Charlottesville

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Obviously Trump was wrong. It's not about many sides or all sides. It's only about white supremacists:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mas...D=ansmsnnews11

Since 911 number of people killed by 28 people were killed as a result of white supremacist by A Ntifa ZERO


Another False equivalence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Since 911 number of people killed by 28 people were killed as a result of white supremacist by A Ntifa ZERO


Another False equivalence

Oh, so if you go by absolute numbers, can we presume you have told Black Lives Matter to stop worrying about white cops, and concentrate on black-on-black violence? After all, which causes more deaths?

Obviously, we need to prioritize our efforts. That doesn't mean that we can't condemn violence by white supremacists, as well as violence by lefty anarchists. In fact, that's exactly what our President did, if memory serves.

You walked right into that one...

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Since 911 number of people killed by 28 people were killed as a result of white supremacist by A Ntifa ZERO


Another False equivalence

Your "False equivalence" accusation is false equivalence. I did not propose an equivalence.

I don't know which violent groups are more equal than the others. Certainly, comparing the number of people killed "as a result of white supremacist[s]" (all such groups?, and what does as a result of mean?) in the last 16 years to a fairly new violence perpetrated by one group (in the past year or two?) is questionable, if not downright misleading.

And it doesn't have anything to do with my post.

I was just pointing out how wrong Trump was when he called out all sides for violence. Obviously, only white supremacists have been violent.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Your "False equivalence" accusation is false equivalence. I did not propose an equivalence.

I don't know which violent groups are more equal than the others. Certainly, comparing the number of people killed "as a result of white supremacist[s]" (all such groups?, and what does as a result of mean?) in the last 16 years to a fairly new violence perpetrated by one group (in the past year or two?) is questionable, if not downright misleading.

And it doesn't have anything to do with my post.

I was just pointing out how wrong Trump was when he called out all sides for violence. Obviously, only white supremacists have been violent.

Yes, all the white supremacists who rioted in Ferguson.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Your "False equivalence" accusation is false equivalence. I did not propose an equivalence.




I was just pointing out how wrong Trump was when he called out all sides for violence. Obviously, only white supremacists have been violent.

Sure you did... and so did he .... but thats not the real issue now is it... It amazing to see all the push back against Trump and his Comment "Trump when he called out all sides for violence. " From all sides R and D and from leaders around the world on his statement
or was that Fake news?

Its like climate change Conservatives love to find one needle in a Hay stack staying its not happening due to human activity and push that narrative over and over and now you see the same again parsing words to tell us what Trump he ment to say and how everyone doesn't give a chance ..

it get old just like when a friend brings their kid over. who's a Spoiled Brat screaming and crying and the Parents just Say Jonny is just tired .. Some here need to stop being Trumps parents He's not tired

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I never said that so in what post did you think I said it?

I clearly stated any violence is not good but I was more concerned w/the Nazis, KKK than with Antifa (which I view as a group formed against the growing presence of right wing hate groups).

You are more concerned with NeoNazis then a leftist revolution. I see both as abhorrent and incompatible with common decency. When they get violent, people die and neither one of those true believers really care.

Antifa has historical roots in communism / marxism "uniting" against fascism and appeals to commies and anarchists (that love to rally against anything). Professional Ideological schitt stirrers.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Sure you did... and so did he .... but thats not the real issue now is it...

You're right. The issue is the attempt to create an issue when there is none.

It amazing to see all the push back against Trump and his Comment "Trump when he called out all sides for violence. " From all sides R and D and from leaders around the world on his statement
or was that Fake news?

The push back is the attempt to create an issue. The Fake news is the omission or minimalization of those who did not have an issue with what Trump said.

Its like climate change Conservatives love to find one needle in a Hay stack staying its not happening due to human activity and push that narrative over and over and now you see the same again parsing words to tell us what Trump he ment to say and how everyone doesn't give a chance ..

There is no connection to climate change--many of those who found what Trump said to be reasonable may well have differing views on climate change.

There is no parsing of words by Trump's defenders. The exact words are defended. The parsing, if there is any, is done by the fakers who want to change Trump's words into a message of approval for white supremacy.

it get old just like when a friend brings their kid over. who's a Spoiled Brat screaming and crying and the Parents just Say Jonny is just tired .. Some here need to stop being Trumps parents He's not tired

Trump gets criticism by those "some here" when he deserves it. On the other hand, there are "some here" who see everything he says and does as being wrong, racist, homophobic, sexist, yada, yada, yada--that is the fake news.

