Single Payer Suitors

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

I believe over 50% oppose National Health Care.....Is this the fringe everybody is refering to?

wow Buck!, that an awful lotta Racists, Bigots, Stalinists, Terrorists, Nazis, Astroturf Mob Members...something should be done about these people...

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by scottw

wow Buck!, that an awful lotta Racists, Bigots, Stalinists, Terrorists, Nazis, Astroturf Mob Members...something should be done about these people...

You forgot the Gun/Bible clingers.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

You forgot the Gun/Bible clingers.

While that was a really dumb thing for Obama to say, he was pretty much nuts on

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by justplugit
You forgot the Gun/Bible clingers

Originally Posted by spence

While that was a really dumb thing for Obama to say, he was pretty much nuts on

-spence

Originally Posted by spence
I think there's a big difference between the tune from either sides...

Conservatives tend to attack Liberals for who they are.

Liberals tend to attack Conservatives for what they do.

-spence

was this an attack on conservatives and/or Chrisitians for "who they are"(people of faith that believe in the Constitution)? an attack on same for "what they do"(cling to guns and bibles in Obama's delusional words/opinion)?

seems to me Obama is a "Christian" who never goes to church(except for a photo op, and after being a "member"(in quotes because he claims never to have heard anything so maybe he never went then either) of a hate church for 20 years), is that the RIGHT or ACCEPTED kind of Christian in the world of the liberal progressive? one who has faith as a matter of political convenience?...... the ONE that professes to be a man of faith when it's politically advantageous but attacks those that actually live their faith and believe in traditional American values....if you watch the Dems. closely, they only talk about faith when the polls tell them that it 's needed, Pelosi was on a kick a while back when she realized that the dems were losing the "values" voters, these are trasparent frauds that will hijack anything for political advantage and they expose themselves when they think they are in a "safe" environment among like thinkers...it was a "dumb" thing for him to say because it again exposed him for who he really is........

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

was this an attack on conservatives and/or Chrisitians for "who they are"(people of faith that believe in the Constitution)? an attack on same for "what they do"(cling to guns and bibles in Obama's delusional words/opinion)?

Obama wasn't commenting on conservatives in general, and he was commenting about some people's behavior. It wasn't that belief in God or gun rights is bad, but when a person clings to a single wedge issue at the expense of all others, that it can be shortsighted in the grand scheme of things...

Nice try.

-spence

[scottw]

“You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them,” Obama said. “And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

that's not at all what he said, he made/assumed an unsubstantiated generalization, kinda like you tend to do... you should stop trying to tell us what Obama means when he speaks, you are usually quite wrong...".a person clings to a single wedge issue at the expense of all others"...where does he say this???...what he says is they become bitter racists and bigots to "explain their frustrations".....this is not a fact that he states ..although he states it as fact ...this is the warped, belittling and condescending opinion of an arrogant a-hole who was trying to curry favor among other political elites, he does this a lot...."typical white person"

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

It wasn't that belief in God or gun rights is bad, but when a person clings to a single wedge issue at the expense of all others, that it can be shortsighted in the grand scheme of things.

-spence

Would you then consider anyone clinging to the HC Bill, when it is for less than 10% of the population,
and will be at the expense and affect the HC of all others, shortsighted in the grand scheme of things?
After all, 80% of the American people like their HC.

Let's fix it within our current programs, no need to upset the whole apple cart.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

that's not at all what he said, he made/assumed an unsubstantiated generalization, kinda like you tend to do... you should stop trying to tell us what Obama means when he speaks, you are usually quite wrong...".a person clings to a single wedge issue at the expense of all others"...where does he say this???...what he says is they become bitter racists and bigots to "explain their frustrations".....this is not a fact that he states ..although he states it as fact ...this is the warped, belittling and condescending opinion of an arrogant a-hole who was trying to curry favor among other political elites, he does this a lot...."typical white person"

It's called critical thinking. You should try it some time...

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Would you then consider anyone clinging to the HC Bill, when it is for less than 10% of the population,
and will be at the expense and affect the HC of all others, shortsighted in the grand scheme of things?
After all, 80% of the American people like their HC.

