Immigration hysteria

[Pete F.]

Spence don't you know that Jim got the memo

Ronna McDaniel
✔
@GOPChairwoman
Complacency is our enemy. Anyone that does not embrace the @realDonaldTrump agenda of making America great again will be making a mistake.

9:22 PM - Jun 13, 2018
6,857
30.3K people are talking about this

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

One used the children as pawns admittedly for political reasons, claimed they had no choice, that others were making them do it and then said: Oh we can save the children with an executive order, look what I did, hooray for me.

I see...so it's not the act of separating families that's bad, it's the motive behind it. Naturally, according to you, Trump has a sinister motive and Obama had a humanitarian motive.

How does the motive of the sitting President, thousands of miles away, effect the trauma that the child goes through, when removed from his parents?

See, I keep hearing about how bad it is for kids to be separated from their parents - period. Unlike you, I'm not smart enough to know that being pulled from your parents, is only traumatic for a toddler, if the sitting president has sleazy motives.

Pete, just say it...just say publicly, "I can never criticize Obama, and I can never compliment Trump". we all know it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Spence don't you know that Jim got the memo

Ronna McDaniel
✔
@GOPChairwoman
Complacency is our enemy. Anyone that does not embrace the @realDonaldTrump agenda of making America great again will be making a mistake.

9:22 PM - Jun 13, 2018
6,857
30.3K people are talking about this

Right, because I never criticize Trump.

[DZ]

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.

[scottw]

just when you think they couldn't get any crazier the left goes full whacko...funny/sad...trump brings out the best/worst in them...hope the can survive the both terms

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by spence

"Crimes" Jim. Being in the country illegally isn't a crime. There were other criteria being used to prioritize deportations as your article describes.

Oh FFS, the fact they are here illegally makes it a crime. That's literally what the word Illegal refers to

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/Submit
adjective
1.
contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
"illegal drugs"
synonyms: unlawful, illicit, illegitimate, criminal, felonious;

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Oh FFS, the fact they are here illegally makes it a crime. That's literally what the word Illegal refers to

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/Submit
adjective
1.
contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
"illegal drugs"
synonyms: unlawful, illicit, illegitimate, criminal, felonious;

they refuse to recognize the difference anymore...

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by DZ

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.

No, Dennis it is not that Trump has never done anything good. It is that the things he is successful at he almost always claims to be some superlative or another, i.e. the greatest, most ever, whatever and that makes it hard to agree.
You've fished with guys like that haven't you? Sometimes they even catch a fish.
Justifying the present by looking at the past is never a good idea.
If we want to look at what former presidents did perhaps Herbert Hoover might be a good one to look at and see what he did with the Mexican Repatriation. It's not as bad as that.

[spence]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Oh FFS, the fact they are here illegally makes it a crime. That's literally what the word Illegal refers to

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/Submit
adjective
1.
contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
"illegal drugs"
synonyms: unlawful, illicit, illegitimate, criminal, felonious;

A civil violation is contrary to or forbidden by law. Makes it illegal doesn't make it crime. It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

IT IS ALL WRONG!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/polit...nal/index.html


Under federal law, it is a crime for ANYONE to enter into the US without the approval of an immigration officer.....

....roughly 45% of undocumented immigrants originally entered the US legally, but then remained in the country without authorization after their visas had expired. The penalty for this type of violation of immigration law is DEPORTATION, and according to the ACLU.

If, however, an undocumented immigrant is deported and then returns to the US without permission, then that "illegal re-entry" constitutes a FEDERAL OFFENSE with different tiers of accompanying prison time.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

they refuse to recognize the difference anymore...

And this is the singular issue that got him elected. The liberals still haven't learned, they aren't capable of learning, that they are on the losing side of this issue in much of the country. All they see is future reliable votes and a chance to turn TX blue.

I want better conditions for these people. I also want a wall, for the same exact reason why we all lock our doors at night. Easy to be in favor of open borders in New England, but our fellow citizens who live along the border, are entitled to a sense of security as well.

Trump may come out of this, as usual, looking like the winner, he can claim that he inherited this policy (or at least the foundations of it) in laws passed by previous administrations, and he, unlike Obama, cared enough to stop it. Maybe that was his plan all along, he's capable of that.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

IT IS ALL WRONG!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/polit...nal/index.html


Under federal law, it is a crime for ANYONE to enter into the US without the approval of an immigration officer.....

....roughly 45% of undocumented immigrants originally entered the US legally, but then remained in the country without authorization after their visas had expired. The penalty for this type of violation of immigration law is DEPORTATION, and according to the ACLU.

If, however, an undocumented immigrant is deported and then returns to the US without permission, then that "illegal re-entry" constitutes a FEDERAL OFFENSE with different tiers of accompanying prison time.

