Memo is out

[spence]

Jim, can we get an update on the memo?

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, can we get an update on the memo?

It’s a mental disorder and the gay baker was right.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Nebe

It’s a mental disorder and the gay baker was right.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What about her emails???

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

It’s a mental disorder and the gay baker was right.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Both sides saying the exact opposite as usual. Most people, myself included, will believe their side is probably right, and the other side is lying.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Both sides saying the exact opposite as usual.

Well, no that's not really the case. The Schiff memo disproves the Nunes memo mostly by not saying the information is wrong, but by providing the intentionally omitted details that made is so misleading.

The only item in the Nunes memo that the Dems say was fabricated was the point about how the FISA warrant wouldn't have been issued without the Dossier. People in that meeting said that was taken completely out of context.

You're just going to have to face up to the fact that once again you were duped, all in the name of protecting mother Russia.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Well, no that's not really the case. The Schiff memo disproves the Nunes memo mostly by not saying the information is wrong, but by providing the intentionally omitted details that made is so misleading.

The only item in the Nunes memo that the Dems say was fabricated was the point about how the FISA warrant wouldn't have been issued without the Dossier. People in that meeting said that was taken completely out of context.

You're just going to have to face up to the fact that once again you were duped, all in the name of protecting mother Russia.

"but by providing the intentionally omitted details that made is so misleading"

Did the FISA application include some reliance on the Steele dossier, which was paid for by the Clinton campaign?

"how the FISA warrant wouldn't have been issued without the Dossier"

I presume only the judge knows if that's true.

"You're just going to have to face up to the fact that once again you were duped, all in the name of protecting mother Russia"

I know, I know. Hilary is just the walking embodiment of virtue, and those mean Republicans just won't let her try to serve the world, seeking no gain for herself. I say we strip Mother Theresa of her sainthood, and give it to Hilary.

[PaulS]

The Dem. memo basically called Nunes a liar.

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The Dem. memo basically called Nunes a liar.

No, the Dems are calling Nunes and the Administration liars and providing hard evidence. Did you see Nunes talking about this over the weekend? He looked like when son stops up the toilet and blames it on his brother.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

The Dem. memo basically called Nunes a liar.

if the dem. memo is dishonest what does that make nunes?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, the request has to be approved by Federal Judges before the FBI can sign off on it.

McCarthy: Schiff makes much of the fact that the four FISA warrants (the original authorization and three renewals, at 90-day intervals) were signed by four different FISA-court judges — all apparently appointed to the federal district courts by Republican presidents. This hardly commends the validity of the warrants . . . the issue here is failure to disclose information to the court. If a judge was not made aware of material facts, the judge’s authorization of a warrant does not validate the derelict application.


The Dossier wasn't provided by an adversarial campaign, it was by a law firm

McCarthy: "If you know it’s necessary to disclose that “identified U.S. person” Simpson was being paid by “a U.S.-based law firm” (Perkins-Coie), then it is at least equally necessary to disclose that, in turn, the law firm was being paid by its clients: the Clinton campaign and the DNC. To tell half the story is patently misleading."


and the FISA request clearly stated it was political opposition research.

McCarthy: Schiff comically highlights this DOJ assertion as if it were his home run, when it is in fact damning: “The FBI speculates that the identified U.S. Person was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1’s campaign.” This is the vague reference that Democrats and Trump critics laughably say was adequate disclosure of the dossier’s political motivation. But why would the FBI “speculate” that a political motive was “likely” involved when, in reality, the FBI well knew that a very specific political motive was precisely involved?

There was no reason for supposition here. If the FBI had transparently disclosed that the dossier was a product of the Clinton campaign — oh, sorry, didn’t mean to unmask; if the FBI had transparently disclosed that the dossier was a product of “Candidate #2’s” campaign — then the court would have been informed about the apodictic certainty that the people behind the dossier were trying to discredit the campaign of Candidate #2’s opponent. It is disingenuous to tell a judge that something is “likely” when, in fact, it is beyond any doubt.



Mind bending.

Your posts often are.

[scottw]

remember when Trump was mocked and ridiculed for his wire tapping claims....

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by scottw

remember when Trump was mocked and ridiculed for his wire tapping claims....

Yes, and he still is and should be.

"Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"

"I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!"

"How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

McCarthy: Schiff makes much of the fact that the four FISA warrants (the original authorization and three renewals, at 90-day intervals) were signed by four different FISA-court judges — all apparently appointed to the federal district courts by Republican presidents. This hardly commends the validity of the warrants . . . the issue here is failure to disclose information to the court. If a judge was not made aware of material facts, the judge’s authorization of a warrant does not validate the derelict application.

It's clear now that SOME of the information used in the FISA application was from Steele which was made clear to the Federal judge. If the judge isn't satisfied with the justification for the warrant they don't have to approve it. McCarthy is en effect calling these Federal judges incompetent. Considering he's only seen what's been declassified that's laughable.

