TWO BASS FOR RI CHARTER AND PARTY BOATS?

[buckman]

I think the problem here is that some want the fish to come back quick , no matter if some very good people ( yes honest guys have charter boats too ) get hurt in the process . It's simple not that the stock just fully recovers , it's gotta happen fast .
We are all above the pettiness , jealousy thing .
Correct ?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[afterhours]

Question for charter guys- do your clients all take home their limits when caught or do you keep and sell any of their catch. Not busting stones, honest question.

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by afterhours

Question for charter guys- do your clients all take home their limits when caught or do you keep and sell any of their catch. Not busting stones, honest question.

Don,
I can't speak for every charter but for the most part more often than not charters I take out, they want their limit of meat !
We get our share of clients in town just for business and are getting back on a plane leaving Boston the next day, that I know won't want to keep fish, though I've had a handful that still want meat and I've packaged, froze & shipped overnight for them (crazy $ )
1st thing I do every trip (after safety drill speech) I ask them if they intend to keep fish.
In 10 years not of chartering I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I've sold fish from charters.
If other charters have lots of clients that are willing to let them keep every fish that can be Legally sold on a commercial days after they shell out $600 - $1400 for the trip, I need to talk to them and learn how they talk them into it !
Anyone would be a fool not to if they can and it's legal.

[bobber]

you expect an "honest answer" to that? really?

[thefishingfreak]

It's not against the law to sell fish that your charters caught on a commercial day.
So yes, on Monday and Thursdays, a 6 pack boat with 8 people on board can kill 16 bass, give the Charter a 28" fish for the table, and sell all the remaining 15 fish (they must be over 34")
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[buckman]

That being said we do push that they will have the opportunity to see a couple hundred seals
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[stripermaineiac]

The CE is how a slot limit of 22 to 26 of 1 fish or 1 trophy fish 40 in or bigger comes about like up in Maine. You still only get one fish. Weird part is they still list a commercial take in Maine where there is no Com allowed at all. It's one reason many of us just plain don't trust the rule makers. They build deceit into the process to twist the science.

[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by stripermaineiac

The CE is how a slot limit of 22 to 26 of 1 fish or 1 trophy fish 40 in or bigger comes about like up in Maine. You still only get one fish. Weird part is they still list a commercial take in Maine where there is no Com allowed at all. It's one reason many of us just plain don't trust the rule makers. They build deceit into the process to twist the science.

Built in deceit? That 250 pounds shown from maine is the commercial yearly average from 1972-1979. Those are the base figures for commercial limits. And a history lesson


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[bobber]

Again- I'm sympathetic to the hardship that some of the captains are feeling, but this is the bed that we all must lie in. but its something that just about all of us must face at some point in our working lives- if the "environment" that we work in can no longer sustain us, its time to adapt or go extinct.

the rest of the fishing public shouldn't have to make concessions to accomodate that......

sorry- but thats the way it is.... (or should be IMHO)

[Sea Dangles]

The striped bas is the premier Gamefish in the northeast. The dominos that fall in the event of decline are far reaching.fuel,charters,bait,tackle shops,boat yards,tackle reps,right down to lure makers will feel the pinch. Somehow there is only one of these groups that feels the need to continue business as usual.
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[ivanputski]

If only they could realize that being permitted to carry on as usual to avoid financial hardship will only accelerate their financial hardship as the stocks continue to be depleted. It's very short sighted to want to carry on as usual, unless they realize the crash is inevitable and just want a few more years of good $$$, and then selling their boat before the final buzzer.
It's a case of "hey... someone's gonna kill the fish and get paid, better me than the next guy" mentality.


It all boils down to the fact that while we are all fishermen, we may value bass for different reasons...
While I see bass as a hobby, time spent fishing with my father, my kids, relaxation, fun... others simply see pounds and dollars.

For me, killing less fish equals more good times fishing with my family in the future. While for others, being forced to kill less fish means less money.

Sorry to have to make points like this, but this is the conversation... How different anglers value the stock for different reasons, and their motivation for why they want fish either protected or not.

