sh*thole countries

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Haiti might not be the best place to visit, but the people who reported after the tragic quake said they were amazed with the character and strength of the people.

Enjoy your bed tonight.

Jeff, you telling me to enjoy my bed is just plain creepy. You are a sick #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. FYI, my uber driver in Miami was Haitian,great guy but I really couldn't understand him. He was a happy sort nonetheless.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Jeff, you telling me to enjoy my bed is just plain creepy. You are a sick #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. FYI, my uber driver in Miami was Haitian,great guy but I really couldn't understand him. He was a happy sort nonetheless.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Hahahahahaha...#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. Classy there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Hahahahahaha...#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. Classy there.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Foot, meet shoe.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Haiti might not be the best place to visit, but the people who reported after the tragic quake said they were amazed with the character and strength of the people.

Enjoy your bed tonight.

Trump never said or implied that Haitian people were of poor character. He was being critical of the government. The people who run that country deserve to be lined up against a wall. Apunten...fuego!

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Haiti might not be the best place to visit, .

Yeah, that's not intentionally watered-down or anything. Spence, if Obama said Haiti was the nicest place on Earth, would you reflexively sell your house and move there? Is party politics literally all that matters to you? You can't just say "Haiti is a horrible Godforsaken place", just because Trump said the same thing? He can't be correct if he said Haiti s*cks? You can't give him that? You're that close-minded?

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"It didn't bother her base or the mainstream media that she did. With Trump, it's a different matter. When he does it, he is unfit to be President."

That's true. And it's unfair. And it's also the reality, and Trump needs to remember that and not play into their hands in a way that helps them. I love it when he beats the media at their own game of fighting dirty. But I don't like it when he makes it easier for them to csling mud.

"it may not hurt Trump."

But it may hurt some GOP candidates running in purple districts. I want to keep the majority in the house. Trump needs to act as if that's his top priority

If the GOP candidates in purple states would quit acting purple instead of red, thus making it difficult for a Trump-like agenda to get passed, they might have a better chance to get re-elected than if Trump stopped being Trump.

I got caught up in an emotional reaction to what I was told he said. Even if he said it, while I wouldn't advise him to use that language until after the midterms, it's probably not as godawful a thing to say as I initially reacted. Those are sh*thole countries, that cannot be denied. That is not a criticism of the innocent people who live there, it's a criticism of the tyrants who run those places

The manufactured hullabaloo over what he supposedly said was exactly meant to get you and most everyone else caught up in an emotional reaction. It was not intended that you would recover and come to your senses so soon. It was meant that it would be another really shocking part of the continual pile on which will extend at least until the next election.


Detbuch, there is a family that runs the local gas station/convenience store in my town, been there for 15 years. I go in there most Sundays to fill my tank and buy the paper. They were from Liberia, one of the worst countries that ever existed. Came with nothing.

Got a job running the gas station. When they first got there, every Sunday, I'd see the Mom, Dad, son, and daughter. Always working. The kids were not playing video games, they were either working or studying. I got to know these people fairly well. They could not believe there was a place where they could work in an air conditioned building with running water and a flush toilet, selling things to happy customers all day long. They usually work 7 days a week. They could not believe the schools their kids went to with computers, teachers specializing in different classes, band, choir, activities. They could not believe they lived in an apartment that was comfortable and had a TV. They could not believe there was a country that took them out of the hell they were in, and transported them here.

The kids are both out of medical school, doing their residency or internships together.

Th parents cannot believe their good fortune, at what their kids are doing, compared to what might have happened.

The dad also tells me when he watches the news and he hears reporters talking about what a horrible racist place the US is, he cannot believe they are talking about the country that did so much for his family. He also told me something I will never, ever forget. He said it's better for a poor black man to be born in Africa and then to come here, than it is to be born in a place like Chicago. Because people in Chicago for some reason, embrace a culture that doesn't lend itself to a productive life. Whereas he had nothing, so he didn't take anything for granted. He can't believe that there are people who don't take full advantage of the opportunities here. I will never forget what he said, and I think he's exactly correct. But to hear it from his, is more profound and moving, than it is to hear it from a politician.

