student loan forgivemess

[Pete F.]

I’ll take the party offering $10,000 to low and middle class Americans with student loan debt over the party offering $10,000 in bounties for people who capture women seeking an abortion any day.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I’ll take the party offering $10,000 to low and middle class Americans with student loan debt over the party offering $10,000 in bounties for people who capture women seeking an abortion any day.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

is 250k a year low or middle class?

Army probates are forced to give money to families making 250k a year. is that progressive or regressive?

[wdmso]

this sums up the tears of student loan haters myopic view of the world

Forgiving student loans has sparked quite the debate over fairness in public policy decisions. Those who are critical of the forgiveness of up to $20,000 feel it is not fair to those who never went to college or who already paid their college loans.
When you think about it, not many policies affect everyone equally. For example, I pay a Medicare premium based on my income. However, I am pretty healthy and never receive medical benefits equivalent to my premium contributions. I am sure others in my premium range receive benefits that are many multiples of my contribution. I also pay a large portion of my property taxes to support public education, although I currently have no children in school. My house has never caught on fire and hence I have never needed to call the Fire Department. Yet, part of my taxes that I have paid for over 50 years goes to support fire departments. I could give example after example. I could view this an unfair. However, society as a whole benefits when its members receive health care and are educated and have fire departments to limit fire damage. Hence, I do benefit from these policies.
After World War II, U.S. taxpayers funded the GI bill that paid tuition for white veterans (talk about unfairness—veterans of color were excluded) to attend the college or trade school of their choice. Millions took advantage of this. And, over their careers, they paid back in taxes many multiples of the benefits they were given. Not every individual was qualified for this program—in fact only a small percent did. However, society as a whole benefitted, not just in the tax dollars that were paid back, but in the contributions these educated citizens made through their work.
I will give one final example. During the early years of the current pandemic, the federal government developed the Payback Protection Program that enabled many businesses to continue to pay their employees and hence to continue their business operations. This benefitted both the businesses and their employees. As a retired person, I received no benefit from this, except that I do benefit when businesses remain operational and when employees continue to be able to support themselves. I am betting that many employees who benefitted from these payments did not go to college and hence did not incur student loans.
Over 10 millions businesses received these PPP loans with an average of $72,500 per loan. All—ALL— of these amounts have now been forgiven. If my math is correct, this totals over $740 million forgiven.
Under the Student Loan forgiveness program, only the first $10,000 for some people and only the first $20,000 for others is being forgiven. Obviously, this is far less per loan than the $72,500 per loan under the PPP. Forty three million Americans will benefit from the student loan forgiveness program. I long ago paid back my student loans. I could view this as being unfair to me. However, I benefit when 43 million people are in a better financial position. This allows them to more fully participate in our consumer economy by buying houses and all the things that go with that (furniture, appliances, etc.). This allows them to save for retirement.
I would ask those who are critical of the loan forgiveness program to think of the public policies that benefit you, but not everyone else. Certainly there are many.
We are a society. We all benefit when others are stronger and more successful.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

this sums up the tears of student loan haters myopic view of the world

Forgiving student loans has sparked quite the debate over fairness in public policy decisions. Those who are critical of the forgiveness of up to $20,000 feel it is not fair to those who never went to college or who already paid their college loans.
When you think about it, not many policies affect everyone equally. For example, I pay a Medicare premium based on my income. However, I am pretty healthy and never receive medical benefits equivalent to my premium contributions. I am sure others in my premium range receive benefits that are many multiples of my contribution. I also pay a large portion of my property taxes to support public education, although I currently have no children in school. My house has never caught on fire and hence I have never needed to call the Fire Department. Yet, part of my taxes that I have paid for over 50 years goes to support fire departments. I could give example after example. I could view this an unfair. However, society as a whole benefits when its members receive health care and are educated and have fire departments to limit fire damage. Hence, I do benefit from these policies.
After World War II, U.S. taxpayers funded the GI bill that paid tuition for white veterans (talk about unfairness—veterans of color were excluded) to attend the college or trade school of their choice. Millions took advantage of this. And, over their careers, they paid back in taxes many multiples of the benefits they were given. Not every individual was qualified for this program—in fact only a small percent did. However, society as a whole benefitted, not just in the tax dollars that were paid back, but in the contributions these educated citizens made through their work.
I will give one final example. During the early years of the current pandemic, the federal government developed the Payback Protection Program that enabled many businesses to continue to pay their employees and hence to continue their business operations. This benefitted both the businesses and their employees. As a retired person, I received no benefit from this, except that I do benefit when businesses remain operational and when employees continue to be able to support themselves. I am betting that many employees who benefitted from these payments did not go to college and hence did not incur student loans.
Over 10 millions businesses received these PPP loans with an average of $72,500 per loan. All—ALL— of these amounts have now been forgiven. If my math is correct, this totals over $740 million forgiven.
Under the Student Loan forgiveness program, only the first $10,000 for some people and only the first $20,000 for others is being forgiven. Obviously, this is far less per loan than the $72,500 per loan under the PPP. Forty three million Americans will benefit from the student loan forgiveness program. I long ago paid back my student loans. I could view this as being unfair to me. However, I benefit when 43 million people are in a better financial position. This allows them to more fully participate in our consumer economy by buying houses and all the things that go with that (furniture, appliances, etc.). This allows them to save for retirement.
I would ask those who are critical of the loan forgiveness program to think of the public policies that benefit you, but not everyone else. Certainly there are many.
We are a society. We all benefit when others are stronger and more successful.

