Trump tweeted he will "Address the Nation

[Got Stripers]

Does that Oval Office ten minute attempt to excite fear surprise anyone, it’s another rally based on fear and it’s the same old BS.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Does that Oval Office ten minute attempt to excite fear surprise anyone, it’s another rally based on fear and it’s the same old BS.
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Were his facts wrong? Did he say 90% of the heroin in the US comes through that border?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

I think he would be more popular if he would handle what his opponents or the Press say about him more like Reagan did. But that won't happen. And it would only be the backing of public popularity that would persuade his opponents to compromise. He doesn't seem to lack negotiating skills outside of dealing with Democrats. This is a critical time in determining the direction the country will take, especially for the Progressive agenda. And Trump, being an outsider to the normal politicking that has been so favorable to that agenda over the last several decades, makes him a threat that needs to be squelched. So, without a large public support that can scare the Dems into compromising, they won't. And the Progressive minded Republicans may not ultimately back him.

I think you’re close but I think the old school republicans don’t like him seizing control of the Republican Party and are looking to their vision of the future.
Trump is not growing the party, he is reducing it. People who identify as leaning republican are put off by his failure to be or inability to appear to be a truthful leader. Put that in just for you.
These guys are shrewd longtime politicians with long term goals and they will not be Nixoned again.
Either he pulls this off and skates thru the investigation issues or they turn and he’s gone.
If he’s gone I am not sure that Pence will be allowed to pardon him. They want to win the next election or at the very least be in a positive position, not viewed as enabling.
There’s a reason McConnell has been invisible and Graham has been helping.
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I think you’re close but I think the old school republicans don’t like him seizing control of the Republican Party and are looking to their vision of the future.
Trump is not growing the party, he is reducing it. People who identify as leaning republican are put off by his failure to be or inability to appear to be a truthful leader. Put that in just for you.
These guys are shrewd longtime politicians with long term goals and they will not be Nixoned again.
Either he pulls this off and skates thru the investigation issues or they turn and he’s gone.
If he’s gone I am not sure that Pence will be allowed to pardon him. They want to win the next election or at the very least be in a positive position, not viewed as enabling.
There’s a reason McConnell has been invisible and Graham has been helping.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I have no ability to predict with any degree of confidence what the future will be. What you say is plausible, but it is the very kind of political party machination that drove voters away from Trump's Republican opponents in the primaries and into choosing him.

A lot of folks were plain sick and tired of politics as usual and with politicians speaking the same old smooth but phony rhetoric. Trump was the bull in the china shop that smashed the typical stock of imitation figurines. He was an actual "agent of change." And if voters see that the old school Republicans you refer to are acting like typical power mongers who are trying to destroy him in order to seize back power, they may very well give Trump the nod again.

Regardless of the outcome, what you describe is not, to me, savory, but reeks of lying and treachery. Of course, that is the nature of party politics.

[wdmso]

Fear fear fear then a break to blame Democrats

( he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? this national emergency magically appeared !!! again funny how that works.

and even funner how his supporters here avoid that part of History like the plague

then fear fear fear god bless America ..

Sounds a lot like Trump is using locked out tactics

A lockout is generally to try to enforce terms upon a group of lawmakers during a dispute. lockout to convince the House to back down.

Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank...

Trump Hurting Americans to save Americans

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Were his facts wrong? Did he say 90% of the heroin in the US comes through that border?

Wrong or misleading, pretty much all of it.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Were his facts wrong? Did he say 90% of the heroin in the US comes through that border?

Yes most comes from Mexico but not in backpacks across the border, but even facts disproving his allegation would not be believed by the base; don’t confuse me with facts our minds are made up mentality continues.

Want to stop heroin, it’s not by building a wall, it’s by reducing the demand. For every horrific crime he highlighted, we could find tens of thousands of equally disturbing crimes committed by white citizens. Trump run on fear and division, he governs by the same MO and last night was just same old same old.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Yes most comes from Mexico but not in backpacks across the border, but even facts disproving his allegation would not be believed by the base; don’t confuse me with facts our minds are made up mentality continues.

