Geeez ,, no talk of this , Big breaking story today ..

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, please get your facts straight, the Bodies were RETURNED to the US 3 days after the attack, the funerals were many days later.

The parents were told with Hillary standing there as they took the bodies from the plane that the tape was the reason for the attack.

The article I read said funeral. I don't see a material difference though, at that point the information was still the same.

Oh, and you forgot the question of Admiral Lowell at the hearing asked, who would have to order military action the night of the attack. He said the Commander in Chief.
That order never came and the military cannot take action on it's own.

You can't order military action if there's no military to act. Our people were out of Libya before the rapid response teams could have arrived so there's no reason to attack.

Given that, what's the point of the question other than create yet another misleading headline?

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

You can't order military action if there's no military to act. Our people were out of Libya before the rapid response teams could have arrived so there's no reason to attack.


-spence

from your earlier link...

"Over the roughly 12 hours between the start of the attacks and the time the last Americans were evacuated from Benghazi"

12 hours? You're saying that there were zero American military assets that were within 12 hours of Benghazi? And you say I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about? Twelve hours?

If it's true that not one American military asset was within 12 hours of Libya (and no one believes that's true), that's another scandal, given all the threats that were reported in Libya.

Spence, according to you, not only was Stevens denied the extra security he asked for, but we didn't have any military support in the same hemisphere? On the anniversary of 09/11, in Libya, after getting reports of increased threats, Obama/Clinton didn't have a single soldier within 12 hours. That's what you are seriously saying? And you think that's acceptable?

I heard there was a special ops team that was 4 hours out (Croatia, maybe?).

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

from your earlier link...

"Over the roughly 12 hours between the start of the attacks and the time the last Americans were evacuated from Benghazi"

12 hours? You're saying that there were zero American military assets that were within 12 hours of Benghazi? And you say I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about? Twelve hours?

If it's true that not one American military asset was within 12 hours of Libya (and no one believes that's true), that's another scandal, given all the threats that were reported in Libya.

Once the Americans arrived at Tripoli the threat was far less and I'd assume not requiring special forces. If I remember right they left on an Air Force transport. This wasn't like the fall of Siagon...

Spence, according to you, not only was Stevens denied the extra security he asked for, but we didn't have any military support in the same hemisphere? On the anniversary of 09/11, in Libya, after getting reports of increased threats, Obama/Clinton didn't have a single soldier within 12 hours. That's what you are seriously saying? And you think that's acceptable?

No that's not what I'm saying.

I heard there was a special ops team that was 4 hours out (Croatia, maybe?).

Ok, so let's get this straight:

The Mullen investigation didn't know about your Croatian team.

The House investigation didn't know about your Croatian team.

The Military leadership who testified under oath didn't know about your Croatian team.

Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif, Chairman of the House Committee on Armed Services didn't know about your Croatian team.

These people are all clearly incompetent because you Jim, heard something.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Once the Americans arrived at Tripoli the threat was far less and I'd assume not requiring special forces. If I remember right they left on an Air Force transport. This wasn't like the fall of Siagon...


No that's not what I'm saying.


Ok, so let's get this straight:

The Mullen investigation didn't know about your Croatian team.

The House investigation didn't know about your Croatian team.

The Military leadership who testified under oath didn't know about your Croatian team.

Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif, Chairman of the House Committee on Armed Services didn't know about your Croatian team.

These people are all clearly incompetent because you Jim, heard something.

-spence

"the threat was far less and I'd assume not requiring special forces."

The point is, Obama could not have known what the timeframe was going to be, at the time he decided not to order the quick reaction forces to get there as soon as possible (unless he did give that order, but I don't think he did).

Spence, you seem to be justifying the actions of the administration, because it turns out that it's unlikely that forces could have helped. That's not the least bit relevant, because Obama didn't know how long the attack would last, right?

"The Mullen investigation didn't know about your Croatian team.

The House investigation didn't know about your Croatian team.

The Military leadership who testified under oath didn't know about your Croatian team.

Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif, Chairman of the House Committee on Armed Services didn't know about your Croatian team.

