year 2010 recreational catch statistics

[MAKAI]

You could say this is spending the money in the bank.

While our direct deposit is being reduced.

[Circlehook]

Is the Rec. total lbs caught, or lbs killed? Or is it considered one in the same?

That total is probably horrifically low. I for one have never had anyone come up to me at 2 in the morning to tally up my catch for the year.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

You could say this is spending the money in the bank.

While our direct deposit is being reduced.

Good analogy but (hopefully) a wrong conclusion. What we are supposed to be spending is the interest on the money in the bank and never touch the principal. We just have to hope they have the science right.

[MAKAI]

Hope ?

Now I am scared.
Just thinking how it turned out the last time someone told me to believe in Hope ( & change )

Better start taking golf lessons from Back Beach.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

The key take away for the purposes of this discussion is that the ACLs will be designed to keep the biomass at MSY. In the case of stripers the biomass is already above MSY, so there will be no tightening of the regulations. You can bitch and moan about it all you want, it won't affect national policy unless and until you get your Congressmen and Senators to change the rules of the game. Right now the ASMFC would be breaking the law to enact stricter regulation on stripers.

Problem is the MSY can be the most manipulated number of all of aspects of requlation. Even ASMFC guidelines allow for adjustment based on human factors. Plus they would not be breaking the law on this in that they can adjust the MSY. The only real hard number is if they drop below the target guidelines that forces them to take action but then target numbers will change as you adjust MSY.

Determining the MSY is based on so many factors the number is close to being a pull out of your butt number. The main factor being it has to be determined on the whole bio-mass rather then just stripers. If we were looking at reaching the MSY for just stripers we would stop all bunker fishing and reduce herring, mack and squid harvest to ensure a larger food supply for stripers so the ocean could support more. If we were looking to max out the MSY harvest of bunker we would try to kill all of the bluefish and stripers. Here is where ASMFC comes into play in that they are trying to set this balancing act. You do not need to have congress change anything. You need to get ASMFC to put more focus on increasing the major food fish (stripers, blues, fluke ..) MSY. This can be done by protecting the prey fish by recognizing that the MSY needs to be lower for them because we need them to feed the food fish to support higher MSY for them.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

Determining the MSY is based on so many factors the number is close to being a pull out of your butt number. The main factor being it has to be determined on the whole bio-mass rather then just stripers. If we were looking at reaching the MSY for just stripers we would stop all bunker fishing and reduce herring, mack and squid harvest to ensure a larger food supply for stripers so the ocean could support more. If we were looking to max out the MSY harvest of bunker we would try to kill all of the bluefish and stripers. Here is where ASMFC comes into play in that they are trying to set this balancing act. You do not need to have congress change anything. You need to get ASMFC to put more focus on increasing the major food fish (stripers, blues, fluke ..) MSY. This can be done by protecting the prey fish by recognizing that the MSY needs to be lower for them because we need them to feed the food fish to support higher MSY for them.

The Biomass necessary to support MSY is determined on a species for species basis. It is a finite number, there is no "max out" MSY, you are either over, under or at biomass MSY. That is true for fluke, blues, stripers and menhaden. Stripers are at a biomass over MSY, so no one is going to anything to reduce the fishing mortality on stripers. Fluke is at a biomass under MSY, so we will continue to see strict catch regulations until the biomass reaches MSY (which on target to be reached in 2013). The only "prey fish" that has a fishery management plan is Menhaden, and the menhaden biomass is at MSY, so don't expect any stricter regulations on Menhaden.

Both NMFS and ASMFC have been talking about regulating fisheries with an ecosystem approach for years, but so far neither of them has even taken a first step in that direction.

[Mr. Sandman]

Yeah but...

I read that they changed they way they computed this number and if you used the previous method we would be well under the limit. I don't know how accurate this is but it was in the fishermen a year or so ago.

Hey I really don't care what their methodology is...it clearly is not working. Further, doing nothing in the face of year after year of serious catch/breading decline as well as other damaging issues and ignoring all while waiting to hit some "magic number" computed at a whim... is a form of malpractice, and then you blame it on the laws (that they help create!!) and how their hands are tied... is not a good excuse...

One thing for sure is they know how to play games with the system...look at fluke and the games they play to keep it open esp in NY...it becomes a political matter and there is posturing buy all sides with an interest in how much money they will loose...it is laughable. Shut it down if there is a problem. Period.

These are just a bunch of weak scientists playing in a sandbox. In my eyes they don't have much credibility and the fishery management people should all be jailed. I am not kidding, what they are doing to the fisheries in this country is criminal.


I bet if you reduced the countries fisheries staff to the salaries of 6 people with a goal to restore all fisheries in 10 years, and giving them the ultimate control, let them call all the shots with no public comment, and answer only to one top guy, the problem could be fixed and we would save a boatload of money in the process.


Look, I can fix this SB thing right now, it is not hard and does not take huge enforcement nor tons of cash.

1) Gamefish status
2) 1@ 36 for rec's (with move to compete C&R if needed)
3) hard-core restoration of all forge fish. (this means shutting down mid water trawlers and many commercial bait operations probably permanently)

---do this and the sea will be rich in SB in 10 years---

wish list:
4) shut down all commercial indiscriminate net-fishing fishing operations inside of 12 miles of the shore.
5) no commercial boat can discard ANYTHING. It all must come back and be processed.

[MAKAI]

5) no commercial boat can discard ANYTHING. It all must come back and be processed.[/QUOTE]


That is so obvious it's stupid.
If it can be used it should be used.
Should never be crab food.

[JohnnySaxatilis]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

Hope ?

Better start taking golf lessons from Back Beach.

For you MAKAI, I'll do a half hour lesson for a darter. pm me

[MAKAI]

Originally Posted by JohnnySaxatilis

For you MAKAI, I'll do a half hour lesson for a darter. pm me

When you see my swing, it'll ruin yours.

I'm told it's contagious.

A pro I know saw it and he's been drinking hard ever since.

[JohnnySaxatilis]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

When you see my swing, it'll ruin yours.

I'm told it's contagious.

A pro I know saw it and he's been drinking hard ever since.

Trust me my friend, when you teach golf at a public driving range, do free clinics and all the other bs ive done, there isnt much I havent seen. Im sure we can do something about it. And if I suck at teaching and you still suck at golf, no brainer, we'll go fishing. And the pro you saw was just a half step behind, the trick is to drink BEFORE the lesson.