Wrong.

The forgiven PPP "loans" were not set up as loans. The agreement, up front, was that the money would not have to be re-paid if the business used it to fund payroll and hired most employees back. That was the agreement. That's what both parties agreed to.

With your daughters student loan, which was always presented to her as a loan, the agreement was that she would benefit from the loan, and she would pay it back.

If she didn't want to have to pay it back, she had many options...different school, working first, joining the military, learning a trade, etc...

Nobody ever said that government spending had to benefit everyone equally. But we should try to avoid abject stupidity.

You daughter agreed to take out a loan to fund the benefit of going to college. It's her responsibility to re-pay it, not the responsibility of someone who made a different choice.

"this sums up the tears entitlement of student loan haters forgiveness supporters myopic view of the world"...

gimme gimme gimme.

WDMSO, how much of other peoples money are liberals entitled to, exactly? Is there any limit? I mean this, this is a sincere question, how much of my paycheck are you entitled to, and how much of my paycheck are my kids and I entitled to?

[wdmso]

iti

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Wrong.

The forgiven PPP "loans" were not set up as loans. The agreement, up front, was that the money would not have to be re-paid if the business used it to fund payroll and hired most employees back. That was the agreement. That's what both parties agreed to.

With your daughters student loan, which was always presented to her as a loan, the agreement was that she would benefit from the loan, and she would pay it back.

If she didn't want to have to pay it back, she had many options...different school, working first, joining the military, learning a trade, etc.. who ever said anyone getting this relife never wanted to pay it back

Nobody ever said that government spending had to benefit everyone equally. But we should try to avoid abject stupidity. So just because you think it is stupid its stupid . ok

You daughter agreed to take out a loan to fund the benefit of going to college. It's her responsibility to re-pay it, not the responsibility of someone who made a different choice.

my daughter didn't change a thing but keep thinking people getting this relief are not acting responsible . your suggesting is a lie

"this sums up the tears entitlement of student loan haters forgiveness supporters myopic view of the world"...

gimme gimme gimme.

WDMSO, how much of other peoples money are liberals entitled to, exactly? Is there any limit? I mean this, this is a sincere question, how much of my paycheck are you entitled to, and how much of my paycheck are my kids and I entitled to? need a tissue Jim

of course jim hiding being wording to justify his position shocking

Jim where is the mechanism for people who took out PPP loans that insured that money actually went to employees as required by law


Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) borrowers may be eligible for loan forgiveness if the funds were used
for eligible payroll costs, payments on business mortgage interest payments, rent, or utilities during either
the 8- or 24-week period after disbursement. A borrower can apply for forgiveness once it has used all
loan proceeds for which the borrower is requesting forgiveness. Borrowers can apply for forgiveness
any time up to the maturity date of the loan. If borrowers do not apply for forgiveness within 10
months after the last day of the covered period, then PPP loan payments are no longer deferred and
borrowers will begin making loan payments to their PPP lender.


Republicans love their Business socialism but help for the avg american is bad Socialism

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) borrowers may be eligible for loan forgiveness if the funds were used
for eligible payroll costs, payments on business mortgage interest payments, rent, or utilities during either
the 8- or 24-week period after disbursement. A borrower can apply for forgiveness once it has used all
loan proceeds for which the borrower is requesting forgiveness. Borrowers can apply for forgiveness
any time up to the maturity date of the loan. If borrowers do not apply for forgiveness within 10
months after the last day of the covered period, then PPP loan payments are no longer deferred and
borrowers will begin making loan payments to their PPP lender.