These people are all clearly incompetent because you Jim, heard something."

Only from Martin Dempsey, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs...if this piece is true, which maybe it's not. But it's wy we need a meaningful hearing, with everyone there and willing to answer questions. Look, if Obama told special forces to get there ASAP, and the closest unit was on the way but stopped when they learned that it was over, no one would have a problem with that. But if forces were not given the order to go, then regardless of whether or not it turns out they could have got there in time, someone needs to explain why they weren't ordered to go.

Why is that a controversial position to take? Seems to me, that one is only unwilling to ask the question, if one knows that the answer would damage someone they support.

I seem to recall Obama claiming he'd have the most open and transparent administration ever. Let's end this with one hearing that leaves no questions unanswered.

Sorry that Fox is the source of some of this. Could be that Sean Hannity is on a witch hunt. Or it could be that they are the only ones willing to ask anything resembling a tough question to our Dear Leader. An open and honest hearing would answer that once and for all. McCain I not a right wing attack dog, neither is Lindsay Graham. They both claim there are a lot of unanswered questions. McCain is not Ted Cruz or Darrell Issa.



http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/admission...from-benghazi/

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

You can't order military action if there's no military to act.



-spence

Yes, and the President can't order it if he's not around. Ideally he would go to the Situation Room, but if not ,in this day and age he could be reached anywhere?

All this talk about not ordering military action because there wasn't enough time is bogus as you would need a crystal ball to know how long the fight would last.

The order was never given to try and save 4 American heroes.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Yes, and the President can't order it if he's not around. Ideally he would go to the Situation Room, but if not ,in this day and age he could be reached anywhere?

All this talk about not ordering military action because there wasn't enough time is bogus as you would need a crystal ball to know how long the fight would last.

The order was never given to try and save 4 American heroes.

Yea, he was probably out golfing.

This is just total nonsense. It was reported in 2012 that Panetta and top military advisers were with Obama an hour after the attack planning responses.

This idea that our people died because orders weren't given has not only been repeatedly dis-proven -- as have most of the conspiracy theories -- it's offensive.

-spence

I

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, he was probably out golfing.

This is just total nonsense. It was reported in 2012 that Panetta and top military advisers were with Obama an hour after the attack planning responses.

This idea that our people died because orders weren't given has not only been repeatedly dis-proven -- as have most of the conspiracy theories -- it's offensive.

-spence

I

Spence, I don't know ass much here as I should. Your timeline you posted made no comment, that I saw, about how fast the closest special operations troops got in the air headed to Benghazi. Do you know when that happened? Were special forces in the air within 30 minutes of when the attack started? If so, that answers a key question. If not, Obama deserves to be impeached. I respond with common sense to empirical evidence. The link I posted suggest that there was a special forces team tat was a lot closer than 12 hours away. What orders were given to that team, and when?

You cannot tell me that's an unfair question. I honestly don't know if it has been answered. Do you?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, I don't know ass much here as I should. Your timeline you posted made no comment, that I saw, about how fast the closest special operations troops got in the air headed to Benghazi. Do you know when that happened? Were special forces in the air within 30 minutes of when the attack started? If so, that answers a key question. If not, Obama deserves to be impeached. I respond with common sense to empirical evidence. The link I posted suggest that there was a special forces team tat was a lot closer than 12 hours away. What orders were given to that team, and when?

You cannot tell me that's an unfair question. I honestly don't know if it has been answered. Do you?

First off WND is a tabloid and Aaron Klien an Obama hater. Your article is from 2013 when the DoD released the timeline of events in 2012. It's intentionally manipulative and not supported by facts.

The quotes in the piece don't substantiate the claim made in the headline.

Jim, if you'd take the time to read any of the already published information...you'd know that the special forces training in Croatia were given orders to prepare to deploy to Libya just after midnight, they didn't reach the staging base in Italy until 8pm the next day. An hour later the FAST team from Spain arrived in Tripoli.

i.e. There wasn't a special forces team in Croatia that could have been there in 4 hours.

