sh*thole countries

[Jim in CT]

It's also worth noting that multiple senators who were in that room, are denying that Trump said sh*thole.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It's also worth noting that multiple senators who were in that room, are denying that Trump said sh*thole.

Because they are soo honest. Believe me...
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[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Because they are soo honest. Believe me...
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Are they any less honest than the ones saying he said it?

It's weird it's not on tape or on official notes taken during the meeting.

Even if they produced video of it now of him not saying it, the media has already gotten what they wanted out of it.

I wonder if JFK ever referred to Cuba as a sh!thole.... Perhaps he would have phrased it more like "Those dirt eating Commie sons a beeches"

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It's also worth noting that multiple senators who were in that room, are denying that Trump said sh*thole.

Name one.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Because they are soo honest. Believe me...
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Why are the ones who claimed he said it, more credible? Tom cotton is a republican, yes, but he’s not an attack dog, he’s not a jerk, he’s not known as a party hack like Harry Reid would be considered. Trump may well have said it, it’s not beyond him. But we don’t know. What we do know is that many on the left are deranged with a fixation to demonize him. This may be an example of they. Or maybe he said it and his defenders are lying. We don’t know.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Name one.
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Tom cotton. Cum Laude graduate of Harvard law school and an army combat veteran. Not yet known to be a party hack.

Now, I answered your question, yes? Would you extend me the same courtesy? Please tell me why my comments were absurd, when I claimed that a huge increase in the supply of unskilled labor, especially illegals who will work for less than minimum wage, keeps wages suppressed for Americans who are low skilled and competing for the same jobs.

If you spent less time reading Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book, and a bit more time reading Economics 101, you’d know that the basic principles of supply and demand, suggest I am correct.
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[spence]

Cotton first said he didn't recall. Hell even Lindsey Graham verified the remarks.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Cotton first said he didn't recall. Hell even Lindsey Graham verified the remarks.
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Senator Perdue also says Trump didn't use the word sh*thole.

Are you going to comment at all, about why my beliefs about immigration keeping low wage earners down, is one of the more absurd things ever posted here? You really deny that if you increase the supply of something (ESPECIALLY if the new supply comes at a lower cost), then it's pretty hard to raise the price of that something? You work in Finance, and you deny that?

[Got Stripers]

Trump told a reporter yesterday he is the least racist person they would ever possibly interview, is anyone buying that one?

The GOP for whatever reason have become lapdogs cowering at the feet of Trump, so it doesn't surprise me at all those in attendance either denied hearing it or said they didn't recall hearing it. I suspect they knew exactly what the fallout would be and I'm sure wanted to try to lesson the impact, especially with a budget deadline quickly approaching. I don't doubt he said it, that's exactly who Trump is, he is vulgar, abrasive, insensitive and incapable of thinking twice about anything he says.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, comrade, tell me what's wrong with this logic.

There are Americans with very low skills.

Most of them make low wages.

We would like them to be able to command higher wages.

When we bring in millions of unskilled immigrants, that's more competition, for the same number of low-skill jobs. When you increase supply of something without a proportional increase in demand for that something, the price for that something (in this case, the wages of low-skill workers) will decrease.

Furthermore, the illegals among the unskilled laborers, are willing to work for less than minimum wage. This drives down the market value of unskilled labor. Which , obviously, makes it harder for unskilled workers to command a higher wage in the free market. If there were fewer unskilled workers, those that remain, could demand a higher wage. Because of decreased supply.

Supply and demand, Spence...supply and demand. You never read page one of a college economics or finance text?



Instead of just saying "that's absurd", enlighten me. Educate me. Tell me where my logic is flawed.

Past 8 years there have been on avg 11.3 million illigal immagrants. (NOT LEGAL) in the USA

45mil americans or 14% of all Americans live below the poverty line

These facts clearly go against your statement

And seems you need to explain what unskilled jobs they are depressing. that poor Americans are upset that they cant obtain

Picking Strawberry's, avacados farm hands landscaping

So 11.5 million poor immigrant are making a living off depressed wages that they are depressing yet paying bills and spending money ..and at the same time taking jobs from 45 million poor Americans who you suggest want those jobs ..
In a country of 323 million .. your math isn't adding up

[PaulS]

Jim, anybody with any sense of honesty will admit that Republicans all believe the minorities are lazy and enjoy sitting around taking welfare. Welfare is like it dog whistle to Republicans. You yourself have claimed numerous times that welfare is all a grand Democratic scheme to keep minorities down by making them dependent on it and that us why they vote for Democrats.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by spence

Cotton first said he didn't recall. Hell even Lindsey Graham verified the remarks.
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Cotton and Purdue both claimed they couldn't recall it at first.
Then they magically remembered what Trump said. Now in my best Jim voice this goes to show how sleazy and disgusting the conservatives are, their honesty means nothing.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Still not proper for the Pres to declare it the way he did
that's all ways been the issue . Another example he creates his own issues with the press like this guy

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-eur...he-netherlands

Ref A - Nobody is talking about the Wold Book or Bannon. Trump has a little bit of a Jedi Mind Trick.