Want to stop heroin, it’s not by building a wall, it’s by reducing the demand. For every horrific crime he highlighted, we could find tens of thousands of equally disturbing crimes committed by white citizens. Trump run on fear and division, he governs by the same MO and last night was just same old same old.
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"citizens"...key word


I'm scared...are you scared??? ...good grief...you crazy leftists keep talking yourselves into a tizzy....must be exhausting

[Got Stripers]

The only thing I’m scared about is how this clown would actually handle a “real” national emergency, but I guess Fox and Friends will be there to direct him🤮
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[Pete F.]

All the verbiage that came out in the lead up to Trumps speech was about terrorists, drugs, human trafficking, etc.
Then it becomes a humanitarian and security crisis, interesting that all of the sudden he needed a new spin.
Of course he couldn't do hard data because the numbers don't support his argument.

[Sea Dangles]

I knew this speech would bring out the flakes,keep it coming guys.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Fear fear fear then a break to blame Democrats

( he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? this national emergency magically appeared !!! again funny how that works.

and even funner how his supporters here avoid that part of History like the plague

then fear fear fear god bless America ..

Sounds a lot like Trump is using locked out tactics

A lockout is generally to try to enforce terms upon a group of lawmakers during a dispute. lockout to convince the House to back down.

Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank...

Trump Hurting Americans to save Americans

"he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? "

You are absolutely 100% correct. Trump campaigned on this issue, it wasa huge reason why he won the primary, and the GOP controlled congress for 2 years, and they did nothing. A lot of republican voters are ticked off. It won't make us vote for democrats, but we are mighty ticked off. You are absolutely 100% correct, it's sleazy for him to say that the dems are the only reason we don't have a wall. I don't know why they didn't do it when they could have.

"Fear fear fear"

A couple thousand murders? If his crime stats are accurate, don't places with high numbers of illegals, maybe have a legitimate concern? Just as it's wrong for Trump to refuse to accept some blame for not having the wall yet, it's equally wrong (in my opinion) for democrats and the media to say it's a manufactured crisis. The democrats passed some big bills in 2006 and 2013 to tackle immigration, so it seemed like they thought it was a crisis then.

Both sides are way more interested in using this issue as a club against their opponents, than they are in fixing it. This is a great example of why congress has a dismal approval rating, and they deserve it.

"Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank... "

Did you say the same thing when Obama oversaw a shutdown? Be honest...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I knew this speech would bring out the flakes,keep it coming guys.
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I thought he made some good points (IF his stats are accurate, and I don't know if they are, Spence says they were all wrong, but as expected, doesn't provide better sources with less scary stats).

But it was still too Trump-like in my opinion, too divisive. I think he could have improved his image by saying that he could have done this while the GOP controlled congress, but he blew it.

Both sides have been saying this is a crisis (despite the fact that today dems say it's not a crisis, that's not what they said not long ago), both sides campaign on this issue, and both sides have had control of the entire federal government for two years and did nothing.

Now, as you said, the pundits all came out to howl at the moon as soon as he was done. Their response, was as predictable, dishonest, and politically divisive as his speech.

I would genuinely like to know if his statistics were correct.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

For every horrific crime he highlighted, we could find tens of thousands of equally disturbing crimes committed by white citizens.
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BUT THE WHITE CITIZENS HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE.

God you are missing that point entirely. Obviously, more crime (in absolute numbers) is committed by citizens, because there are so many more citizens. But we know that Mexican gangs are using the open border to come in, and they are doing some horrific things. It's not worth trying to stop that?

And let me ask you this, as you're against the wall, but in favor of (I think) drones and cameras. If a camera spots a pack of MS13 members crossing the border 20 miles away from the nearest cops, how do you stop them from entering, exactly?

Cameras and drones might be great for spotting who is coming in, and counting them. How do things like cameras and drones stop these people from entering, if we're talking about 1,000 miles of border?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I knew this speech would bring out the flakes,keep it coming guys.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? "

You are absolutely 100% correct. Trump campaigned on this issue, it wasa huge reason why he won the primary, and the GOP controlled congress for 2 years, and they did nothing. A lot of republican voters are ticked off. It won't make us vote for democrats, but we are mighty ticked off. You are absolutely 100% correct, it's sleazy for him to say that the dems are the only reason we don't have a wall. I don't know why they didn't do it when they could have.