McCarthy: "If you know it’s necessary to disclose that “identified U.S. person” Simpson was being paid by “a U.S.-based law firm” (Perkins-Coie), then it is at least equally necessary to disclose that, in turn, the law firm was being paid by its clients: the Clinton campaign and the DNC. To tell half the story is patently misleading."

McCarthy has a clever use of quotes here to mislead his reader, yourself. The FISA requests don't name Simpson or Perkins-Coie because that is the protocol to not name US persons or entities unless they are the subject of the surveillance. By co-mingling the quotes from the warrant with what we know today McCarthy is trying to establish a quid pro quo that would be improper.

McCarthy: Schiff comically highlights this DOJ assertion as if it were his home run, when it is in fact damning: “The FBI speculates that the identified U.S. Person was likely looking for information that could be used to discredit Candidate #1’s campaign.” This is the vague reference that Democrats and Trump critics laughably say was adequate disclosure of the dossier’s political motivation. But why would the FBI “speculate” that a political motive was “likely” involved when, in reality, the FBI well knew that a very specific political motive was precisely involved?

At the time of the FISA request Simpson had not testified about the full nature of their research nor had the FBI led any formal investigation into Steele's potential bias. To hang all this on the word "likely" is comical.

There was no reason for supposition here. If the FBI had transparently disclosed that the dossier was a product of the Clinton campaign — oh, sorry, didn’t mean to unmask; if the FBI had transparently disclosed that the dossier was a product of “Candidate #2’s” campaign — then the court would have been informed about the apodictic certainty that the people behind the dossier were trying to discredit the campaign of Candidate #2’s opponent. It is disingenuous to tell a judge that something is “likely” when, in fact, it is beyond any doubt.

How far did that Nunes "unmasking" stunt go before it was discredited as well?

McCarthy is just presenting one straw man after another. The FBI, the Federal Judiciary, the Clinton campaign...they're all in it together!

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

It's clear now that SOME of the information used in the FISA application was from Steele which was made clear to the Federal judge. If the judge isn't satisfied with the justification for the warrant they don't have to approve it. McCarthy is en effect calling these Federal judges incompetent. Considering he's only seen what's been declassified that's laughable.

Pertinent information was withheld from the FISA Court.

McCarthy has a clever use of quotes here to mislead his reader, yourself. The FISA requests don't name Simpson or Perkins-Coie because that is the protocol to not name US persons or entities unless they are the subject of the surveillance. By co-mingling the quotes from the warrant with what we know today McCarthy is trying to establish a quid pro quo that would be improper.

Informing the Court about who paid Perkins-Cole was not withheld because of the protocol. HRC could have been referred to as Candidate #2 just as Trump was referred to as Candidate #1. And the DNC could have been named without breaking protocol.

At the time of the FISA request Simpson had not testified about the full nature of their research nor had the FBI led any formal investigation into Steele's potential bias. To hang all this on the word "likely" is comical.

Did the FBI not know at the time they applied for the FISA warrants that Hillary and the DNC paid the law firm? I don't know. It is implied or alleged that they did. Perhaps that is not true.

How far did that Nunes "unmasking" stunt go before it was discredited as well?

McCarthy is just presenting one straw man after another. The FBI, the Federal Judiciary, the Clinton campaign...they're all in it together!

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploa...key_points.pdf

[scottw]

isn't Spence accusing McCarthy of doing exactly what Spence does on a regular basis?...I see what he's doing here

[wdmso]

People pleading guilty left and right and some how it's still a witch hunt . They only seem to care they can't touch Trump with the collusion lable.. they could careless if those who worked for appointed by Trump are pleading guilty to crimes involving Russians..

SENIOR Adviser on President Donald Trump’s election campaign plead guilty... and you guys are still blaming the steel dossier to funny

[spence]

Originally Posted by wdmso

People pleading guilty left and right and some how it's still a witch hunt . They only seem to care they can't touch Trump with the collusion lable..

Interesting read of a pretty credible guy. Collusion or not the damage is being done regardless...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-hayden-217091

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by spence

Interesting read of a pretty credible guy. Collusion or not the damage is being done regardless...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...-hayden-217091

I can hear it now
He is an Independent......
Clearly a deep state operative..........

I think the article puts a different perspective on the situation. He is a critical thinker and shows that this issue is more interesting and convoluted than the politicians or media would have us believe.

[scottw]

some interesting thoughts on Hayden...sorry to interrupt the tongue bath


https://www.cjr.org/first_person/cia...den_expert.php

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

some interesting thoughts on Hayden...sorry to interrupt the tongue bath


https://www.cjr.org/first_person/cia...den_expert.php

A little quote from the article, since selecting portions that are in our favor are en vogue.
"That’s not to say everything Michael Hayden says is inherently wrong. Again, he’s right that President Obama almost certainly did not directly order a “wiretap” of Donald Trump, and he generally has a reasonable positions on Trump’s dangerous Muslim Ban and even encryption."

[Sea Dangles]

She was a total smoke show
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