[detbuch]

Very, very interesting--Former "antifa style" radical speaks out. WDMSO--watch the whole damn thing . . . then damn it:

[PaulS]

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

He says that they are fine because he was told that doing so is a perfect political tactic to further divide the people of this country and rally his base of white conservative voters who are threatened and scared of people of color and people who are not like them coming in and taking over.

He gets to rally his base and distract everyone from the real problems that are going on....

Sad.
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[DZ]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

Paul,
From what I understood and the way I interpreted his statement was that there were residents at the protest who were not white supremacists or KKK members and who legitimately did not want the statues removed. There were no doubt others at the protest who wanted the statues removed but were not necessarily members of Antifa (like the young women who was killed). These people/groups could be what Trump considered "fine" people. Just ordinary Americans who picked a side and did not resort to violence.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by DZ

Paul,
From what I understood and the way I interpreted his statement was that there were residents at the protest who were not white supremacists or KKK members and who legitimately did not want the statues removed. There were no doubt others at the protest who wanted the statues removed but were not necessarily members of Antifa (like the young women who was killed). These people/groups could be what Trump considered "fine" people. Just ordinary Americans who picked a side and did not resort to violence.

That's what most people, without a bitter hatred for Trump, took it to mean as well.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

That's what most people, without a bitter hatred for Trump, took it to mean as well.

I think that is too nuanced for Pres. Trump.

Does that mean I have a bitter hatred for him?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Does that mean I have a bitter hatred for him?

Are you saying you don't?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by DZ

Paul,
From what I understood and the way I interpreted his statement was that there were residents at the protest who were not white supremacists or KKK members and who legitimately did not want the statues removed. There were no doubt others at the protest who wanted the statues removed but were not necessarily members of Antifa (like the young women who was killed). These people/groups could be what Trump considered "fine" people. Just ordinary Americans who picked a side and did not resort to violence.

BINGO.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

"So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA"

They aren't. The ones who truly are Nazis and KKK, are bad people. Fair enough?

Was every single person protesting the removal of the statues, a Nazi or a Klansmen? I don't know. Condaleeza Rice is adamantly opposed to removing the statues, but didn't march for it. Does that make her a Nazi or a Klansman?

I don't know that anyone is saying that white supremacists are morally superior to the ANTIFA anarchists. Can't we say they are both bad? Maybe not equally bad, but both bad nonetheless?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA"

They aren't. The ones who truly are Nazis and KKK, are bad people. Fair enough?

Was every single person protesting the removal of the statues, a Nazi or a Klansmen? I don't know. Condaleeza Rice is adamantly opposed to removing the statues, but didn't march for it. Does that make her a Nazi or a Klansman?It doesn't make her a nazi and no one called her that. But if she was there to protest the removal and heard the vile chants about Jews and kept marching and didn't leave that would make her complicit.

I don't know that anyone is saying that white supremacists are morally superior to the ANTIFA anarchists. I think a fair interpretation of what Pres. Trump said was that they were equal in some way. Can't we say they are both bad? Maybe not equally bad, but both bad nonetheless?

Yes, antifa/anarchists are bad when they resort to violence but they don't have a history of killings like the KKK or Nazis so I wouldn't put them in the same sentence as Nazis. And I'm not here to defend them in any way - just comment on what our Pres. said.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Yes, antifa/anarchists are bad when they resort to violence but they don't have a history of killings like the KKK or Nazis so I wouldn't put them in the same sentence as Nazis. And I'm not here to defend them in any way - just comment on what our Pres. said.

"It doesn't make her a nazi and no one called her that. But if she was there to protest the removal and heard the vile chants about Jews and kept marching and didn't leave that would make her complicit"

Agreed. Well said.

"I think a fair interpretation of what Pres. Trump said was that they were equal in some way"

Most of the criticism I saw, was that he sympathized with the Nazis, and I think that was a looney tunes interpretation of what he said. He condemned violence and bigotry on all sides. Paul, if you look at what he has historically said on video, he condemns white supremacists again and again and again. Sure, he could have used better language to single out the Nazis. But it's quite a leap from that, to saying he sympathizes with them.

As usual, his language choice could have been better. That will be a very consistent criticism of the man.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Yes, antifa/anarchists are bad when they resort to violence but they don't have a history of killings like the KKK or Nazis so I wouldn't put them in the same sentence as Nazis. And I'm not here to defend them in any way - just comment on what our Pres. said.

Nazis don't have the same history of killing people as Commies?

Or Make Believe Nazis (the kind we really have) don't have much a history of killing, no more than the Make Believe Commies.