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

I'm not sure how saying this in a closed meeting with a handful of Senators is the same as "declaring" something to the world. I am sure every president we have ever had has said something similar to this, but it never made the news, but, since Trump has a CNN news crew living in his colon, every single time he passes gas, it makes the news.

Here is the rub. What he says behind closed doors shouldn't be fodder for everything but you have to assume it will be. Maybe he'll have more flexibility after the election... Trump's problem ('cept as when redirecting the lemmings - see Ref A above) is he scores own goals on himself too much increasing the fire he's under, which added to the normal unfair coverage a Rep pres will get from a biased D Media, which fuels the apoplectic left and social media. Volume goes to eleventy.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

OK, comrade, tell me what's wrong with this logic.

There are Americans with very low skills.

Most of them make low wages.

We would like them to be able to command higher wages.

When we bring in millions of unskilled immigrants, that's more competition, for the same number of low-skill jobs. When you increase supply of something without a proportional increase in demand for that something, the price for that something (in this case, the wages of low-skill workers) will decrease.

Furthermore, the illegals among the unskilled laborers, are willing to work for less than minimum wage. This drives down the market value of unskilled labor. Which , obviously, makes it harder for unskilled workers to command a higher wage in the free market. If there were fewer unskilled workers, those that remain, could demand a higher wage. Because of decreased supply.

Supply and demand, Spence...supply and demand. You never read page one of a college economics or finance text?



Instead of just saying "that's absurd", enlighten me. Educate me. Tell me where my logic is flawed.

Jim - why are so few people willing to recognize this?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Jim - why are so few people willing to recognize this?

Not sure what you mean? Are you giving me a subtle hint that if so many people disagree, I must be wrong? Or are you sincerely wondering why so many people disagree?

If it's the former, I hope you know I have zero issue with you disagreeing with me. None whatsoever. But I think the most basic principles of supply and demand suggest I am correct.

If it's the latter, I think people either (1) are liberal ideologues and cannot admit anything that doesn't support liberalism, even if it's obvious truth. Spence is in this category. Or (2) people can't stomach saying it out loud, because it is a harsh reality, which means that we must put strict limits on the number of poor people we let come here. For many people, it's not an easy thing to say 'no' to someone that might desperately want to come here, it might be their only shot at having a comfortable life? It's not easy to slam the door in people's faces. But life ain't always easy. I don't like that more than anybody, I want everybody to be rich and comfortable.

Rand Paul hates Donald Trump. But he was on with Chuck Todd this weekend, explaining how much money Trump gave (before he entered politics) to support humanitarian missions to Haiti, medical mercy missions that Rand Paul, a doctor, was aware of. Trump was a major, major donor to these missions. If all he cared about was his net worth, and if he doesn't like Haitians, why would he do this? Answer...he wouldn't.

I do not think Trump is a super nice guy. I wouldn't want him dating my Mom. He says things that are hard to believe a grown man could say, probably because he's not a grown man in many ways, he's a big spoiled bratty baby in many ways. But he's not Hitler or Darth Vader or Mr Burns from 'The Simpsons' either. There are many stories of his generosity out there (as there should be with any billionaire). All of that gets lost because (1) he has a penchant for saying the most crass things you can imagine, which naturally grab our attention, and (2) 99% of the media is on a mission to demonize him.

He will never, ever get a fair shake in the media. And by 'fair', I don't mean zero negative coverage. I mean negative coverage when he deserves it (not a rare thing), and positive coverage when he deserves it (also not a rare thing, especially if you think a healthy economy is good for Americans). He will never, ever get that, the left and the media are not capable of it. They literally are not capable of it. They could not be fair to Bush, or McCain, or Romney. And their hatred of those men was nothing compared to Trump, because those men were courteous to the media. Trump throws cheap shots right back at them, and is calling them out for exactly what they are. It never occurred to them that they might be held accountable for their yellow journalism, and they don't like it one bit.

[PaulS]

I saw a poll that says 32% of Americans approve of Trumps handling of race relationships. Isn't that about his favorability rating? I would guess it's all Republicans right?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Jim - why are so few people willing to recognize this?

