Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass

[luds]

I would love to see the 40" slot raised to 45" or 47". Basically a trophy allowance. Leave the 20lb to high 30lb fish alone to breed. If a bass makes it to the high 30's I'd like to see them be given the chance to reproduce more if they survived that long. My own selficiousness kicks in at 40lb. A possible free Van Staal is to good to pass up and I get a rush out of trying to drag a 40 to my truck unnoticed.

[Rockfish9]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

One the angler registry/fishing license reaches its full potential, the comms are going the way of the buffalo hunter. End of story. I think within 3 years this will be the case as the comms will face a much larger and organized opposition.

your are exactly correct.. it is the evolution of things....

I never thought i'd see it this way... maybe I'm tired of the fight...

As youngster(14) I sold school bass and trapped eels to sell (another fish in decline) I thought i'd sell fish forever,as a young man with 4 growing kids those fish bought all the "going back to school" clothes for my kids each fall... i havent sold ( except tuna) a fish ( bass or cod) since 2004....I've watched things change through the years, fishing out of Newbury port, we had several fish dealers to sell our fish to.. now all gone, the few remaining draggers have their own trucks and go to gloucester and Boston, a few local places try and buy bass, but it's more trouble than it is worth.. another freedom lost...

I trapped fur all my life from the time i was able to walk, I was a member of mass trappers and for years, we fought the good fight.. but money and ill informed people won out... Mass eventually ended all practical trapping...once again another freedom lost..

it's coming guy's, maybe not this year, but eventualy, you will no longer be able to sell bass in Mass....I never thought i couldn't hitch up my boat in dead winter and go cod fishing.. they took that away too.. Now the boat is covered and winterized in October..C&R and game fish status is inevitable..

Maryland had the right idea ( in theory) years ago allowing only the small fish to be harvested, thus saving the breeders... it makes perfect sense... I like the slot limit Idea witht the trophy clause.. thus you make a decision... do I want to eat it or catch a wall hanger...

Just one mans opinion that has spent most of his 53 years on this planet fishing, hunting and trapping... and watching it slowly go the way of the buffalo...

tight lines all
Roc..

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Rockfish9

Maryland had the right idea ( in theory) years ago allowing only the small fish to be harvested, thus saving the breeders... it makes perfect sense... I like the slot limit Idea witht the trophy clause.. thus you make a decision... do I want to eat it or catch a wall hanger...

Maryland saves the breeders that make it into their waters to spawn. Virgina allows them to be slaughtered every winter/spring as they school up and stage to go up the Chessie. These are strictly rec boaters doing this.

NY closes the Hudson for the pre-spawn staging and the start of the spawn. I wish Virginia would do the same.

[Back Beach]

^

Instituting a slot limit as prescribed will in effect create a trophy fishery if other states follow suit, which is exactly what we all want, no? We're essentially instituting a 40" minimum size limit. Cutting the limit to one a day and lowering the bar on size equates to lower fishing pressure as well as lower discard mortality. People will give up sooner with a fish in the box as opposed to culling through shorts in order to get a keeper.

At worst, we're creating a neutral harvest/mortality picture for small fish by cutting the daily bag to one small fish a day and allowing our breeding stock repeated attempts to reproduce. Right now we're slaughtering the breeders as soon as they reach minimal breeding size.

Other states will eventually have to follow suit once pressure from the newly organized "recreational fisherman's" lobby is created through the federal registry and ensuing saltwater license. Its just a matter of time as the recs greatly outnumber the commercials. Recs aren't organized yet, but its coming and is as close to a done deal as one could ask for.

If all this stuff falls into place(and its likely it will) we'll be walking on the backs of large fish in 5-10 years.

[Raven]

i agree....

the larger the breeder...the more eggs get laid and hopefully fertilized

which makes more fingerlings to go on maturing......

but the odds are stacked WAY against them all the way
to a Monster sized bass.

