Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass - Page 2 - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Mr. Sandman · 12-04-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Should just have a 1 fish limit at 36" ....

K.I.S.S.

CowHunter · 12-04-2009, 01:23 PM

And you have absolutley not a CLUE as to what the Rec take is state to state, NO CLUE whatsoever. Just blame it on the Mass com's....

Slipknot · 12-04-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Good Morning Viet Nam...

Before I start...there are a few threads on this exact bill from the past year so search away boys. Search under Stripers Forever and Rep Matt Patrick.

Here is what I can tell you as I am very much up to speed on this one.

This is the Rep. Matt Patrick of Falmouth aka Stripers Forever Legislation and yes, it has legs. I am pretty sure Stripers Forever got a green grant to get this legislation passed and I know they have a lobbyist, organizers and have been working a professional political campaign strategy.

The hearing before the MA Joint Committee on Natural Resources, Agriculture and the Environment mentioned in the article was bounced around between Dec 1 and Dec 15 and now has been postponed until someitme in January. The given reason is that some legislators that wanted to tesify had scheduling issues. I am aware that there are legislators going to testify both for and against this bill. I have learned that Stripers Forever is bussing people in for the hearing. Once again this bill does have some legs.

The MA Striped Bass Association voted many months ago to oppose this legislation. Although we feel there should be a robust public debate on S-B as a gamefish and regulations to reduce mortality, the number one reason to oppose this legislation is that the legislature should not get into managing fisheries. Can you see it now. If this bill passes there will be legislation filed for every single fish in MA Waters. This is how it is done in Virginia and that system does not work. Whomever posted about the enviros and commercials having lots of money and waiting for a prescedent was dead nuts correct.

Another reason to oppose the bill is that in the eyes of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission Striped Bass Management Board and their scientists this bill will not conserve any Striped Bass. The current managment plan wuld redistribute the commercial quota unless MA chose to harvest these fish in another manner (ie, the NJ third trophy fish) and that is unlikely.

I will state that I do not think many of the recreational organizations are going to go to war on this bill so you rod and reel commercial guys better get into this fight and fast.

Patrick, I agree the marine fisheries should not be told what to do by the senate and congress from this whacked state of ours. If this bill has legs like you say, I have a question. Is anyone else filing a bill to counter this so it can't happen? head them off at the pass so to speak.

Sounds like a bunch of ill-informed people trying to do what they think is right and as usual, mankind will interfere with nature and throw the balance out like has already happened. I am against killing small fish
1 per day at 36" would be fine with me coastwide.

Canalman, the bass on the banks of the canal on last Memorial day was more than any week of mass. comm season I bet. I don't like to see large breeders going to be sold either, but that bill has many flaws if you ask me.

Cowhunter, I hope it never comes to how it is now in jersey.
The government needs money to operate and they are going to look in any place they can find it. we all have to fight.

CowHunter · 12-04-2009, 05:42 PM

Canalman, you think all the fish are caught commercially yo-yo'ng??? You are way off, I didnt see a single person yo-yoing in mass. whatever the comms catch thats legal goes in the boat and they are done as soon as the limit is hit. I did see alot of fish killed by the snag and drop down here in NJ / NY. They think they are doing good gut hooking and then releasing bleeding fish. Theres always plenty floating belly up. As sandman stated seeing 60 boats at Gayhead, I laugh at that beause you guys dont know how good you have it. There is no way everyone of them is coming in with limits... Less than 10 percent are. Most of those guys are camped out all day for a handfull of fish or they are guys scupping. If it were that easy everyone would do it. Mass is a HUGE state with alot of shoreline, theres many miles of ocean where 1 million LBS comes from. Recs kill WAY More fish. My problem is who is counting those fish. Nobody ever counted a single fish caught recreationally of mine nor did I have to report it, even chartering in NJ, Thats thousands of pounds a season and Im one guy, how about the thousands of other people? Guys should go fish off Rudy VA Dec - March, its like Gay head x 500 boats, 8-12 men a boat, 1-2 trips a day over the entire BIOMASS. That will be a thing of the past soon. I mentioned the license fees because if the comms dont pay there gonna miss the $$, theyll be raising the rec license fees substantially Im sure. started out at $10 and are up 5-6 times more in a year. Easiest money the government ever got! Lets keep raising for Obamanation!

CowHunter · 12-04-2009, 05:51 PM

JackBass, the Mass comm season is around 20 days! All you want to do is take the comm catch and give it to the rec guys who are complaining because there are less fish to catch. Might as well make it a catch and release fishery period then??
Mass reporting system is a joke? Let me tell you it is WAY better than what any state has. I get checked there more times in a week than I did in all the other states I fish combined in all my years! At least there is a reporting system. You will never have a rec reporting system, ever. You have absolutely no idea the damage done elsewhere by "rec" guys. More fish are sold black market here in NJ or NY than the entire Mass commercial season. Id bet anything on it!

Canalman · 12-04-2009, 03:18 PM

Wow, First I've heard of this. It's about time!