Perhaps people have watched too much Iron Man and Captain America to think we can just jet people instantly across continents.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

First off WND is a tabloid and Aaron Klien an Obama hater. Your article is from 2013 when the DoD released the timeline of events in 2012. It's intentionally manipulative and not supported by facts.

The quotes in the piece don't substantiate the claim made in the headline.

Jim, if you'd take the time to read any of the already published information...you'd know that the special forces training in Croatia were given orders to prepare to deploy to Libya just after midnight, they didn't reach the staging base in Italy until 8pm the next day. An hour later the FAST team from Spain arrived in Tripoli.

i.e. There wasn't a special forces team in Croatia that could have been there in 4 hours.

Perhaps people have watched too much Iron Man and Captain America to think we can just jet people instantly across continents.

-spence

"i.e. There wasn't a special forces team in Croatia that could have been there in 4 hours."

So here is my question. How long after the attack began, was the nearest special forces team (wherever that was) in the air, on their way to Benghazi? Has that question been answered? I didn't see any mention of that in the timeline you posted?

"Perhaps people have watched too much Iron Man and Captain America to think we can just jet people instantly across continents"

I don't fit in that category, I do know a few things here, though I'm no expert on special forces.

It's not possible that there weren't any troops we could have gotten there within the 12 hours that lapsed between the start of the attack and when the last American left. It is a 100% certainty that there was a special forces team closer than 12 hours out. I don't know where they were, but someone was within 12 hours.

It does not tale very long to get a small team in the air within 30 minutes. That's why they are called quick reaction forces.

If some people are overly influenced by Captain America, others are too enthralled with Obama to the point that they are not capable of doubting anything he say or does.

[scottw]

I don't know why you guys keep asking him to answer questions..it's like asking Jay Carney to answer a question...the answer is always disturbing and incompletely slanted with a tinge of "do some homework idiot" which would apparently involve reciting administration talking points over and over and over....

Goldberg had a great take on Bengazi and Carney recently....

"BENGHAZI MADE SIMPLE

There is an enormous amount of theorizing about what the “real story” behind Benghazi really is. To me it’s always been obvious. The White House was caught off guard — for reasons stemming both from ideology and incompetence — on September 11, 2012. As they have after virtually every other (jihadist) terrorist attack on Americans, they acted as if it had absolutely nothing to do with them. As with the Times Square bomber, the Fort Hood shooter, and other Islamist assaults, there’s always some other reason for the bloodshed, some attempt to claim, at least for a while, that this was an “isolated incident” with no broader implications for the War on Terror or Obama’s foreign policy. Admittedly, even this White House understood that spinning the Benghazi attack as an isolated incident wasn’t going to work (such intense spinning could risk irreparable scrotal torsion). So they went with the story about the video.

Of course, the White House and its defenders insist that they really believed the video was to blame. This strikes me as a lie, for the most part, if not initially than certainly over time. But even if that’s true, that’s no exoneration. As I said, there was a mix of incompetence and ideology at work. As an ideological matter, that this White House could convince itself for hours — never mind weeks — that this terror attack was all about the video is incredibly damning, if true. And, as I argue in my column today, the fact that the once-proud champions of civil liberties under George W. Bush were perfectly happy to throw the First Amendment under the bus is even more damning.

Given that the Benghazi attack came during the thick of the presidential election, it’s no surprise that the White House’s political and ideological instincts overpowered everything else. It’s no surprise, either, that the press’s instincts pointed in the same direction. It’s really non-surprises for as far as the eye can see.

Obviously there are still some unknowns worth knowing, and they might be surprising — like the exact details of how and why the response was so non-responsive. Just because the White House and State Department were unprepared shouldn’t mean that the professional military was too. The exact nexus between the political screw-up and the military’s failure to “run to the sound of gunfire” hasn’t been established."

CARNEY

"On Wednesday, Jay Carney explained — as if he was talking to a room full of children — that the Benghazi e-mail the White House refused to release until the White House was forced to release its Benghazi e-mails wasn’t in fact about Benghazi, even though the e-mail talks about Benghazi. This is Monty Pythonesque of “Dead Parrot” proportions. That’s not a Benghazi e-mail, it’s just an e-mail about Benghazi, in a folder marked “Benghazi” e-mails, idiot.

