the most marvelous idea for a website! People will post their opinions, cheeky bon mots, and insights, and others will reply in kind!
Niles: You have met “people”, haven’t you?
Lets Go Darwin
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09-20-2018, 05:50 AM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete F.
So apparently 13 other people besides you watched?
Some are concerned about the Trumplicans total submission while claiming we don’t really think it’s ok and don’t agree with everything but who’s gonna miss out on great head? We’re Getting what we want, so what if it’s ugly.
The morning will come sooner or later and you’ll be wishing you had chewed your arm off.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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i see you said absolutely nothing, about the irony i pointed out. when did hilary become concerned with victims is sexual assaults? Because she showed no such concern when she used her pulpit to attack her husbands victims, and there was dna evidence to show he was guilty, not just a witch hunt as might be the case here.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
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