republican convention...

[RIJIMMY]

Oh Spence, you crack me up. Did you see my posting on Ed Koch and Pres. Bush?
There have been plenty of points outlined by the repubs at the convention. Did you hear Giulani? How many prominent Dems are supporting Bush?
Eben, I don’t love Bush, may not even like him, but as I said over and over. I am employed, I feel the country is safer, I believe the US needs an aggressive military, I don’t care if other countries don’t like us. I don’t this we need a change. That’s why I support Bush.

As far as the Arab world’s view of us, here is an interesting story. I saw an interview of an Al-jazeera reporter on PBS. She was talking about the Abu Gharab prison scandal. She said the US is unaware of some of the downstream effects of this. Arabs know that prison abuse exists all over the Middle East, but, Al-jazerra broadcast 3 hours of the congressional panel looking into the scandal. Arabs saw Rumsfeld getting hammered with questions. They saw that in the US, people in high positions are ACOUNTABLE. They have NEVER seen anything like that before. They have never seen Middle East leaders have to explain their actions. What they witnessed was a little thing called Democracy.

[KLMulder]

Question.

Why do you love Kerry so much?

Do you realy like Kerry OR are you from the Defeat Bush camp?

If you think Kerry will defend this country look at his record, it is there for the world to see so take a look, don't just take someone's word on it go look France did and they love him.

[DRMatus]

I'd like to know how some of you republicans feel about the whole Swift Boat thing, because technically it trashes on half the armed forces.

To clarify this issue, purple hearts cannot be awarded for broken ankles received in the course of a basketball game. They must be awarded for injuries that were the direct result of hostile action by the enemy.
The issue with Kerry is this. There has been some questioning of whether he qualified for some of his purple hearts. I see two issues with Kerry's purple hearts. First, he put himself in for atleast one of the purple hearts, which is okay, but when there is a policy that three of them gets you an early out, it seems like it deserves a bit of scrutiny, especially since he chose to tout his 3 purple hearts as an accomplishment.
I will also point out again that he tossed those medals (whether they were his personally is irrelevant) away like trash in an effort to make some kind of public statement.
For what its worth, there is no policy that allows you to get out of Iraq with 3 purple hearts.
Remember the real issue is what Kerry did when he returned from Vietnam, not while he was there.

[Navy Chief]

Spence

I thought about replying line for line like you did. But your going to vote for John Kerry irregardless. That's the beautiful thing about our country.

I will, however, respond to the morality issue. I don't believe or endorse in legislating or imposing morality on anyone. I don't care if Kerry is a budist or a satan worshiper. My point is that his stance on the issues indicates that he is a hypocrite to his own beliefs. That, I cannot tolerate from anyone.

I was over there for 8 months. There where about 400 warships in that lake. Germany, Netherlands, British, Sweden, Norway, Japanese, Denmark, Australia and all the Gulf countries except Saudi. You know, the french navy even gave us fuel (what's up with that?). Looked like a pretty good coalition from my binoculars.

["uffah!!"]

NEED WE BUSH SUPPORTERS SAY ANYMORE??

[green meanie]

well i am happy bush let the AWB sunset!
i dont need anyone telling me what guns i can own period!

[Nebe]

I think were headed down the wrong road....


Semper Fi

[Bliz]

I met an elderly couple on a cruise who said it all when it comes to liberals and conservatives...

They put it this way...

"If you're in your 20's or early 30's... and you're not a liberal, they say you have no heart!"...

"If you're in your mid 30's and older and you're not a conservative, they say you have no brains!"...

How true!

[mrmacey]

[Skip N]

"If you're in your 20's or early 30's... and you're not a liberal, they say you have no heart!"...


So i have no heart then aye? Well then again that meens im smart for my age That meens John Kerry is still a dumb ass if we take the old folks advice! maybe they're on to something!

[Skip N]

I think were headed down the wrong road....

I think your wrong! A safer america with less terroists is heading down the wrong road? Geeze.....thats scary thinking. Lets go back to the good old days and wait to be attacked again. That aint gonna happen with W in office. Take them out before they get us again....sounds like a good plan to me

[Skip N]

According to John Kerry in his speach late tonight the Red Sox also pulled to within 2 1/2 games of the Yankess! Ummm no John....its still 3 1/2 games my friend But because john kerry said that does that meen it must be true?! Next time John tell me the sox won the world series and maybe Ill vote for ya!