Providing health care to all Americans is only one facet of the legislation, the bigger problem is the looming entitlement crisis and rising private costs.

Put into proper context then it's not for just 10%...nearly all of us will be on Medicare some day.

That being said, it's clear the current proposals focus more of the former and less on the (more important) latter.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It's called critical thinking. You should try it some time...

-spence

it's called making sh*t up to support your pathetic argument/assertion, you should knock it off
....actually, no...you should continue because like Obama it provides a window through the facade..."critical thinking" that's a laugh

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

...nearly all of us will be on Medicare some day.

-spence

That's exactly my point, fix the programs that are in the system now.

Start with immediate savings, Tort reform and allowing interstate competition among health care providers.

[scottw]

problem is, their goal is not to fix or improve healthcare...




Crisis Strategy was the brainchild of two radical socialist college professors, Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. The idea was to overwhelm government with demands for services to the point where the system would collapse and provide an opening for the socialists to take over. Their strategy was behind creation of the National Welfare Rights Organization in the 1960s and 1970s which dramatically increased the welfare roles and caused the near bankruptcy of New York City in 1975; creation of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), prime instigators of the mortgage meltdown; the national Motor Voter law signed by President Clinton in 1993, which opened the floodgates to vote fraud by ACORN and similar groups; and the illegal immigrant amnesty movement. Barack Obama worked with and trained ACORN workers for many years.


Healthcare nationalization is a major component of this strategy. As Lenin said, "Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism." The Left has agitated as far back as the 1930s for some kind of socialized healthcare system. Their dream was partially realized with creation of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965. The stated goal of these programs was to provide comprehensive healthcare for seniors and the poor. As the programs grew, the Left clamored for ever more benefits to these groups and ever expanding definitions of covered individuals. Illegal immigration, also encouraged by the Left, has contributed to a rapidly growing pool of beneficiaries.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

That's exactly my point, fix the programs that are in the system now.

Start with immediate savings, Tort reform and allowing interstate competition among health care providers.

Well, there's a pretty good argument that says the system needs to be re-engineered rather than re-tooled. I don't know if you can bring tens of millions of new people into a dysfunctional system and expect some potentially modest (or longer term) cost savings to offset.

What's interesting in all of this, is that the plan most liked by the Whitehouse hasn't even been put out for public consumption. All this bickering is about the progressive plan from the House which doesn't stand a chance of moving forward as is.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, there's a pretty good argument that says the system needs to be re-engineered rather than re-tooled. I don't know if you can bring tens of millions of new people into a dysfunctional system and expect some potentially modest (or longer term) cost savings to offset.

What's interesting in all of this, is that the plan most liked by the Whitehouse hasn't even been put out for public consumption. All this bickering is about the progressive plan from the House which doesn't stand a chance of moving forward as is.

-spence

Just about all the Government plans, Soc. Security, Medicare, Medicaid and nowthe Postal Service are close to bankruptcy.

These Government programs are always seen as an affordable panacea and end up costing billions and now trillions
more then projected.

Doesn't bode well for another Government plan that will prove unaffordable
and put even more burden on my kids and Grandkids.

I agree that the current ridiculous Congressional program doesn't look like it will make it through as is,
fortunately Obama wasn't able to force it through 2 weeks ago like he wanted!

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

fortunately Obama wasn't able to force it through 2 weeks ago like he wanted!

I think Obama was just looking for a vote, not actually getting anything through...

The word is the Whitehouse has worked a number of inside deals with the Industry and is waiting to put these in the Senate bill.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

I think Obama was just looking for a vote, not actually getting anything through...


-spence

That is a looong reach. Obama would have given up his LEFT arm to
pass that bill exactly the way it was.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

That is a looong reach. Obama would have given up his LEFT arm to
pass that bill exactly the way it was.

Don't agree...the Senate wasn't any where close to a bill...

-spence

[justplugit]

Imho, and seeing the recent Bills passed under Obama with his Party in control over both Houses passing them with lighting speed,
HC would have flown past the Senate.

It's Obama's MO, and HC is his "signature piece."