As I said on Fox yesterday, Jay Carney is a very strange creature for Washington. He’s an extremely confident liar — we’ve got a lot of those! — but he’s not very convincing. Usually, confidence = convincing. As George Costanza (and in his own way Bill Clinton) liked to say, it’s not a lie if you believe it when you tell it. But with Carney, he lies in a way that makes it seem not so much like he believes it but that you’re an idiot for not believing it. There’s a kind of the-joke’s-on-you feel to the way he talks that reminds me of that (X-rated and not safe for work) Onion article, “Why Do These Homosexuals Keep [Fellating Me]?”

Carney actually seems shocked and, well, disappointed to the point of contemptuousness, when reporters won’t believe him. It’s like no one told him he doesn’t have Jedi mind tricks at his disposal.

Carney: These are not the droids you’re looking for, idiots.

Ed Henry, Fox News: But Jay, these look exactly like the droids we’ve been looking for. In fact, the serial numbers match.

Carney: Ed, I understand your network is deeply invested in finding a story here. But the simple fact is that these are in no way the droids you’re looking for. Move along.

Henry: One last follow-up, Jay. The golden droid on the right just said, “Excuse me sirs, but we are in fact exactly the droids you’ve been looking for. Thank goodness you found us.”

Carney: No, no they didn’t. And besides — I used to be a journalist as you know — and it’s common knowledge among real journalists [Carney winks to the non-Fox reporters in the room] that one should never believe what droids tell them.

Jonathan Karl, ABC: Jay, related question: Here is a photo of you from last month holding up a picture of these exact droids with the quote in the caption reading, ‘Carney vows the White House will not rest until these droids are found.’ Also, ABC News has obtained footage of you from this morning, hugging the two droids right there, with you saying ‘Thank Obama we found you!’ Can you explain that?

[Carney rolls his eyes and then desperately tries to telekinetically choke everyone in the room.]

Henry: Uh, Jay are you okay? Why are you squinting? What’s up with that hand gesture . . ."

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So here is my question. How long after the attack began, was the nearest special forces team (wherever that was) in the air, on their way to Benghazi? Has that question been answered? I didn't see any mention of that in the timeline you posted?

The article I linked indicates verbal orders were given immediately to move both the FAST teams in Spain and the special ops in Croatia…formal orders followed.

The problem here is that in an attempt to smear Obama all sorts of conspiracy stories were embraced by the blogs and even some reputable news outlets…They did nothing, they were told to stand down etc… and all of this has been proven false even by the House investigation.

I don't fit in that category, I do know a few things here, though I'm no expert on special forces.

It's not possible that there weren't any troops we could have gotten there within the 12 hours that lapsed between the start of the attack and when the last American left. It is a 100% certainty that there was a special forces team closer than 12 hours out. I don't know where they were, but someone was within 12 hours.

It does not tale very long to get a small team in the air within 30 minutes. That's why they are called quick reaction forces.

You're making it sound like they're firemen waiting for the bell to ring and slide down the pole into their boots.

Even the FAST teams in Spain would have to equip for the mission, same goes for the ops in Croatia training. They'd have to stage themselves and you'd probably need a plan. Basing this on flight time along isn't realistic, you know this.

Remember as well that the closest security team in Tripoli did deploy and got there at 1:30am.

If some people are overly influenced by Captain America, others are too enthralled with Obama to the point that they are not capable of doubting anything he say or does.

There's a body of research out there that can't be denied. Multiple investigations seem to be reaching the same conclusions.

-spence

[justplugit]

[QUOTE=spence;1041179]"Yea, he was probably out golfing."

I wasn't implying he wasn't on the job, but I have yet to read where he was.


"It was reported in 2012 that Panetta and top military advisers were with Obama an hour after the attack planning responses."

Seriously where can I find that info?


"This idea that our people died because orders weren't given has not only been repeatedly dis-proven"- - -

What orders were given?