That's not Reeeeaaaalllyyyyyyyyyy what it means. you're just taking it out of context.

read it again

That's not what it says

RACIST!!!

(just thought I'd get ahead of the game and save a page or so worth of posts)

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That's not Reeeeaaaalllyyyyyyyyyy what it means. you're just taking it out of context.

read it again

That's not what it says

RACIST!!!

(just thought I'd get ahead of the game and save a page or so worth of posts)

funny that the CNN conclusion after all that is....." being here illegally may not necessarily be a crime".....that's like saying robbing a bank is a crime but spending the money you stole from the bank may not necessarily be a crime....

[PaulS]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factch...JJE?li=BBnb7Kz


Did the Obama Administration Separate Families?

In defending its “zero tolerance” border policy that has caused the separation of families, the Trump administration has argued that the Obama and Bush administrations did this too. That’s misleading. Experts say there were some separations under previous administrations, but no blanket policy to prosecute parents and, therefore, separate them from their children.

“Bush and Obama did not have policies that resulted in the mass separation of parents and children like we’re seeing under the current administration,” Sarah Pierce, a policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute, told us.

Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said at a June 18 press briefing: “The Obama administration, the Bush administration all separated families. … They did — their rate was less than ours, but they absolutely did do this. This is not new.”

Nielsen went on to explain that there is indeed something new, as we wrote in another article on this topic. Under a “zero tolerance policy” on illegal immigration announced by Attorney General Jeff Sessions in early April, the administration is now referring all illegal border crossings for criminal prosecution. By doing that, parents have been separated from their children, because children can’t be held in detention facilities for adults.

DHS told us that 2,342 children were separated from their parents between May 5 and June 9.

But DHS couldn’t provide any statistics on how many children may have been separated from their parents under the Obama administration.

Instead, when we asked, it pointed to numbers that show 21 percent of apprehended adults were referred for prosecution under President Barack Obama. From fiscal year 2010 to fiscal 2016, there were 2,362,966 adults apprehended illegally crossing the Southern border, and 492,970 were referred for prosecution, those figures show. But that doesn’t tell us anything about how many children may have been separated from their parents under Obama.

And we don’t have such statistics to compare the past to the present.

“We have not seen any data out of the current or prior administration on how many cases that were prosecuted were individuals who arrived with minors,” Theresa Cardinal Brown, director of immigration and cross-border policy at the Bipartisan Policy Center, told us in an email. “So we cannot make any guesses or assumptions about how many separations based on prosecution there were or are.”

Brown said that even though DHS says 2,342 children have been separated from their parents in about one month, we don’t know what percentage of those cases are due to prosecutions for illegal crossings, and how many are due to other policies that would require separations — such as suspicion of trafficking, another outstanding warrant or insufficient proof of a family relationship.

We asked DHS if it would provide such a breakdown, but we haven’t received a response.

MPI’s Pierce said that the likely reason data aren’t available on child separations under previous administrations is because it was done in “really limited circumstances” such as suspicion of trafficking or other fraud.

“Previous administrations used family detention facilities, allowing the whole family to stay together while awaiting their deportation case in immigration court, or alternatives to detention, which required families to be tracked but released from custody to await their court date,” Brown and her co-author, Tim O’Shea, wrote in an explainer piece for the Bipartisan Policy Center’s website. “Some children may have been separated from the adults they entered with, in cases where the family relationship could not be established, child trafficking was suspected, or there were not sufficient family detention facilities available. … However, the zero-tolerance policy is the first time that a policy resulting in separation is being applied across the board.”

Jeh Johnson, DHS secretary under the Obama administration, told NPR earlier this month that he couldn’t say that family separations “never happened” during his tenure. “There may have been some exigent situation, some emergency. There may have been some doubt about whether the adult accompanying the child was in fact the parent of the child. I can’t say it never happened but not as a matter of policy or practice. It’s not something that I could ask our Border Patrol or our immigration enforcement personnel to do,” Johnson said.

The Obama administration faced a surge of unaccompanied children from Central America trying to cross the border in 2014. Cecilia Muñoz, director of the Obama administration’s Domestic Policy Council, told the New York Times this month that a multi-agency team was considering “every possible idea” at the time, including separating families. “I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea,” the Times quoted Muñoz saying. “The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.”

Brown told us that while the Obama administration “did separate some families,” it also tried to detain families together. In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. That ruling confirmed that a 1997 settlement applied to both unaccompanied and accompanied minors, as we’ve explained before.

“At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.”

On June 20, President Donald Trump signed an executive order directing Nielsen to keep families in custody together “during the pendency of any criminal improper entry or immigration proceedings involving their members” at least “to the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations.”