CowHunter · 12-04-2009, 03:29 PM

Nurture the SB fishery??? Why not just put everything on Gamefish status, catch and release only??? Put it on tuna, all species. Why make Striped bass so special?? Kind of selfish to have no com fishing, however rec guys can kill their catch??? Maybe have increases in Rec licenses??? CT went from $10 to $60 per person... VA went to $50.00 per person, no more buying a boat license unless your a resident... I know I have to pay $1260.00 in licenses just to be legal... Theres alot more water than just Gay Head... 60 boats is a blessing, should come down to fish NJ / NY Harbor! Just because there are 60 boats out there doesnt mean everyone is catching, theres alot more to it....

Canalman · 12-04-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Nurture the SB fishery??? Why not just put everything on Gamefish status, catch and release only??? Put it on tuna, all species. Why make Striped bass so special?? Kind of selfish to have no com fishing, however rec guys can kill their catch??? Maybe have increases in Rec licenses??? CT went from $10 to $60 per person... VA went to $50.00 per person, no more buying a boat license unless your a resident... I know I have to pay $1260.00 in licenses just to be legal... Theres alot more water than just Gay Head... 60 boats is a blessing, should come down to fish NJ / NY Harbor! Just because there are 60 boats out there doesnt mean everyone is catching, theres alot more to it....

I would probably say that too if I was as good as you are at targeting trophy bass. I'm sure selling them makes up a good chunk of your fun money.

agsurfr · 12-04-2009, 03:46 PM

We stay the course there might be a lot less as you stated earlier, no??

big jay · 12-04-2009, 05:24 PM

I think Cowhunter is a guy I could drink a beer with.

UserRemoved1 · 12-05-2009, 05:11 AM

Smoking is bad for you

Big Jay I'd buy the first round.

MAKAI · 12-05-2009, 10:51 AM

[QUOTE=#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&;728248]Smoking is bad for you

So are women I like, but I do it anyway.
Their collective nattering babble always in my ears like tinnitus.

CowHunter · 12-05-2009, 12:44 PM

Striped Bass - Status of Fishery Resources off the Northeastern US

MAKAI · 12-05-2009, 03:22 PM

I'm just curious,

How is the data derived for recreationally killed fish ?

No one I know has ever been asked what there take is.

So is it just an " educated " guess ?

JohnR · 12-05-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAKAI

I'm just curious,

How is the data derived for recreationally killed fish ?

No one I know has ever been asked what there take is.

So is it just an " educated " guess ?

IIRC they may send someone out with a notepad to ask you to volunteer for a survey as some fish location. I was once asked to do a survey 10 something years ago at the docks in Galilee the one time I went Cod fishing from there.
They also randomly call people to see if the fish, and then how so, and then get in to detail and hope you don't lie.

One of the goals of the "Federal License / Registry" is to generate significant lists to do the surveys.

Brian L · 12-06-2009, 08:07 AM

Rec's may catch more fish but they kill far fewer. I dare say that 100% of the fish caught commercially are killed. Recreational fishermen kill very few of their catch....maybe 10% nationwide. For me it's 0% as I release them all....but that's just me. Plus rec's provide much more $$ for the economy than do comm's.

I'm confused by this. Of course 100% of the comm catch is killed, that's the point isn't it? It's meant for food. Where does 10% come from? Then, you mention that rec's bring more into the economy but have a problem with comm's making money on fish. Either way, money is brought into an economy that creates dead fish. What's the difference? I'm not attacking rec's, as 90 percent of the Striper fishing I do is rec, btw. I just don't get the argument.

And 10% of the take of a few million anglers who fish all year is still a much bigger number than 100% of the comm take that occurs a few weeks a year. If you want to argue that recs kill fewer per trip, I'll have to agree with you, but no way in hell does the comm catch equal the rec, charter, and black market catch. (Thanks to Intrepid for distinguishing between comm catch and black market catch)

Comm fishing is still the only sector that can accurately tally fish mortality and therefore help properly manage fish stocks.

l.i.fish.in.vt · 12-06-2009, 08:44 AM

i guess since hardcore surfcasters fish at night they have no idea what happens on the water in the light.most of the C@R that i see is after a limit is already in the box.i guess most guys have never walked the docks out in Montauk when the partyboats recs and charter boats come in.take a look at moriches inlet, shinecock and jones ,fire island, rockaway and every other inlet on the east coast on a weekend.you don't have to be a genuis to see the damage being done by the rec's.you want to protect the bass,1 fish a day with a tag,no fishing sping and fall,just like snook fishing in florida.enforcement is easy,a few big fines and the word gets out fast.

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 08:54 AM

BackBeach out of staters fish commercially for many other species in multiple states. Thats like telling you that you can only fish recreationally and kill your catch in Mass...

Brian L · 12-06-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

BackBeach out of staters fish commercially for many other species in multiple states. Thats like telling you that you can only fish recreationally and kill your catch in Mass...

You beat me to it... Agree 100%

With your rules, no more RI fishing for you, BB. You'll have to stay in Mass for now on. :^)

Although, I'm guessing that you're referring to people who catch fish in RI waters and sell them in Mass.