Maybe there's another reason. If liberals know this to be true deep down, there's a political advantage to denying it. If they let the Republicans say it, the Democrats can then say "did you hear what he said! He doesn't care about poor people in other countries, he doesn't want them here, so he's probably racist too. I am morally superior, so vote for me!". It works.

Here in CT, we have MASSIVE problems with unfunded pensions. The Democrats won't touch it. So when Republican says "this is not a tenable situation", the Democrats can pounce on him and say "aha! Did you hear that! He wants to steal your pensions, and give the money to his buddies who manage hedge funds! Vote for me, because I think they deserve the pensions they were promised!!" Yet they never, ever say how they will fund them.

I think there's a lot of that from the left. It's dishonest and destructive, almost to the point of calling it diabolical.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I saw a poll that says 32% of Americans approve of Trumps handling of race relationships. Isn't that about his favorability rating? I would guess it's all Republicans right?
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You're probably right. That's why the liberals conspire with the media to demonize everyone who disagrees with them about anything. Because it works.

Black unemployment has never been as low as it is now. If Obama were still POTUS, they'd give him another Nobel Peace Prize for that. With Trump, the media won't discuss it. So they focus on something vulgar he might have said about Haiti, wherein he implied that it's a horribly run country. Imagine thinking that?

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You're probably right. That's why the liberals conspire with the media to demonize everyone who disagrees with them about anything. Because it works?

Damn that media for making conservatives looks racist when they point out thier racist comments.

And it's not that he "might" of said what he said, it is that he actually said it . You had two senators who confirmed it and two Republican Senators who now have lied about what he said. So let's not say he might have said it when the facts all point to him actually saying it. And frankly I don't think he cares because if he did care he would be tweeting more about it in denying it. He's not doing that because he's blowing his little dog whistle.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Jim, anybody with any sense of honesty will admit that Republicans all believe the minorities are lazy and enjoy sitting around taking welfare. Welfare is like it dog whistle to Republicans. You yourself have claimed numerous times that welfare is all a grand Democratic scheme to keep minorities down by making them dependent on it and that us why they vote for Democrats.
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"anybody with any sense of honesty will admit that Republicans all believe the minorities are lazy and enjoy sitting around taking welfare"

Bullsh*t. That's what the media wants you to believe about how the GOP thinks about minorities. What the GOP actually believes, is this - that some people truly cannot fend for themselves, and we need to help those people (evidenced by the fact that conservatives give slightly more to charity than liberals, we have discussed this). But it's better to help people to help themselves, than it is to create more people who cannot fend for themselves. Welfare can have a negative effect if it creates more people who can never go out and take care of themselves.

The late great liberal democrat senator from NY, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, said 50 years ago that liberal welfare was going to be an absolute Holocaust for blacks. He was excoriated for saying that. And he was 100% correct.

"You yourself have claimed numerous times that welfare is all a grand Democratic scheme to keep minorities down by making them dependent on it and that us why they vote for Democrats."

I believe that to my core, at least as regards to some liberals at the national level who make policy. I also believe that's why many liberal politicians want open borders and more immigration - it leads to more future democrat voters. That's the desired outcome.

How can any sane person be against secure borders? They can't. But they put their sanity aside, for political capital.

Paul, when I see what 50 years of liberalism has done for minorities in Hartford and Bridgeport, I say "these people deserve better". When liberals see what their policies have done there, they say "these people deserve more of the same". Because they aren't proposing anything different.

You tell me, Paul, which conclusion implies greater concern for poor minorities? Mine or theirs? Which one?

Liberalism has been a complete disaster for struggling blacks. Economically, culturally, in terms of family stability...it's been a catastrophe.

And when I say they deserve better than what liberals delivered, you claim that means I don't like them? Suffice to say, I see zero logic there. Just more blind political demonization in spite of the facts and common sense.

Finally, here's the last way I will reject your theory that the GOP doesn't care about poor minorities. The tax reform bill is going to help many minorities increase their net take home pay. You tell me, Paul...if Democrats care so much about minorities, what did they do under Obama, that was better for minorities, than this?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Damn that media for making conservatives looks racist when they point out thier racist comments.

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I have no problem with calling out true racists. My issue is, liberals don't stop there. Obama said McCain was a racist. Hilary said half the American people are racist. Everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders is somehow a racist.

I have zero issue with accurate criticism. Stop pretending otherwise. I started this thread, and I was attacking Trump. I don't believe it's racist to say that Haiti is a sh*thole (especially when the person who said it has given large amounts of money to help Haiti),. I also don't think it's necessarily racist to say we need more immigrants who are (1) self sufficient, and (2) more likely to be able to assimilate into our culture. There's logic there. And it will always be painted as racist by your side. Always.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Past 8 years there have been on avg 11.3 million illigal immagrants. (NOT LEGAL) in the USA

45mil americans or 14% of all Americans live below the poverty line

These facts clearly go against your statement

Those 45 million americans are competing with many immigrants (legal and illegal) for the finite number of low skill jobs out there.