"Fear fear fear"

A couple thousand murders? If his crime stats are accurate, don't places with high numbers of illegals, maybe have a legitimate concern? Just as it's wrong for Trump to refuse to accept some blame for not having the wall yet, it's equally wrong (in my opinion) for democrats and the media to say it's a manufactured crisis. The democrats passed some big bills in 2006 and 2013 to tackle immigration, so it seemed like they thought it was a crisis then.

Both sides are way more interested in using this issue as a club against their opponents, than they are in fixing it. This is a great example of why congress has a dismal approval rating, and they deserve it.

"Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank... "

Did you say the same thing when Obama oversaw a shutdown? Be honest...

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I thought he made some good points (IF his stats are accurate, and I don't know if they are, Spence says they were all wrong, but as expected, doesn't provide better sources with less scary stats).

But it was still too Trump-like in my opinion, too divisive. I think he could have improved his image by saying that he could have done this while the GOP controlled congress, but he blew it.

Both sides have been saying this is a crisis (despite the fact that today dems say it's not a crisis, that's not what they said not long ago), both sides campaign on this issue, and both sides have had control of the entire federal government for two years and did nothing.

Now, as you said, the pundits all came out to howl at the moon as soon as he was done. Their response, was as predictable, dishonest, and politically divisive as his speech.

I would genuinely like to know if his statistics were correct.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

BUT THE WHITE CITIZENS HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE.

God you are missing that point entirely. Obviously, more crime (in absolute numbers) is committed by citizens, because there are so many more citizens. But we know that Mexican gangs are using the open border to come in, and they are doing some horrific things. It's not worth trying to stop that?

And let me ask you this, as you're against the wall, but in favor of (I think) drones and cameras. If a camera spots a pack of MS13 members crossing the border 20 miles away from the nearest cops, how do you stop them from entering, exactly?

Cameras and drones might be great for spotting who is coming in, and counting them. How do things like cameras and drones stop these people from entering, if we're talking about 1,000 miles of border?

You're correct, total meltdown in progress

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"he left out the fact republicans held both houses for 2 years until january and then once democrats took over the House ?? "

You are absolutely 100% correct. Trump campaigned on this issue, it wasa huge reason why he won the primary, and the GOP controlled congress for 2 years, and they did nothing. A lot of republican voters are ticked off. It won't make us vote for democrats, but we are mighty ticked off. You are absolutely 100% correct, it's sleazy for him to say that the dems are the only reason we don't have a wall. I don't know why they didn't do it when they could have.

"Fear fear fear"

A couple thousand murders? If his crime stats are accurate, don't places with high numbers of illegals, maybe have a legitimate concern? Just as it's wrong for Trump to refuse to accept some blame for not having the wall yet, it's equally wrong (in my opinion) for democrats and the media to say it's a manufactured crisis. The democrats passed some big bills in 2006 and 2013 to tackle immigration, so it seemed like they thought it was a crisis then.

Both sides are way more interested in using this issue as a club against their opponents, than they are in fixing it. This is a great example of why congress has a dismal approval rating, and they deserve it.

"Someone needs to tell Trump not everyone has 3 months worth of income in the bank... "

Did you say the same thing when Obama oversaw a shutdown? Be honest...

Please this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down but once agin you show your skills off suggesting they are the same

Yes dems passed bills so have reps on the issue but Trump keeps moving the goalposts on his own team

Are Trump or his supporters familiar with the fable of the boy who cried wolf? Because it’s playing out now in the White House l
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Please this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down but once agin you show your skills off suggesting they are the same

Yes dems passed bills so have reps on the issue but Trump keeps moving the goalposts on his own team

Are Trump or his supporters familiar with the fable of the boy who cried wolf? Because it’s playing out now in the White House l
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down "

Stop moving the goalposts. I was responding to your post, where you implied that shutdowns are wrong because of their impact on federal workers. That's what you said, and that's what I was responding to.

From the perspective of workers who didn't get paid, what was the difference between the two shutdowns?

"you show your skills off suggesting they are the same"

Never implied they were the same. But didn't both result in workers not getting paid? What's on display here, is your inability to admit your side plays these games too, and that it's equally wrong regardless of who does it. Nope. Political gamesmanship is only bothersome to you, when the GOP does it. I was pretty critical of the GOP in my response to you. When I mentioned Obama's shutdown, you can't bring yourself to say that also hurt federal workers, all you can do is say "it wasn't the same as this". OK, I tried engaging you like an adult, and it was a waste.