[MAKAI]

I remember well my last day of being a com guy.
27 beautiful fish all over the deck. For what ? A few hundred bucks.
So for the greater good I swore I would never willfully kill another one.
Just my feelings, not preaching to anyone.

[JohnR]

I'm not hugely against commercial fishing for bass but I do think we need to take Rec & Comm back to when it was one fish for rec, 800K for commercial and THEN take a third off the top. That would put a dent in both.

We still gotta find out how legit this is and if so, does it have legs.

[OX]

Originally Posted by JohnR

OX Good seeing you, err typing, crap, you know what I mean

You too JR. The British thought it was "CRAP" too, how'd they do? As for SF....bunch of clucks.......probably 80% of them couldn't catch a 20# fish. So they want legislation under the guise of conservation to give them more of an edge. Please................

[BasicPatrick]

Good Morning Viet Nam...

Before I start...there are a few threads on this exact bill from the past year so search away boys. Search under Stripers Forever and Rep Matt Patrick.

Here is what I can tell you as I am very much up to speed on this one.

This is the Rep. Matt Patrick of Falmouth aka Stripers Forever Legislation and yes, it has legs. I am pretty sure Stripers Forever got a green grant to get this legislation passed and I know they have a lobbyist, organizers and have been working a professional political campaign strategy.

The hearing before the MA Joint Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and the Environment mentioned in the article was bounced around between Dec 1 and Dec 15 and now has been postponed until someitme in January. The given reason is that some legislators that wanted to tesify had scheduling issues. I am aware that there are legislators going to testify both for and against this bill. I have learned that Stripers Forever is bussing people in for the hearing. Once again this bill does have some legs.

The MA Striped Bass Association voted many months ago to oppose this legislation. Although we feel there should be a robust public debate on S-B as a gamefish and regulations to reduce mortality, the number one reason to oppose this legislation is that the legislature should not get into managing fisheries. Can you see it now. If this bill passes there will be legislation filed for every single fish in MA Waters. This is how it is done in Virginia and that system does not work. Whomever posted about the enviros and commercials having lots of money and waiting for a prescedent was dead nuts correct.

Another reason to oppose the bill is that in the eyes of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Striped Bass Management Board and their scientists this bill will not conserve any Striped Bass. The current managment plan wuld redistribute the commercial quota unless MA chose to harvest these fish in another manner (ie, the NJ third trophy fish) and that is unlikely.

I will state that I do not think many of the recreational organizations are going to go to war on this bill so you rod and reel commercial guys better get into this fight and fast.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Another reason to oppose the bill is that in the eyes of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Striped Bass Management Board and their scientists this bill will not conserve any Striped Bass. The current managment plan wuld redistribute the commercial quota unless MA chose to harvest these fish in another manner (ie, the NJ third trophy fish) and that is unlikely.

Very true, but this new legislation is just a trojan horse. Down the road I can't believe with the impending sw registry/license the rec fishers take a greater position of power, thus influencing the outcome of our fisheries regs to a much greater degree...not saying this is necessarily good, but its iminent.

[CowHunter]