[Bliz]

Not much of a choice either way in this election...

I'm much more afraid of our government dissolving our constitutional rights than I am of terrorists!

I think that the media has created new "Boogie Men" since 9/11...

And people are lining up to give away their rights in the name of "peace & safety"...

There isn't much Patriotism in the Patriot Act... socialism is more like it...

And the thought of Kerry as president gives me the willies even moreso!... He is more wooden than Al Gore is!

I am all for the defense of our Nation, but I'm not for the dissolution of our Constitution...

We need new choices...

[The Dad Fisherman]

Powell/McCain in '08

[Nebe]

I'm with you Bliz... the constitition has to be upheld.
Skip... dont forget that the more we meddle in other countries, the more terrorists we are gong to create.. President Bush even said it the other day that this war was un-winnable..he then back tracked to save his ass and say that there was no generals to surrender to us...
The facts are this my friend.. There are a couple of countries out there that really have weapons of mass destruction pointed right at us.. theres Iran who is building up nuclear technology right now.. Iraq had nothinhg.... no WMD's were found and Bush and Company fooled all of you to think that Saddam was going to attack us! First they tried to say Iraq was behind 9/11.. that didnt work, then they said Iraq supported Al Queda.. that prooved false... The fact of the matter is this .... Wolfowitz had this Iraq Invasion planned out while Clinton was still in Office..... they were just waiting for the right time to do it.. Bush has had a hard on to take out Sadam since he tried to assassanate ol Bush Sr... he even admitted it. The facts are this, The war on terrorisim is one thing and Iraq is another. Bush misled the amreican people to go there.. its prooven. The problem is that so many americans are so effected by sept 11th that they automaticly associate Iraq with Osama'a attack... Thats Bogus, and I agree with the French.. We shouldnt have attacked Iraq because we were 'scared' of them..
Me, I'd rather focus on making america strong...I'd rather focus on our economy, than to rebuild someone elses... Bush id pushing to take more jobs out of america to companies can make more $$ so the rich stockholders will make more $$ and he's forgetting about the people out there who are loosing their jobs...

[bart]

here's one question for the republicans to think about that doesn't have anything to do with terrorism or Iraq....

how can you support a president that shows such blatant disregard for the oceans we all fish and the lands we all hunt, just to keep his corporate buddies happy?

another point-- if president bush is such a great leader in fighting terrorism, how come there was no mention of Osama in his convention speech?

and one last thing--does anyone know statistics for the likely-hood of being killed in a terrorist attack? this is in no way meant to disrespect the victims of these unfortunate tragedies, just something to think of....

and RIJimmy, i don't think Al Jazeera deserves any recognition. they have become the terrorist's media outlet for public executions...

[RIJIMMY]

Originally posted by bart
here's one question for the republicans to think about that doesn't have anything to do with terrorism or Iraq....

Bart, this is 3 questions

how can you support a president that shows such blatant disregard for the oceans we all fish and the lands we all hunt, just to keep his corporate buddies happy?

- please provide specifics instead of blah, blah. I want cold hard fact to support your claim.

another point-- if president bush is such a great leader in fighting terrorism, how come there was no mention of Osama in his convention speech?

- not sure, but I dont view Osama as the only terrorist front. I think we are doing all we can to find him, what would you like to hear? Becasue he did not mention him means he is not a great leader?

and one last thing--does anyone know statistics for the likely-hood of being killed in a terrorist attack? this is in no way meant to disrespect the victims of these unfortunate tragedies, just something to think of....

- hmmm, over 80 people in my last company died. My sister and brother in law both worked at the trade center for years, luckily not on 9/11. Why are so many people against having a liquid gas plant near them? Why do they screen me before I get on a plane?
It is the constitutional duty of the President to protect US citizens.


and RIJimmy, i don't think Al Jazeera deserves any recognition. they have become the terrorist's media outlet for public executions...

- But you Kerry suppoters keep talking about the Arab view of the US. That view is defined by Al-Jazzera, there may be some positive coming out of that outlet that you don't consider. The average Arab citizen is not happy to see innocent people killed on TV. That refelcts poorly on our enemy, not us.