Increased competition, leads to lower price. I can't say it any simpler than that.

Wages at the bottom are not keeping up with inflation. So the math is indeed backing me up. So is common sense.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Damn that media for making conservatives looks racist when they point out thier racist comments.

And it's not that he "might" of said what he said, it is that he actually said it . You had two senators who confirmed it and two Republican Senators who now have lied about what he said. So let's not say he might have said it when the facts all point to him actually saying it. And frankly I don't think he cares because if he did care he would be tweeting more about it in denying it. He's not doing that because he's blowing his little dog whistle.
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Show me proof that he said it, and I will never respect Tom Cotton again. Fair enough?

[PaulS]

You say cotton is honest but he already lied. First he said he didn't hear it now he's saying he didn't say it. So which time was he more credible and which time did he lie? Off for a haircut and the gym now
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I saw a poll that says 32% of Americans approve of Trumps handling of race relationships. Isn't that about his favorability rating? I would guess it's all Republicans right?
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And if the media portrayed him honestly, the number would be higher. How many people know that he helped fund medical missions to Haiti? How many people know that black unemployment is at record lows, and Trump is happy about that?

I concede he's not a good man. But he's not remotely what CNN wants him to be. He trounced them at their own game (by virtue of winning when they all said he was going to get clobbered, hell they convinced me) and they hate him for it. He pulled back the curtain and for a moment, showed us how dishonest and contemptible they are.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

You say cotton is honest but he already lied. First he said he didn't hear it now he's saying he didn't say it. So which time was he more credible and which time did he lie? Off for a haircut and the gym now
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I didn't say he was honest. I said there's no evidence that he is dishonest. He wa sin the room, and didn't hear the remarks attributed to Trump. You show me proof that he's wrong, and I'll concede your point. I don't deny the obvious Paul.

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I didn't say he was honest. I said there's no evidence that he is dishonest. He wa sin the room, and didn't hear the remarks attributed to Trump. You show me proof that he's wrong, and I'll concede your point. I don't deny the obvious Paul.

All you need to do is look at trumps past behavior and ask yourself..”would he really say that?” Of course he would say that.

Grab em by the pussy. You can do anything.
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[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Not sure what you mean? Are you giving me a subtle hint that if so many people disagree, I must be wrong? Or are you sincerely wondering why so many people disagree?

Jim - I agree with you. Like almost any supply / demand issue if you flood a particular "market" or "segment" you create a glut in that segment and a competition for those lower tier jobs. If you keep "importing" people of poverty and/or lower skills, no matter how many people you have helped out of poverty you have replaced that person with the same. It is generally unfair to people that were in that position before. Now if you are not pulling as many out of poverty as you (Guv) continue to bring in you have an increase in poverty. Your percentages may even be same but due to pop growth have more people in poverty.

Now I am OK with bringing in more of the impoverished (legally) after a reduction in the people coming illegally but assimilate, have sponsors, chase education, and ATTAIN CITIZENSHIP!!!!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Black unemployment has never been as low as it is now. If Obama were still POTUS, they'd give him another Nobel Peace Prize for that. With Trump, the media won't discuss it. So they focus on something vulgar he might have said about Haiti, wherein he implied that it's a horribly run country. Imagine thinking that?

Black unemployment is low because unemployment in general is low.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Rand Paul hates Donald Trump. But he was on with Chuck Todd this weekend, explaining how much money Trump gave (before he entered politics) to support humanitarian missions to Haiti, medical mercy missions that Rand Paul, a doctor, was aware of. Trump was a major, major donor to these missions. If all he cared about was his net worth, and if he doesn't like Haitians, why would he do this? Answer...he wouldn't.

All I heard Rand Paul say was that Trump donated something, not that he was a major, major donor.

Sounds like a good tax deduction for the Donald. He needs a strong Haiti, it's where he gets most of his workers for Mar-A-Lago.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

WDMSO, when you increase the supply of something, do you know what happens to the value of that something? It decreases. It is beyond dispute, that immigration has limited the ability of poor Americans to earn more.

That is a fact. And it's worth considering, when detailing immigration policy. We can't act like there's no downside.

This has been studied a lot and found that it's really not true. Many immigrants aren't low skilled and fill gaps in the workplace. A lot of low-skilled labor based jobs Americans simply don't want. Farmers that rely on immigrant workers continually face labor shortages.

I'm sure you can find some specific anecdotes where it's the case but in a general sense doesn't seem to pan out.