I cant understand why on earth anybody would want a slot limit and think that it is a good thing. They did it here in NJ for a few years and wiped out a generation of resident fish. Didnt work, its gone but the damage is done. Anybody was able to go out in the early spring and clam up a 100 or so Slot fish. it was amazing how much that changed in a year and then two. You had headboats from NY and NJ with 60-80 people on em pounding on these fish, then charter boats, and rec guys. Every boat in the bay was anchoring up and clamming and then chunking when the bunker arrived. Slot fish dont promote catch and realease, people catching slots are killing and eating em. Means alot more people killing...Raritan bay is now like the dead sea All those resident fish are wiped out. People up in New england cant imagine what pressure there is here. Makes mass commercial look like me surfcasting block...... Here we have the most densly populated area and you cant imagine the pressure on fish. Thats OK though, because now that the bay is dead we saved the bunker and the bunker made a huge comeback... They are up and down the NJ coast for miles. An easy bait supply is a good thing for our striped bass, I think much of the opposite. When everybody has easy access to bunker anybody could could go out and snag and drop. Pretty funny when you have Hundreds of boats and hundreds of "Surffishermen" snagging and dropping every single day. Headboats from Staten Island, Brooklyn, NY and NJ targeting the transitory fish moving up the coast. These are the Big fish. Well the fishery really has been getting worse and worse every year. Funny to see miles and miles of bunker schools with nothing on em. Things change alot in a year or two. I dont care what anybody says, numbers are down, way down and thats up the coast from North carolina to Maine. I know because I fish up and down the coast, areas that used to hold fish dont. No matter how you cut it there are fewer and fewer fish every season. I know how much harder and smarter I have to fish.... Mass Can be like NJ, put in a slot limit, Sell the commercial fishery out for a single dollar a fish and call it a bonus tag program with an endless supply of tags.Everyone I know gets bonus tags.... Guys going out 4 to a boat and keeping 16 fish a trip. Hell I know, I have clients come on my boat and do it all the time. In fact I kill way more fish a season here in NJ on my charters than I do in Mass. Commercial 2008 / 11,500lbs 18 days, 2009 / 8,600lbs 14 days.... I wont even write whats killed on my charters. In fact, I dont get any just catch and release trips. I know so many people that reuse those tags and so the reporting season is all BS, at least in Mass the commercial fishery is regulated. These people who say they are trying to save the striped bass fishery really have no clue, they are idiots. They Point the finger at Mass commercial, rhode island commercial. I bet more fish are killed in NJ April, May, June, October, November just poundage wise recreationally then Mass and Rhode Island combined Commercial and recreational. Who keeps tally on what is getting killed here. I dont have any catch reports to fill out here Charter wise or recreational. It all BS. Gotta love now how the shut the Fluke down, all the boats that were targeting fluke are now targeting stripers. Striped Bass donta stand a chance in the next few years. Guys should see the Damage is done in VA / NC in the winter when the whole Biomass is Concentrated. How that fishery fell of a cliff. Hey, Maybe we can get the eez opened up to 12 miles like VA is pushing since the inside fish are wiped... Its gonna be ugly in the next few years. Should just have a 1 fish limit at 36" OR Better like they did in the mratorioum. Mass commercial stayed open and look at the comeback the fish made.Get used to it being like buzzards bay in the summer, or the rhode Island Surf in October / November. How things have changed in short time. Sorry for the rambling... from our government down, people in charge who dont have a clue....

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I'm not hugely against commercial fishing for bass but I do think we need to take Rec & Comm back to when it was one fish for rec, 800K for commercial and THEN take a third off the top. That would put a dent in both.

We still gotta find out how legit this is and if so, does it have legs.

This is extremely legit. The bill has been sponsored for over a year and you are hearing about it now because it made it to committee. Once the committee decides it is worthy of a vote in the house it will be in fact a bill.

I have personally sent over 100 handwritten letters in support of this to the MA legislature and countless e-mails.

The commercial striped bass industry in Massachusetts is second in take only to Maryland. Eliminating the commercial market in MA and reducing the Rec take to one fish a day goes a long way in conserving the striped Bass. I am surprised this is news to everyone.

Stripers Forever is hardly an Elitist group. It is a group that is run by volunteers has and spends every dime it receives to conserve and protect the Striped Bass. To think the members of Stripers Forever are a bunch of Orvis Casting Land Rover Driving elitists is simply ignorant.

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Should just have a 1 fish limit at 36" ....

K.I.S.S.

[CowHunter]

And you have absolutley not a CLUE as to what the Rec take is state to state, NO CLUE whatsoever. Just blame it on the Mass com's....

[CowHunter]

Probably the same people that encouraged Bonus Tags... NJ the only State that has it. 3 Fish per man, day to day, every day! The hell with people that dont fish, only the people that fish for striped bass should be allowed to eat striped bass, (ELITEST). Would do lovely things for the black market of striped bass, just like tog down here in NJ / NY! And Bass!