- my answers embeded above
Eben, you keep talking about the "poor" worker. I listened to the labor secretary on the statistics, the current unemployment rate is less that the average rate of the 70s,80s, and 90s. So, although the Dems would lead you to beleive otherwise, its not soe bad. Bush took office after the most articfically inflated economy in history. There was no substance to back up much of the growth of the 90s. A decline is the economy and jobs is expected

[zacs]

how can you support a president that shows such blatant disregard for the oceans we all fish and the lands we all hunt, just to keep his corporate buddies happy?

Amen to that.

Here is my question for the group. What exactly does Iraq have to do with our safety here in the USA? I don't get it? I am more worried about that idiot in N. Korea. He actually has nukes.....but no oil?

Another question. Why is everyone so gung ho that GWB is going to protect us from the bad guys. When it was his term to serve where was he? Kerry was in 'nam and saw the attrocities(sp?) and felt it was wrong. Is that bad? He practiced his freedom of speech along millions of other people. What is wrong with that? Why do my firends have to die to liberate Iraq? I don't get it.

I don't know if Kerry is the right guy for the job. But I think that its worth a shot 'cause I don't see that GWB has done anything to fix things over the past 4 years other than spend all of the countries money on Iraq.

Please give me reasons to think otherwise. I can be persuaded if the argument is logical.

If you just like GWB because you think your taxes will be lower and you don't want to have the government funding all of these "liberal programs?" How do you think we are going to pay for this war? I'd rather spend my money on helping a poor child get a nutritious meal, a warm place to stay, and a good education. Call me crazy.

_Z_

[RIJIMMY]

Zacs, I dont have the energy anymore.

[spence]

Zacs, that means you win

[KLMulder]

Kerry DID NOT SEE anthing in Nam, If you read his testamonie he said he was told about them by others after he came back from Nam.

My father WAS there for 2 tours, 2 full tours and he said to me the other day "we would all be better off if someone would have shot that SOB before he left"

KL

[Bliz]

I wouldn't worry much...

I think that this ticket has already been sewn up...

There will be four more years under our current administration.

[spence]

Originally posted by KLMulder
Kerry DID NOT SEE anthing in Nam, If you read his testamonie he said he was told about them by others after he came back from Nam.

My father WAS there for 2 tours, 2 full tours and he said to me the other day "we would all be better off if someone would have shot that SOB before he left"

KL

Didn't see anything? Hell he said he participated in some!

I understand why some vets are still ticked at Kerry, but it's really time to get on with it. The man volunteered twice for service, and had the passion to speak out against what he felt was wrong.

How many vets returned from Vietnam and turned to booze, drugs, suicide etc...? Kerry reacted to the times in his own way.

Hey Mulder, when you going to teach me how to fish one of my plugs?

-spence

[KLMulder]

This is what I love, you can disagree with someone and still go fishing together and have some fun. Spence anytime you want to hook up let me know, as long as the wife will let me out of the house I'll be there. If you fish half as well as you finish you plugs you will do well very well.

I have read his congressional testimony and he NEVER said that he participated, unless I missed something. If he did he should have been tried for war crimes plain and simple.

Personally I could care less what he did or did not do in Nam, I could care less what he said or did not say when he came home. I do care about what he has done in office and what he IS saying now. His voting record is there for all the world to see so take a look at it you will be surprised at what you find out about him. Also the midnight speech IMHO was petty, again IMHO. He did lie, stretch the truth what ever you want to call it when he said that the VP said he was unfit, the VP's speech is also on public record and he said no such thing.

Personally I think this campaign has been a mud fest from both sides, some is true and needed to be brought to the public's attn and some is not.

Rember that we do not live in a democracy, we live in a representative republic. That is how the founding fathers set up the government and that is how it should be.

[spence]

Originally posted by KLMulder
[B]This is what I love, you can disagree with someone and still go fishing together and have some fun. Spence anytime you want to hook up let me know, as long as the wife will let me out of the house I'll be there. If you fish half as well as you finish you plugs you will do well very well.

Ha! Wait till you see me fish. You won't be able to wash the skunk off for weeks

I have read his congressional testimony and he NEVER said that he participated, unless I missed something. If he did he should have been tried for war crimes plain and simple.