I think my position is known... gonna try take a step back from posting on this issue.

[buckman]

Did I miss something ? Are these fish about to go extinct?
You guys talk as if keeping a few fish on a charter boat is going to collapse the stock and the kids of tomorrow will only be able to see striped bass in books and videos.
Once again I will ask you .
If the plan in place will help the bass population get to a point where you guys are comfortable with , then why put people out of business ?
This is pettiness .
I wonder how many of you have actually been offshore and seein the number of striped bass?
Think about it, hundreds of acres of sand eels , mackerel,and herring and fewer seals. They are here in great numbers .
Unfortunately you can't fish for them there .
I'm going to ask a question based on my own theory ? Is it possible that the inshore bass population has just moved off shore ? It happens with Tuna . They just don't show up in your old spots year to year but that doesn't mean they're not out there
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

Did I miss something ? Are these fish about to go extinct? no but the decline is documented in many ways
You guys talk as if keeping a few fish on a charter boat is going to collapse the stock and the kids of tomorrow will only be able to see striped bass in books and videos. noone said that
Once again I will ask you .
If the plan in place will help the bass population get to a point where you guys are comfortable with , then why put people out of business ? the plan in place is 50% likely to help the bass population get to a "comfortable" level
This is pettiness .
I wonder how many of you have actually been offshore and seein the number of striped bass? I've seen this and similar statements throughout the season where guys on boats gaze into their fish finders and declare there are millions of bass...this does not seem to be a good way to judge the health of the stock..if they circled the area that they are observing on a map of the striper coast it would hardly represent a trend
Think about it, hundreds of acres of sand eels , mackerel,and herring and fewer seals. They are here in great numbers .
Unfortunately you can't fish for them there .
I'm going to ask a question based on my own theory ? Is it possible that the inshore bass population has just moved off shore ? possible? ...sure...likely?.....probably not given the history....there is ample bait inshore as wellIt happens with Tuna . They just don't show up in your old spots year to year but that doesn't mean they're not out there
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

all that said Buck, I do understand more and more where you are coming from and I believe that if in fact, the guys that you are speaking for/about can demonstrate a hardship I'd support some kind of exemption but I haven't really heard a reasonable argument yet as to why 1 or 2 is a gamechanger...and that may be a result of not understanding first hand what goes on with these boats and their clientele

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

all that said Buck, I do understand more and more where you are coming from and I believe that if in fact, the guys that you are speaking for/about can demonstrate a hardship I'd support some kind of exemption but I haven't really heard a reasonable argument yet as to why 1 or 2 is a gamechanger...and that may be a result of not understanding first hand what goes on with these boats and their clientele

Well actually Scott most good captains can look at the fishfinder and tell the difference between bass and other fish but the fish I'm talking about I see boiling on the surface . acres and acres and acres of them.
I'm not sure what you're looking for. When you see a guy selling the boat and closing his business because they have been regulated out of fishing then I think that shows hardship.
We had numerous cancellations this year because of cod regulations .
Since a lot of this seems to be based on hunches, my hunch is there will be cancellations due to more restrictive striper regulations.
It's going to happen ...even for the guys that are for one fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[scottw]

Originally Posted by buckman

Well actually Scott most good captains can look at the fishfinder and tell the difference between bass and other fish but the fish I'm talking about I see boiling on the surface . acres and acres and acres of them.
I'm not sure what you're looking for. some evidence that a charter will go out of business or suffer or that their clients will not book a fishing trip to fish on the acres of bass if their party can only keep 1 fish per client as opposed to two....how do largely catch and release charters stay in business?When you see a guy selling the boat and closing his business because they have been regulated out of fishing then I think that shows hardship.
We had numerous cancellations this year because of cod regulations .
Since a lot of this seems to be based on hunches, my hunch is there will be cancellations due to more restrictive striper regulations.
It's going to happen ...even for the guys that are for one fish.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

it sounds like you believe it's about the meat and not the experience necessarily...the new limit is on fish kept, there's no limit on how many you can catch, from your description it shouldn't be any problem keeping the clients tight all day...you'd think that would keep most guys fully booked