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

And you have absolutley not a CLUE as to what the Rec take is state to state, NO CLUE whatsoever. Just blame it on the Mass com's....

Ken,

You make many valid points, but the Mass commercial is still a joke/free for all, IMO. Stopping commercial harvest in Mass is only one of the facets of this plan. Added benefits are the plethora of poachers who ply the RI and CT waters and sell their fish in Mass will have one less place to dump their catches. I regularly watch a couple divers from CT bring their gigantic "commercial" catches up to Mass every summer. Every one of their fish has a harpoon hole just behind the gill plate from where the fish were shot with a spear gun. I'm sure plenty of this stuff goes on but doesn't get on the public radar.

Like you pointed out, the "game fish" status in Jersey is a joke too as the powers that be simply pulled the rug out from under the commercial guys and handed the quota to the rec guys, which accomplished absolutley nothing but the continued slaughter of large fish. Should the same thing happen in Mass it will be a travesty.

I'm thinking better things are going to happen going forward simply because the gamefish status and one fish per day limit does make sense provided we get everyone on board.
Provided there's an abundance of slot sized fish available that would be protected, the slot makes sense too provided everyone gets on board with it.

If the plan does work out, it will result in every user group taking less, not just the comms.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

The commercial striped bass industry in Massachusetts is second in take only to Maryland. Eliminating the commercial market in MA and reducing the Rec take to one fish a day goes a long way in conserving the striped Bass. I am surprised this is news to everyone.

Stripers Forever is hardly an Elitist group. It is a group that is run by volunteers has and spends every dime it receives to conserve and protect the Striped Bass. To think the members of Stripers Forever are a bunch of Orvis Casting Land Rover Driving elitists is simply ignorant.

My understanding is that eliminating the Commercial Season in MA will only allow for that tonnage of fish to be distributed to other states. Where exactly is the net gain for the Striped Bass?

Selfishly, it will be nice not to have Comms cherry-picking the biggest fish around and being without the ones you sometimes encounter that act like they own the ocean (this is the minority though).

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

... To think the members of Stripers Forever are a bunch of Orvis Casting Land Rover Driving elitists is simply ignorant.

.........

Great way win friends and educate the Woefully Uninformed, there, Skippy...particularly on your 5th post...

[Raven]

Careful Crafty
his middle initial stands for bad

[agsurfr]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Numb,

I doubt the food supply argument holds much water. There is not that much SB in the the total protein equation to amount to anything significant that would in turn effect price of other food. Besides, commercial demand could easily be met with farm raised fish.

This law would result in a substantial reduction of fish taken in MA and I support it. It is moving in the right direction of conservation. Going from 2 to 1 on recs (regardless of size) alone is huge. Taking the $ off the fishes head stops a lot of wrongful activity that we all know goes on and is unaccounted for. I support the game fish goal (along with a rec cut)l, it is the only way IMO to really cut through the crap and reduce the pressure on the fish.

Because the SB is largely a C&R activity among many (most?) recs now anyway, I don't think this will hurt the recs all that much nor the $ they bring into the economy.

I believe the $ recs wouldn't contribute if SB were completely halted is somewhat exaggerated but it is a huge number.
There is some real evidence that during the moratorium people didn't fish for SB nearly as often. Who knows what they did but they will probably do it again. My own personal observations during the moratorium was there were a lot fewer guys out fishing for bass in those years.
Given the reductions of Fluke, Seabass and now SB there could be a shift out of fishing altogether and into other activities...or maybe just go into the savings or pay off some debt. Further I strongly believe that higher fuel costs will aggravate the boating end of the equation as well. Lastly, I think having to buy a rec fishing lic will be "just one more thing" to stop a lot of newbies and familys from getting into sw fishing.