[scottw]

yawn....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

read it again

That's not what it says


(just thought I'd get ahead of the game and save a page or so worth of posts)

it's pretty interesting reading...

title- "Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily"

conclusion- "So although there are more than 11 million unauthorized immigrants living in the US, they haven't all committed a crime just by being in the country."

if you came on a work visa...you were "documented"....if you snuck across the border...you were not "documented"....if you overstay your visa you are up for deportation...if you snuck across the border I guess you just get to stay

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

funny that the CNN conclusion after all that is....." being here illegally may not necessarily be a crime".....that's like saying robbing a bank is a crime but spending the money you stole from the bank may not necessarily be a crime....

That’s what the law says...sorry. You guys should read it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by DZ

This has very little to do with immigration - just look at what the usual suspects are posting here. Seems like the vast majority of threads here are started by right leaning folks - I guess the usual suspects?Just anti-administration rhetoric to anything that happens even if Trump does what they wanted him to do. So if the vast majoriy of threads are started by right leaning folks, I guess you'd prefer no one to have an opposing view. He caved and signed the EO and now they hate it. Sorry but it's hard to take your views seriously if you've never once approved of or given credit to something that this administration has done. There is no satisfying a "resistor" and many of us accept that fact.

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

How about why some people can’t fact check anything they post?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Pete F.]

Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?
Not that a blatant lie should upset anyone.
Is he confusing them with Libertarians?
https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?
Not that a blatant lie should upset anyone.
Is he confusing them with Libertarians?
https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

BC lying is at the core of his soul. that is who he is.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I know, look at all these Right leaning kooks that keep starting threads.

Spence is right, we should spend more time fact checking.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Why does Trump keep claiming that Democrats in whole or part want open borders?

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

hello.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post

It's not a crime to be in the US as an undocumented immigrant.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I know, look at all these Right leaning kooks that keep starting threads.

Spence is right, we should spend more time fact checking.

Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning? radical centrist

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?

"vast right wing conspiracy majority"

[DZ]

Originally Posted by PaulS

If I couldn't stand to read 2 sides to an arguement, I wouldn't come here.

We prob. should go back to the really important stuff that used to be discussed here - if brown suits where inappropriate for the WH or putting someone's shoes on a desk was wrong.

Not what I meant - Other points of view are important and I want to read them. But as a general rule I find that Jim, myself, and others with more conservative views tend to be more understanding of the liberal side views than vice versa. I just can't recall anyone here who is left leaning ever commend an action by the current administration. My father always told me there will always be people "Who would complain if they were hung with a brand new rope", it kind of reminds me of the anti-Trump movement. I just find that many of you will not give the current president or administration a fair shake.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?

Page 2

30 posts total

15 started by the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s
9 Started by the Wingnuts
4 Started by the Radical Centrists
2 Started by the Dangles Party (equal opportunity Ball Buster)

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Well, going up against a zero tolerance policy is backing yourself and your kids into a corner. Not joining forces with the majority of people in your country in order to stop being oppressed by your government or your criminals is surely backing yourself into a corner. Expecting the rest of the world to fix your problems is backing yourself into a corner. Not seeking asylum in the first country you enter after exiting yours (into Mexico from rest of Latin America), breaking the asylum law, is backing yourself into a corner.

Joining millions to illegally enter a country, expecting open loving arms and the gift of education, healthcare, income, at the expense of that countries citizens, while refusing to join together with those millions to make a better life in your home country is not only backing yourself into a corner, but is depriving the rest of your fellow citizens whom you leave behind from creating a better life for all.

As you say, facts matter.

you do live in a fantasy world .... and act as if this immigration thing started yesterday

joining forces with the majority of people in your country in order to stop being oppressed by your government or your criminals..... Expecting the rest of the world to fix your problems refusing to join together with those millions to make a better life in your home country

Funny you use the same verbiage to describe the US Government

[JohnR]

Remember Conservatives (Dem and Rep) want you to think things through and maybe see the light, and if not Ohhh Well. Hard Left requires your complete submission physically and mentally.

Originally Posted by PaulS

Look at the rest of the front page. Or the 2nd page. JohnR isn't right leaning?

I didn't use the word kooks - you did. I did say "vast majority". Is that what bothered you enough to reply?

I have generally been a middle road more conservative Dem but those don't exist anymore so I am now the Radical Independent ; )


I even ever-so-briefly dipped a toe into maybe going progressive as some of my friends had until I saw the landscape and said eff that, all y'all are effing nuts ; )

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Page 2

30 posts total

15 started by the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s
9 Started by the Wingnuts
4 Started by the Radical Centrists
2 Started by the Dangles Party (equal opportunity Ball Buster)

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Page 2

30 posts total

15 started by the #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s
9 Started by the Wingnuts
4 Started by the Radical Centrists
2 Started by the Dangles Party (equal opportunity Ball Buster)

DANGLES for PRESIDENT!