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:06 AM

Backbeach, not everyone from out of state is poaching or ice fishing, some of the worst offenders are in your backyard!

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:10 AM

Brian, No Backbeach is refering to getting rid of all the out of staters with commercial permits period. They dont want out of staters coming up and catching THEIR fish. Been trying to get it done for years.

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:12 AM

JohnnyD, plain and simple, there are those that play by the rules and those that dont like in everything else...

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:23 AM

Makai, if youre gonna make it a gamefish then why be allowed to kill anyfish??? Take away the comm catch but let recs kill theres.

The Decline in the numbers of bass is not to to the 20 some odd days of the Mass Commercial season. That entire biomass is taking a pounding from December through June. Ill say it agian, Many of you guys havent got a clue what goes on down south of you, You just complain when the fish dont show up in new England and blame it on 20 days of commercial season. There is no comparison whatsoever!

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:03 AM

Doublerunner, well to bad for you if you take offense. My post was directed at people to whom it applies. People trying to change rules to better benifit them, have nothing better than trying to ruin the lives of hard working people....

Doublerunner · 12-06-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Doublerunner, well to bad for you if you take offense. My post was directed at people to whom it applies. People trying to change rules to better benifit them, have nothing better than trying to ruin the lives of hard working people....

Everyone wants the rules to benefit them and you're no different.

I personally support that rec's should only be allowed one fish per outing and I'd dare say only 1 fish per week.

I also think charter boats should be limited to what can be kept on each outing no matter how many passengers they have.

I will also admit to not knowing enough of how commercial fishing works so I will not lump everyone together but I do know human nature. And whether you are commercial or rec or charter there are some people that are responsible and follow guidelines and instincts that will allow for the fishery to survive for generations. And then there are those that only care about themselves for the here and now and don't care what damage they do. And we're not even talking about businesses that kill fish with their pollution and toxins here either.

As I stated earlier I do not want to see any one's livelihood taken away. I do feel if there is an effort on all fronts then it may work. In the short term there may be a moratorium, who knows. Quantity limits and slot limits seem the best way to start. But enforcement on all fronts with stiff penalties that include large fines, jail time, and loss of equipment with well publicized media reports would also go a long way in detracting those that break the law. And the only way to enforce is to have more people out there which would mean higher costs for everyone to fish. When it comes down to it the only people that can have a true effect on improving the stock is those that are fishing for it and if we can't work together and improve it ourselves ( which has already been proven over and over ) then the states and feds will impose stricter regs and higher costs on all of us.

And again I'll say an even bigger problem is the menhaden draggers

MikeToole · 12-06-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Doublerunner, well to bad for you if you take offense. My post was directed at people to whom it applies. People trying to change rules to better benifit them, have nothing better than trying to ruin the lives of hard working people....

Hard working people have destroyed or severly damaged many of our fisheries.

I'm not against commercial fishing. I'm for maximizing the value of the resource for the public good. I'm originally from NJ and I fish there a couple of times a year and I agree with your other post about the number of fish being killed. There are far more chart and private boats fishing for stripers now then there were in the late 60s. Now even the party boats target them. From what I've seen, catch and release of legal fish is not near as common down there as it is here. We're killing to many fish and we need to reduce the numbers. Problem is, it's hard to convince recreational fisherman to reduce their kill when others are allowed to kill for profit. right or wrong it is the arguement I get when I bring up reducing the kill numbers.

Back Beach · 12-07-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

BackBeach out of staters fish commercially for many other species in multiple states. Thats like telling you that you can only fish recreationally and kill your catch in Mass...

True, but there's no reciprocity with the commercial bass fishery, which is what I'm whining about. This is obviously due to the fact none of our bordering states have a commercial fishery except RI, which is nearly impossible for out of staters to participate in.
As for the abuses, some of the Mass guys are obviously just as bad as anyone in the cheating dept.

Brian L · 12-06-2009, 10:10 AM

Perhaps then extending the commercial season to a larger amount of days....say 60 or so...but reduce the amount that can be taken daily, weekly, and monthly would go a long way towards not wiping out complete generations of fish

I've liked The RI comm set up until two years ago, when they closed Fridays and Saturdays (nice job by the weekday guys' lobby to keep the guys like me who work another job all week from selling on weekends). RI season happens twice a year and the daily limit is five (landings Sun-Thursday), instead of the 30 in Mass. Five fish works out good enough to be worth it for part time comms (like myself). Although I'm not sure the guys who depend on the dough would want to give up that bigger limit in Mass. Sounds like they won't have a choice.

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 02:32 PM

My problem is the rec catch down the coast is far greater than the com catch and it isn't enough for the rec guys They want more. They want a gamefish, but they want to be allowed to keep fish to. Give the mass com poundage to other states. Or better yet sell it out for a buck a fish bonus tag. The same people that want that want a 20" slot, they don't need to say more in my opinion. I really believe they don't have a clue in understanding the fishery....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pete_G · 12-06-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I really believe they don't have a clue in understanding the fishery....
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think that would apply to most people every where. It's probably the biggest problem.