From my own personal (selfish)standpoint I strongly support gamefish move because there will not be the 60+ comm boats fishing day in and day out and day out at GH pounding the %$%$%$%$ out of the fish dumping tons of bunker and depleting the local stock as they take a healthy chunk of the quota from my backyard. (yes that means you RI guys too) I will tell you those fish off GH are like Pavlov's dogs..they are trained to come to the dinner bell which is rung every Sun, Tue, Wed and Thur.

I also believe (at least up my way) that stopping the comm fishing for bass will improve the bunker situation which is depleted with these bass guys taking thousands of bunker to support their comm bass habit.

I hope it passes but doubt it will. The comm guys have a strong voice in this state and they have filtered their way up the legislation tree like a bad disease. They usually get most of what they want. There is what I call the "NRA mentality" among comm fishermen. "I can't give up anything because the next thing you know you will be taking away my fishing rods" mentality. (referring to "can't give up armor piercing ammo and fully automatic weapons because the next thing you know we have to give up all our guns" thinking)

Sandman,


Couldn't agree more about the fishing on MV. The use (I mean abuse) of the baitfish is huge too. We want to nurture the SB fishery, we better start thinking about their forage or the increasing lack of it.

Don'y know much about the bill, but I hope it passes.

Curious point, but it is my understanding that the CT legislature just voted to allow some percentage of unused quota from 1 year to roll over to the next for the Comms. Here's the perplexing bit, CT has no Comm fishery so they voted to let our neighbors to catch more of our fish. Can't really see how this benefits CT fishermen. Idiots...

Fair winds

ab

[Canalman]

Wow, First I've heard of this. It's about time!

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Whenever the topic has come up, this is what most people have wanted. I don't believe changes like this in only one state is going to make any difference though.

Sets an example for other states to follow. Seems like all the remaining comm states are dancing around a pool of cold water and afraid to be the first to dip their toe in.

Lowering the size limit to 20" is a measure to reduce release mortality. Won't work, but at least they're trying

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

That size slot is smack dab in the middle of the fish they are trying to protect. The 20-26" fish are going to have a much higher number of males -v - the almost exclusive only females in the 28-34 (really anything over 28). Protecting classes of fish in the 28-39" range is going to keep a lot more breeders open and available.

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

[CowHunter]

Nurture the SB fishery??? Why not just put everything on Gamefish status, catch and release only??? Put it on tuna, all species. Why make Striped bass so special?? Kind of selfish to have no com fishing, however rec guys can kill their catch??? Maybe have increases in Rec licenses??? CT went from $10 to $60 per person... VA went to $50.00 per person, no more buying a boat license unless your a resident... I know I have to pay $1260.00 in licenses just to be legal... Theres alot more water than just Gay Head... 60 boats is a blessing, should come down to fish NJ / NY Harbor! Just because there are 60 boats out there doesnt mean everyone is catching, theres alot more to it....

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by JohnR

I'm not hugely against commercial fishing for bass but I do think we need to take Rec & Comm back to when it was one fish for rec, 800K for commercial and THEN take a third off the top. That would put a dent in both.

We still gotta find out how legit this is and if so, does it have legs.

Biggest problem I see with the commercial fishery is that the guys who are good are trained assassins. They can hover over a body of big fish and do some real damage. Bodies of fish are vulnerable to being wiped out if the fleet anchors up over their heads. If these guys take their 30 fish from a pod of 100, that's a third of a migrating or resident pod of fish that has likely been programmed (genetically) to run a certain route, breed a certain river. Take a third away--that's bad enough--but what about when the other 15 boats within binocular range come motoring over to drop their yo-yo's how many are left then?

I've seen some great hauls come into the commercial place near my house---seen many 50's and a 64 there. But they don't hold a candle to the thousands of 30's I've seen stiff and covered with crushed ice. It really does need to stop.

We should not support the Striper Cup either though... that list of pin winner is like Schindlers List for striped bass

A high percentage of the commercial guys DO NOT NEED TO BE FISHING TO SUSTAIN THEMSELVES ANYWAY. It's a double-paid vacation for them.

If we are to keep the commercial fishery alive, you should have to prove that commercial fishing makes up more that 50% of your yearly income.