[buckman]

Originally Posted by scottw

it sounds like you believe it's about the meat and not the experience necessarily...the new limit is on fish kept, there's no limit on how many you can catch, from your description it shouldn't be any problem keeping the clients tight all day...you'd think that would keep most guys fully booked

This is why nothing gets done in the government.....
People take what you say and take it to the most extreme level and try to use it as an example of reality.
It's not just about the meat or the experience, it's about both. I'm not naïve to what you have to do to bring a client a fun time.
This argument has gone circular .
I'm out ......maybe 😊
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by buckman

I'm going to ask a question based on my own theory ? Is it possible that the inshore bass population has just moved off shore ? It happens with Tuna . They just don't show up in your old spots year to year but that doesn't mean they're not out there
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Fair question, and the answer is yes, it is possible.

May I ask a question? Is there any data to suggest that if charters were limited to keeping 1 fish instead of 2, that your bookings would decrease? What's so magical about that second fish, that it makes it a significant inflection point on the supply/demand curve?

I am limited to my personal experience here. I don't like 6-pack type of fishing (I'm a light tackle guy), but I usually do 2 trips per year on a 6-pack boat - one with my kids and nephews, one with college buddies as a reunion. If the bag limit were cut to 1 per guy, it would not cross my mind, not for a nanosecond, of cancelling the trips. Obviously that's just me.

They can't all be doing it just for the meat, because it's a whole lot cheaper to go buy fresh fish at a fish market (though that's not as fresh as just off the boat). Some pepole like the entire experience of fishing, and not everyone is in it solely for the meat. Maybe the party boats who groundfish, that's a situation where th egoal is filling th efreezer.

I could certainly be wrong. And the scientists could certainly be wrong as well, about the health of the stocks.

If CT boats were limited to 1 fish per guy, and RI boats coul dtake 2, I'd be convinced that th elaws were screwing the CT guys. If veeryone is limited to 1 fish...I'd just be suprised if your bookings decreased noticably, because the overall experience of the fishing trip hasn't changed that much. But that's just me, and you know your business better than I ever will, but I do think I have my finger on the pulse of the average Joe out there.

[Sea Dangles]

The argument that all the bass have moved offshore is total bull. Are there fish over the line? Of course,but if these mythical schools of bass are the basis for any argument we are screwed. For some reason the discussion is always simplified by certain groups as being"just one more fish" but that language is insulting due to the expanse of the fleet. I will say this,an area like the canal,which has become the shore bound Block Island will benefit greatly if the rules are followed. Ask the folks down south about the fish over the fence...It is a fishery that has collapsed for them to a much greater degree than up here. 10 years ago they filled a dumpster a day with racks,now the boats stay tied up. THAT is cutting off your nose despite your face.
Crystal ball?
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[Cool Beans]

In my humble opinion I find it silly and kind of pisses me off, when we have so many people mad at legitimate and LEGAL charter guys that intend to follow the law. It is legal for them to petition for the 2nd fish, if they get that approved then so be it. If they go with the 1 @ 28 and one in the "trophy class" it is not the same as 2 fish killed since out of 3 or 4 clients maybe 1 or 2 of them will catch the larger bass to keep. I can see how it could be a 28% cut in bass killed, using this match. Some charters may catch all of their quota of the larger bass, but a lot of them wont always catch the 2nd larger fish.

I am not a charter guy, but from reading all of this anger and BS... I am in 100% agreement with Buckman.

Legal charters following the law (if they get the 2 fish exception) should not be a reason for people on here to blast them for making an honest LEGAL living..... blame the law not the charters.... I remember reading on here about empty meeting halls and only a few attending them.... kind of like not voting and complaining about who won......

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

Legal charters following the law (if they get the 2 fish exception) should not be a reason for people on here to blast them for making an honest LEGAL living..... blame the law not the charters.... ......