In the 1971 litany he was reporting what others had told him, but in the Cavet debate with O'Niel (if I remember correctly) he admitted to using approved tactics that He later found out were aginst International Law. Of course his detractors are calling him a war criminal over this. That's the problem when you send an intellectual to battle, too much honesty

His voting record is there for all the world to see so take a look at it you will be surprised at what you find out about him.

What's suprising is how much the Bush Admin has completely taken out of context and how the media is just waking up to this. The characterizations that Kerry's the most liberal member of the Senate and that He's been soft on defense spending are both simply not true. I haven't seen these many facts misrepresented since Powell was in front of the United Nations

Also the midnight speech IMHO was petty, again IMHO. He did lie, stretch the truth what ever you want to call it when he said that the VP said he was unfit, the VP's speech is also on public record and he said no such thing.

While it's true Cheney never used the word "unfit", it's also true that Bush never used the word"urgent threat" to describe Iraq, but we both know what they meant Read the transcript again, Cheney made it very clear that Kerry wasn't fit to be President. I won't bother posting specifics, although I would add that Cheney's line about Kerry that he "began his political career by saying he would like to see our troops deployed "only at the directive of the United Nations." Is completely true.

Kerry said it in an 1971 interview with a high school newspaper

Personally I think this campaign has been a mud fest from both sides, some is true and needed to be brought to the public's attn and some is not.

I'd agree for the most part, although if you look at the conventions and official campaign commercials...there is clearly much more negativity from the GOP. The Dems did a little bashing but none of it was in primetime.

-spence

[Nebe]

Iraq has oil... let me say this, do you guys who love bush so much think that we would have done what we did over there if they did not have any oil?? Something to consider... about one month after Bush took office, he pulled our country out of the international courts that prossicute war criminals, thus making our troops imune from war crimes... I read this in the paper one day before 9/11 and said..."oh boy were going to attack Iraq" shure enough we did... Also, you'll notice that before we attacked iraq there was a huge push to drill in the oil reserves that we have up in alaska...as soon as that was defeated, the Iraq war drums started beating...If you cant get your oil in one place, you gotta get it somewhere else... right?

I just want someone in office that pays attention to America and not about spreading our applepie all over the world.... remember Hernando Cortez??? The spanish conquestador who slaughtered millions of Mayans and Incans to spread christianity to south america?? I bet Bush has a picture of him over his bed and makes Laura wear one of those stupid silver helmets as he screams "death to Muslims!" well not really but you get my point...

If you live in the moment and are scared, vote for bush, but if yoru thiking about what our country will be like in 20 or 30 years, I feel a democrat is the best answer... that goes back to what Bliz said about the young and the old choosing parties... the old care more about their money that they've made than they care about the enviroment because they're gonna die in a few years anyway.... young people are more concerned that there might not be any clan drinking water, and food for everyone in 40 years.... cant you guys see this?

[Jigman]

Originally posted by Skip N
... Lets go back to the good old days and wait to be attacked again. That aint gonna happen with W in office....

Didn't the worst terrorist attack in US history happen under W's watch

Jigman

[spence]

Jig, that's how the die hard Bushies think. I don't blame Bush for 9/11, but I'm that the freaking GOP thinks only a Republican can defend this country.

Skip, if there was another (god forbid) attack, would you then say that Bush is a complete failure? Of course not...

Eben, I wouldn't even go as far as to say we need a democrat, we just need someone who will be held accountable and who really has the interests of the American people in their heart.

-spence

[Nebe]

Originally posted by spence

Skip, if there was another (god forbid) attack, would you then say that Bush is a complete failure? Of course not...
-spence

remember all those train derailments down south last year?? remember the huge explosion outside of LA in a Power Transformer grid station?? Those could have been attacks... small attacks, but they could have been terrorists... you never know


Spence your right.. I dont think Kerry or the dems are the ticket to Utopia.... but right now I'm rooting for kerry because I want bush and all his oil/blood s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g buddies gone.... adios bush amigo... adios... He's got everyone fooled hiding behind the crusifix and theAmerican flag... but in the end its all about profits for the rich and screw ma and pa....staying the course to me means more death and destruction along the way

[green meanie]

where are you getting your gas at?
because i havn't noticed a price drop in my area from all that oil we are taking from iraq.