-Dave

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Nurture the SB fishery??? Why not just put everything on Gamefish status, catch and release only??? Put it on tuna, all species. Why make Striped bass so special?? Kind of selfish to have no com fishing, however rec guys can kill their catch??? Maybe have increases in Rec licenses??? CT went from $10 to $60 per person... VA went to $50.00 per person, no more buying a boat license unless your a resident... I know I have to pay $1260.00 in licenses just to be legal... Theres alot more water than just Gay Head... 60 boats is a blessing, should come down to fish NJ / NY Harbor! Just because there are 60 boats out there doesnt mean everyone is catching, theres alot more to it....

I would probably say that too if I was as good as you are at targeting trophy bass. I'm sure selling them makes up a good chunk of your fun money.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by Canalman

John, that does proect the fish you're suggesting we protect

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

[agsurfr]

We stay the course there might be a lot less as you stated earlier, no??

[Canalman]

Originally Posted by Back Beach

It does, provided there's enough fish passing through the slot size, which depends on what was born in previous years. If you get a large year class of fish born it makes sense to me the managers would have to anticipate the age/length and implement the slot accordingly for it to provide any real benefit.

If a 28"-40" slot gets implemented but the fish are all either too big/too small its a wasted effort. The slot also has to coincide with good year classes of fish in order to provide the highest yield of protected breeders.

Righth there with ya. Look at the year classes though, this would protect the 2001 class which was the biggest ever recorded.

-Dave

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Good Morning Viet Nam...

Before I start...there are a few threads on this exact bill from the past year so search away boys. Search under Stripers Forever and Rep Matt Patrick.

Here is what I can tell you as I am very much up to speed on this one.

This is the Rep. Matt Patrick of Falmouth aka Stripers Forever Legislation and yes, it has legs. I am pretty sure Stripers Forever got a green grant to get this legislation passed and I know they have a lobbyist, organizers and have been working a professional political campaign strategy.

The hearing before the MA Joint Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and the Environment mentioned in the article was bounced around between Dec 1 and Dec 15 and now has been postponed until someitme in January. The given reason is that some legislators that wanted to tesify had scheduling issues. I am aware that there are legislators going to testify both for and against this bill. I have learned that Stripers Forever is bussing people in for the hearing. Once again this bill does have some legs.

The MA Striped Bass Association voted many months ago to oppose this legislation. Although we feel there should be a robust public debate on S-B as a gamefish and regulations to reduce mortality, the number one reason to oppose this legislation is that the legislature should not get into managing fisheries. Can you see it now. If this bill passes there will be legislation filed for every single fish in MA Waters. This is how it is done in Virginia and that system does not work. Whomever posted about the enviros and commercials having lots of money and waiting for a prescedent was dead nuts correct.

Another reason to oppose the bill is that in the eyes of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Striped Bass Management Board and their scientists this bill will not conserve any Striped Bass. The current managment plan wuld redistribute the commercial quota unless MA chose to harvest these fish in another manner (ie, the NJ third trophy fish) and that is unlikely.

I will state that I do not think many of the recreational organizations are going to go to war on this bill so you rod and reel commercial guys better get into this fight and fast.

Patrick, I agree the marine fisheries should not be told what to do by the senate and congress from this whacked state of ours. If this bill has legs like you say, I have a question. Is anyone else filing a bill to counter this so it can't happen? head them off at the pass so to speak.

Sounds like a bunch of ill-informed people trying to do what they think is right and as usual, mankind will interfere with nature and throw the balance out like has already happened. I am against killing small fish
1 per day at 36" would be fine with me coastwide.


Canalman, the bass on the banks of the canal on last Memorial day was more than any week of mass. comm season I bet. I don't like to see large breeders going to be sold either, but that bill has many flaws if you ask me.

Cowhunter, I hope it never comes to how it is now in jersey.
The government needs money to operate and they are going to look in any place they can find it. we all have to fight.