But if it's a bad law (and that's a big "if"), and if the charter guys are advocating for that law based solely on greed (and that's not a big "if"), an dthat law gives some people more of a right to a public resource than the rest of us (and that's not debatable) it's fair to criticize them.

There are bad laws. People who advocate for bad laws for personal profit, potentially ta the expense of a public resource, are fair game for criticism.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But if it's a bad law (and that's a big "if"), and if the charter guys are advocating for that law based solely on greed (and that's not a big "if"), an dthat law gives some people more of a right to a public resource than the rest of us (and that's not debatable) it's fair to criticize them.

There are bad laws. People who advocate for bad laws for personal profit, potentially ta the expense of a public resource, are fair game for criticism.

Jim, If it truly is the "conservational equivalent" they are not getting more of a share, just different rules.

[bobber]

the idea that really pisses me off in all this is that charter guys think they deserve a double standard..... that somehow they're "making a living on the water" entitles them to have a different set of rules than what applies to the general public. EQUALLY
even though it is a public resource, that exists in the public domain. charter guys didn't do anything more to help rebuild the fishery, and certainly flourished when bass made their comeback. now they should share in the reductions to the fishery
EQUALLY

[piemma]

Originally Posted by bobber

the idea that really pisses me off in all this is that charter guys think they deserve a double standard..... that somehow they're "making a living on the water" entitles them to have a different set of rules than what applies to the general public. EQUALLY
even though it is a public resource, that exists in the public domain. charter guys didn't do anything more to help rebuild the fishery, and certainly flourished when bass made their comeback. now they should share in the reductions to the fishery
EQUALLY

Right on point in my opinion. Great post!

[Got Stripers]

Agree with the above, we all made our bed, we all own the results. Nature took care of all this stuff on it's own before man came along, prey populations bloomed, predator populations followed, prey dropped due to increased predation and predator followed suit. Nobody above us on the food chain or we wouldn't be debating this and with politics and the almighty $$$$ in the mix, nothing is easy or quick.

[tlapinski]

This just came across my desk, NJ has submitted its proposals to the ASMFC:

http://www.thefisherman.com/index.cf...9&ParentCat=19

[big jay]

Originally Posted by tlapinski

This just came across my desk, NJ has submitted its proposals to the ASMFC:

http://www.thefisherman.com/index.cf...9&ParentCat=19

Here you go guys - EQUALITY between For-Hire and straight recreational.

2 Fish for everyone, plus since New Jersey ended commercial fishing, they still have their "bonus" tag for a 3rd recreational fish.

Btw - I called the "CE" loophole was going to be a sh*tshow.
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[thefishingfreak]

Originally Posted by bobber

the idea that really pisses me off in all this is that charter guys think they deserve a double standard..... that somehow they're "making a living on the water" entitles them to have a different set of rules than what applies to the general public. EQUALLY
even though it is a public resource, that exists in the public domain. charter guys didn't do anything more to help rebuild the fishery, and certainly flourished when bass made their comeback. now they should share in the reductions to the fishery
EQUALLY

We are all sharing the reduction EQUALLY. All we are asking is for a different option to achieve the same outcome.

Originally Posted by tlapinski

This just came across my desk, NJ has submitted its proposals to the ASMFC:

http://www.thefisherman.com/index.cf...9&ParentCat=19

"To comply with this directive, the Council is considering two options and both of them allow for a possession of two striped bass"

Looks like New Jersey is asking for 2 fish also...
Everyone to there bunkers!

[BasicPatrick]

The for hire fleet not only made money but grew under the 1 fish @ 28" Striped Bass regulation...to deny that fact is insane.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

The for hire fleet not only made money but grew under the 1 fish @ 28" Striped Bass regulation...to deny that fact is insane.

When was it ever 1 fish at 28 inches?

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

When was it ever 1 fish at 28 inches?

Prior to the Am 6 increase to 2 @ 28" the coastal regs were 1 @ 28" for quite a few years. I still have all of that analysis in a box somewhere in my closet.