"Are Trump or his supporters familiar with the fable of the boy who cried wolf? Because it’s playing out now in the White House "

Tell that to the widow and 5 month-old left behind by Officer Singh.

Did that cop get murdered by an illegal who had two DUIs here? yes or no? Did the GOP fabricate it, or did it happen? I fit happened, how many Americans like that cop are you willing to sacrifice on the alter of liberalism, before you can admit that there's a problem?

Boy who cried wolf. Unfreakinbelievable.

You're a sheep. You cannot think critically, you can regurgitate what you hear on MSNBC, that's all. GOP is b-a-a-a-a-d.


.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You're correct, total meltdown in progress

Pete,you look in the mirror and see Jim.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

You're correct, total meltdown in progress

It's a "meltdown", if I ask if his statistics are correct, and if I ask how cameras stop illegal migrants?

[Pete F.]

Wonder what Devin Nunes comments are on this shutdown, his comments on the one in 2013 seem like they still fit with one small change from Ted Cruz to Trump


"We're this far, so you have to let it play out," he says. "I mean, we've already shut the government down ... and now you have to, I think, keep up with this Donald Trump lemming strategy. It's got to move forward."

But Nunes isn't convinced there really is a strategy.

"Now, we're letting these guys — this lemming crew — play out their hand," he says. "Now, they're kind of playing with no cards in their hand. But they don't know that yet."

[scottw]

I wouldn't worry about it...they're going to impeach the "motherf*&%er" any day now

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

From the perspective of workers who didn't get paid, what was the difference between the two shutdowns?

"you show your skills off suggesting they are the same"

Never implied they were the same. But didn't both result in workers not getting paid?
.

Just as an FYI, Fed Gov employees haven't missed a paycheck yet. This Friday will be the first one they miss.

and historically, even those who didn't work during the shutdowns in the past, have gotten retroactive pay covering the days they didn't work. So techniclly, they got paid.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Just as an FYI, Fed Gov employees haven't missed a paycheck yet. This Friday will be the first one they miss.

and historically, even those who didn't work during the shutdowns in the past, have gotten retroactive pay covering the days they didn't work. So techniclly, they got paid vacation.

fixed it

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Please this shut down is not remotely the same as Obama’s shut down but once agin you show your skills off suggesting they are the same

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Actually, Obama's was worse as it affected every Department. This one doesn't affect a lot of the DoD as they are already funded through 2019

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

fixed it

Not going to argue that.

but you'll be happy to know, I did not

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Actually, Obama's was worse as it affected every Department. This one doesn't affect a lot of the DoD as they are already funded through 2019

I would like to see WDMSO's response to this, I really would.

I can't imagine that furloughed workers will not get back pay. But it can create a hardship, especially at Christmastime, if they racked up credit card debt that they now have to pay interest on. And many of them live paycheck to paycheck (I do), what if their mortgage is due Friday?

The solution is so friggin simple. Dems give Trump 5B for his wall, the GOP agrees to give the Dems what they want on DACA, leading to legal residence but not citizenship. Everybody gets something they like, everybody has to deal with something they don't like.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The solution is so friggin simple. Dems give Trump 5B for his wall, the GOP agrees to give the Dems what they want on DACA, leading to legal residence but not citizenship. Everybody gets something they like, everybody has to deal with something they don't like.

Schumer already floated this and Trump rejected it.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I can't imagine that furloughed workers will not get back pay. But it can create a hardship, especially at Christmastime, if they racked up credit card debt that they now have to pay interest on. And many of them live paycheck to paycheck (I do), what if their mortgage is due Friday?

I hear ya, I'm not saying it's not going to create hardship, just putting it out there that as of today, pay hasn't been affected. It will, come Friday and it will suck for a lot of people.

I agree that they need to stop playing stupid friggin games and having hissy fits, and do their #^&#^&#^&#^&ing job and fix it.

[DZ]

Obviously both sides are looking for a win.

So which side will take the high road and cave on the issue?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Schumer already floated this and Trump rejected it.
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Says who? Mike Pence was on TV this weekend, and he said DACA was on the table as a deal for the wall. I saw Pence say it. Lindsay Graham is also saying it.