We can't take in all the world's poor. But I wouldn't want to limit immigration to self-sufficient white people either. Obviously it hurts poor Americans to import millions of unskilled penniless immigrants willing to work for 5 cents a day. We need some balance.

But there's something so right, so glorious, so uniquely American, about what this family's story is. And every town in America has families like that. These people love this country deeply, and have little patience for those who say that only the rich can get ahead, that there is institutional racism, etc.

Does that make any sense? I'm not even sure what I'm saying, I'm babbling a bit. I need to go get some gas and see this family, which always cheers me up. Always.

That's a wonderful story. As I said above, and a few times in other threads, I live in a community of Latinos most of whom emigrated here from Mexico. They have revived the neighborhood which was, as was much of Detroit, decaying in the care of unemployed and welfare dependent blacks, mostly, but likewise several remaining whites. Mexican Town which runs along the full length of Vernor Ave is thriving with small businesses and refurbished homes. So I know that story well--many times over. I also knew and worked with many blacks that emigrated from Jamaica and Nigeria. For the most part, they also did very well as far as education and employment. I also worked with more than a few Asians. They did extremely well, But, I also worked with and know many whites who came from Europe. And they too did and do very well.

So why do the immigrant spectrum of races do better than our abundant population of unproductive blacks and whites? Why do our homegrown "tired poor and huddled masses" so much remain that way? It's obviously, as our immigrants demonstrate, not because of race or poverty or discrimination. Why would your Liberian dad be correct when he says that "it's better for a poor black man to be born in Africa and then to come here, than it is to be born in a place like Chicago. Because people in Chicago for some reason, embrace a culture that doesn't lend itself to a productive life"? Why do those people in Chicago embrace an unproductive culture? I can't believe that the sheer number of our native poor and unproductive are merely at the mental bottom of the Bell Curve. There are too many for that to be the case.

If the Immigrants can do it, so should most of our home grown lackers. You and I, and "Conservatives" have been saying for a long time why they can't. But the intellectual, Progressive, elites, know better. We are the Yahoos. If it were left to us, the nation would be a backward bush country drenched in racism and redneck religion. Our retrograde notions of self reliance, individualism, personal responsibility, liberty, are all just a means of preserving the old status quo of white supremacy.

I got a rather disappointing insight a couple of decades ago into how the welfare state could plant its seeds of destruction. My wife tutored the kids of one of the Mexican families who we were very close with. Emilio and Yolanda came from Mexico and had an extended family here. They were all industrious, mostly self-employed in a beauty parlor and home handyman repair work. They wanted their kids to do better. So they asked my wife, a university English professor, to tutor them, especially in language and writing skills. Their daughter did well. Went to college and became a lawyer. I would rather her degree would have been in something more productive. But what really made my heart sink is that she became an advocate for social welfare justice for Latino families.

Apparently, what she learned in our educational system was that the way her parents did it was not the good mode. The good way was for the government to clear the path and assist along the way. And, more importantly, that the government should provide programs and services, family or otherwise, for those, the growing number of those, who needed "help," even permanent help because they would be held back by discrimination, etc., etc. I'm sure you know the drill.

So the first generation is happy to participate in "The American Dream." You know, that freedom and personal responsibility nonsense, etc. etc. And if they're successful enough, their kids can go to college and learn to be Social Justice Warriors, or social justice fellow travelers who help spread the word and educate the rest of us about what the good way is.

It is nice and heartwarming, even inspirational and affirmative of our belief in what used to be accepted as American values, to see the fleshed out stories similar to your Liberian family. And I hope, even wish, that their children and grandchildren will cherish their views on freedom and opportunity, on the American way, and not become creatures of the state.

But I prefer, rather than replacing with immigrants our failed millions who have had their integrity sucked out of them by the welfare state, that we replace immigration with our own dysfunctionals by forcing them to be functional. "Help" them emigrate from their government induced dystopian existence into the fulfilling existence of productive, responsible, independent humans, by giving them a sink or swim choice, just as the immigrants from foreign nations have had to choose.