I do think there is enough chance for real violence on the hard right Nazi/Klan types, just as there is from the Commie/Marxist/Anarchist bend.

Should take a close look at the Socialist Rifle Association, Redneck Revolt, and John Brown Gun Club. No better, or IMO, different, than militarized NeoNazis.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

So for the 3rd time - how are the Nazi's and KKK "fine" people in VA.

I know President Trump has reposted things from Neo Nazi sites in the past but can someone pls. explain how they are fine people and how did he know that?

There are more than 15 historical videos of Trump explicitly condemning David Duke, the Klan, white supremacists, and Nazis, etc...

Given that, is it really beyond your reach, to fathom that Trump was referring to people who don't want the statues removed, but who aren't Nazis or in the Klan?

[detbuch]

Joe McCarthy did not make up commies. He was way, way more right about the commies than wrong. The commie infiltration had even been worse than he imagined. He was smeared by made up lies. This has been documented.

And when the KKK killed most of the people that they did, they were solidly Democrat. And, no, the Dems and Repubs did not "switch." The Dems did not suddenly become Republican, nor did the Repubs suddenly become Democrat. If we want to talk about making something up, the "switch" is a made up story. If anything, when VOTERS, especially younger ones, in the South saw the Progressive mentality of the Dems, they started to vote more for the party that represented conservative American values. The Republican Party did not switch. It did not suddenly become Progressive. And, what is not mentioned by the "switch" believers, the South became less racist after it became Republican.

Both parties were evolving and changing. Both started moving to the left. That move has been almost constant in the last couple of decades. The Dems are pretty far left now, the Repubs are moderately so.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I don't think we will ever know what percentage of the protesters were average Joe's and Janes with old southern roots, that didn't want to see part of their history torn down.

I just think Trump's mouth is so far ahead of common sense that he can't help setting himself up for constant criticism from the press. It was a very bad time to make that statement, that point might have been made separately at a later debate, one tied strictly to the reasoning for removing these historical statues.

It is difficult for Trump to react well when the media is all over him both justly and unjustly. He never got a fair chance though I still think he would have screwed it up.

Originally Posted by PaulS

We can disagree bc at this point I 'm more concerned w/a bunch of Neo Nazis and KKK.

You're more OK with a violent left revolution?


Neither side is to be given shelter to their ideas.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by JohnR

You're more OK with a violent left revolution?


Neither side is to be given shelter to their ideas.

I never said that so in what post did you think I said it?

I clearly stated any violence is not good but I was more concerned w/the Nazis, KKK than with Antifa (which I view as a group formed against the growing presence of right wing hate groups).

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I clearly stated any violence is not good but I was more concerned w/the Nazis, KKK than with Antifa (which I view as a group formed against the growing presence of right wing hate groups).

The problem lies in what your definition of "Right Wing Hate Groups" are versus what their definition of "Right Wing Hate Groups" are.

[The Dad Fisherman]

..

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

..

It is LONG past time to tell the people who make a living by fanning the flames of racial tension, to go jump in a lake.

I am starting to remember, deep in my core, what unites us as Americans.

Your photo is better than mine. Thanks for sharing.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

..

when race hustlers seek to promote division because it is politically expedient, it is everyone's duty to stop listening.

[The Dad Fisherman]

I always thought you should judge a man by the quality of his character and not the color of his skin. That used to be the right thing to do.

All of a sudden it wasn't anymore....don't know when that happened, but we need to go back to that.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I always thought you should judge a man by the quality of his character and not the color of his skin. That used to be the right thing to do.

All of a sudden it wasn't anymore....don't know when that happened, but we need to go back to that.

It happened at the end of Bush 43's first term. Those that run the Democratic Party, with their pals in the media and academia, figured that if they splintered off enough "victim" groups to account for 51% of the voters, and pit them against everyone else, that would help them win. Especially in the wake of the Gulf War becoming unpopular.

It worked for awhile at the national level, not sure it ever worked at the state level. At this point, it's all they have, so they just scream "hate crime!" louder and louder, every time they don't get their way.
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[PaulS]

Couple quick thoughts. Thanks John for your definition if there is a lefty Revolution I would be just as concerned as I am about white supremacist neo-nazis and the KKK. The other post made me laugh yep all the Democrats all their fault. Had nothing to do with white push back to Obama. Donald Trump and is birther / / Muslim has not had nothing to do with it. Just because there's a white guy helping some black guys and a black guy helping some white guys all is all is copacetic. We still have a president who tried explaining away neo-nazis by every time he criticized them added something about the left. Look at how much hate crimes have been committed by the left and the right and tell me it's the left's fault.
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