If we don't do that, then we can look forward to massively adding to the number of dysfunctional unemployed as many of the children and grandchildren of the marvelous, productive, and grateful immigrants pass through our Progressive educational system, abandon their parents basic and humble ways, and become bitter, anti-American, Progressive SJW's or just add to the unemployment roles.

[Jim in CT]

When I used to give blood, they would ask if I had ever been to Haiti. If I answered yes, the Red Cross didn’t want my blood. If that’s not a sh*thole, is really hate to see what is.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

When I used to give blood, they would ask if I had ever been to Haiti. If I answered yes, the Red Cross didn’t want my blood. If that’s not a sh*thole, is really hate to see what is.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Isn’t it true in Califoria they are fighting for the rights of people with AIDS to donate blood because they are being “discriminated”
Red Cross must be a bunch a racist !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Isn’t it true in Califoria they are fighting for the rights of people with AIDS to donate blood because they are being “discriminated”
Red Cross must be a bunch a racist !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

When it's safer to let patients risk bleeding to death, than it is to give them my blood if I visited Haiti, that means it's a sh*thole.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Isn’t it true in Califoria they are fighting for the rights of people with AIDS to donate blood because they are being “discriminated”
Red Cross must be a bunch a racist !
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Ummmm...no.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/13/57780...storical-prece

Interesting read

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by spence

Ummmm...no.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I guess Howie Carr must be part of fake news.
It was a topic on his radio show a few weeks back.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

Say what you want,the country shares the same soil and water as a vacation destination. One small difference is Haiti remains a crap hole and the other half is civilized enough to understand tourism. Don't blame the people,blame the government.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

This would be a good time to hear again how minorities vote overwhelmingly for Democrats because of welfare and not because of what Republican say and think about them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

When I used to give blood, they would ask if I had ever been to Haiti. If I answered yes, the Red Cross didn’t want my blood. If that’s not a sh*thole, is really hate to see what is.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Funny - the bride and I lived in Germany for three years and we are not allowed to give blood either.

Lots of places have sh1tholes, some totally are sh!tholes, still not proper for the Pres to declare it the way he did. And minor surprise for people jumping on his sheit about it.. Don't let a good opportunity go to waste.

Simply there are good and bad people in all places, good or sheithole.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Funny - the bride and I lived in Germany for three years and we are not allowed to give blood either.

Lots of places have sh1tholes, some totally are sh!tholes, still not proper for the Pres to declare it the way he did. And minor surprise for people jumping on his sheit about it.. Don't let a good opportunity go to waste.

Simply there are good and bad people in all places, good or sheithole.

Still not proper for the Pres to declare it the way he did
that's all ways been the issue . Another example he creates his own issues with the press like this guy

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-eur...he-netherlands

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Lots of places have sh1tholes, some totally are sh!tholes, still not proper for the Pres to declare it the way he did.

I'm not sure how saying this in a closed meeting with a handful of Senators is the same as "declaring" something to the world. I am sure every president we have ever had has said something similar to this, but it never made the news, but, since Trump has a CNN news crew living in his colon, every single time he passes gas, it makes the news.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

This would be a good time to hear again how minorities vote overwhelmingly for Democrats because of welfare and not because of what Republican say and think about them.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

What did George Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney say that was mean about minorities? They said derogatory things about minorities, and that's why they didn't do well with minorities? That's an interesting take on history.

[Jim in CT]

It's also worth noting that multiple senators who were in that room, are denying that Trump said sh*thole.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It's also worth noting that multiple senators who were in that room, are denying that Trump said sh*thole.

Because they are soo honest. Believe me...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Because they are soo honest. Believe me...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Are they any less honest than the ones saying he said it?

It's weird it's not on tape or on official notes taken during the meeting.

Even if they produced video of it now of him not saying it, the media has already gotten what they wanted out of it.

I wonder if JFK ever referred to Cuba as a sh!thole.... Perhaps he would have phrased it more like "Those dirt eating Commie sons a beeches"

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Because they are soo honest. Believe me...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Why are the ones who claimed he said it, more credible? Tom cotton is a republican, yes, but he’s not an attack dog, he’s not a jerk, he’s not known as a party hack like Harry Reid would be considered. Trump may well have said it, it’s not beyond him. But we don’t know. What we do know is that many on the left are deranged with a fixation to demonize him. This may be an example of they. Or maybe he said it and his defenders are lying. We don’t know.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It's also worth noting that multiple senators who were in that room, are denying that Trump said sh*thole.

Name one.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Name one.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Tom cotton. Cum Laude graduate of Harvard law school and an army combat veteran. Not yet known to be a party hack.

Now, I answered your question, yes? Would you extend me the same courtesy? Please tell me why my comments were absurd, when I claimed that a huge increase in the supply of unskilled labor, especially illegals who will work for less than minimum wage, keeps wages suppressed for Americans who are low skilled and competing for the same jobs.

If you spent less time reading Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book, and a bit more time reading Economics 101, you’d know that the basic principles of supply and demand, suggest I am correct.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

No it’s not proper.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Sea Dangles]

A rose by any other name is still a rose
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Cotton first said he didn't recall. Hell even Lindsey Graham verified the remarks.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Cotton first said he didn't recall. Hell even Lindsey Graham verified the remarks.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Senator Perdue also says Trump didn't use the word sh*thole.

Are you going to comment at all, about why my beliefs about immigration keeping low wage earners down, is one of the more absurd things ever posted here? You really deny that if you increase the supply of something (ESPECIALLY if the new supply comes at a lower cost), then it's pretty hard to raise the price of that something? You work in Finance, and you deny that?

[Got Stripers]

Trump told a reporter yesterday he is the least racist person they would ever possibly interview, is anyone buying that one?

The GOP for whatever reason have become lapdogs cowering at the feet of Trump, so it doesn't surprise me at all those in attendance either denied hearing it or said they didn't recall hearing it. I suspect they knew exactly what the fallout would be and I'm sure wanted to try to lesson the impact, especially with a budget deadline quickly approaching. I don't doubt he said it, that's exactly who Trump is, he is vulgar, abrasive, insensitive and incapable of thinking twice about anything he says.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Still not proper for the Pres to declare it the way he did
that's all ways been the issue . Another example he creates his own issues with the press like this guy

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-eur...he-netherlands

Ref A - Nobody is talking about the Wold Book or Bannon. Trump has a little bit of a Jedi Mind Trick.

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I'm not sure how saying this in a closed meeting with a handful of Senators is the same as "declaring" something to the world. I am sure every president we have ever had has said something similar to this, but it never made the news, but, since Trump has a CNN news crew living in his colon, every single time he passes gas, it makes the news.

Here is the rub. What he says behind closed doors shouldn't be fodder for everything but you have to assume it will be. Maybe he'll have more flexibility after the election... Trump's problem ('cept as when redirecting the lemmings - see Ref A above) is he scores own goals on himself too much increasing the fire he's under, which added to the normal unfair coverage a Rep pres will get from a biased D Media, which fuels the apoplectic left and social media. Volume goes to eleventy.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, comrade, tell me what's wrong with this logic.

There are Americans with very low skills.

Most of them make low wages.

We would like them to be able to command higher wages.

When we bring in millions of unskilled immigrants, that's more competition, for the same number of low-skill jobs. When you increase supply of something without a proportional increase in demand for that something, the price for that something (in this case, the wages of low-skill workers) will decrease.

Furthermore, the illegals among the unskilled laborers, are willing to work for less than minimum wage. This drives down the market value of unskilled labor. Which , obviously, makes it harder for unskilled workers to command a higher wage in the free market. If there were fewer unskilled workers, those that remain, could demand a higher wage. Because of decreased supply.

Supply and demand, Spence...supply and demand. You never read page one of a college economics or finance text?



Instead of just saying "that's absurd", enlighten me. Educate me. Tell me where my logic is flawed.

Jim - why are so few people willing to recognize this?