You're proving my point.

When businesses took PPP funds, they were not set up as loans. The business owner agreed to spend the money on payroll and agreed to hire the employees back. If they did that, the feds agreed to waive repayment. So both parties did what they agreed to do.

That's not even close to what's happening here. These borrowers signed a contract to repay the loan. That was the agreement. They're changing the terms after the fact.

Apples and oranges.

And I don't like business socialism, I didn't like the covid bailouts or PPP. But another big difference, is that business owners didn't choose to lose their business income. That was forced upon them (unnecessarily as it turns out) by state governments. Business owners did not choose to be shut down, it was forced on them.

Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.

My wife got a masters degree in data analytics, we looked at student loans, decided to take put a home equity loan instead. Took 3 years to pay it off, made the last payment a few weeks ago. I guess we were suckers for doing what we said we'd do.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

After World War II, U.S. taxpayers funded the GI bill that paid tuition for white veterans (talk about unfairness—veterans of color were excluded) to attend the college or trade school of their choice..

They went to war.

If anyone with a student loan wants to serve in the military or teach in an inner city (or any service like that), no one would oppose helping them pay for their loans. These students aren't doing that service, they just want a freebie.

How in Gods name can you not see that difference?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

They went to war.

If anyone with a student loan wants to serve in the military or teach in an inner city (or any service like that), no one would oppose helping them pay for their loans. These students aren't doing that service, they just want a freebie.

How in Gods name can you not see that difference?

Guessing you missed black soldier’s weren’t allowed to use the benefit


You keep blaming students! There not driving the bus. Then claim that’s not what you’re doing

But insisting “Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.”

You should learn division seeing you think your taxes are not divided among many local and state needs. And in no way cover your children education not to mention 3 no matter how you try to twist the math

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Guessing you missed black soldier’s weren’t allowed to use the benefit


You keep blaming students! There not driving the bus. Then claim that’s not what you’re doing

But insisting “Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.”

You should learn division seeing you think your taxes are not divided among many local and state needs. And in no way cover your children education not to mention 3 no matter how you try to twist the math

i just said 5 minutes ago, i blame biden and advocates for this bill, not people who were paying their loans.

you lie like Trump, you know that? You lie constantly, every single
time you’re on the losing side of a debate. as you are here with this indefensible stupidity. BecUse you can’t just admit it makes no sense.

I also just said i’m fine with my taxes going to things i don’t hope
to ever use. I could not have been more clear. Then you say i don’t get that my taxes are spread around.

You aren’t capable of being honest for three consecutive sentences

Some of my tax dollars are used to educate my kids. I ask for some ( not all ) of that back. i know that may not cover tuition at catholic school, but every little bit helps.

I also know that if public school faced competition, they improve very quickly.

Yes wayne, i insist that no one forced your daughter to take student loans. Am i wrong, or am I correct?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Guessing you missed black soldier’s weren’t allowed to use the benefit


You keep blaming students! There not driving the bus. Then claim that’s not what you’re doing

But insisting “Your daughter chose to take out a loan. No one forced her.”

You should learn division seeing you think your taxes are not divided among many local and state needs. And in no way cover your children education not to mention 3 no matter how you try to twist the math

I don't blame your daughter for the implementation of this policy. I use her as an example of why it's stupid policy, because it retroactively changes the terms of her agreement, and she didn't do anything to deserve it.

Why not hold universities accountable? Why not force them to have some skin in this game.

Wayne, what would you say to someone who would have gone to college but didn't want the debt, so they joined the military instead? What do you say to people who made a different choice for that exact reason? "ha ha, too bad you sucker"?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't blame your daughter for the implementation of this policy. I use her as an example of why it's stupid policy, because it retroactively changes the terms of her agreement, and she didn't do anything to deserve it.

Why not hold universities accountable? Why not force them to have some skin in this game.

Wayne, what would you say to someone who would have gone to college but didn't want the debt, so they joined the military instead? What do you say to people who made a different choice for that exact reason? "ha ha, too bad you sucker"?

I made the same choice never considered myself a sucker

I joined to server my country not avoid debt

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

is 250k a year low or middle class?

Army probates are forced to give money to families making 250k a year. is that progressive or regressive?

of course Jim picks the least likely outcome .. and presents it as the Norm not the exception

FYI the Army gets paid via the taxpayers they also get their housing subsidized by the government BHA starts at 2900 bucks a month for an e 5 and tops out at $5,037 in Boston

I know a lot of people who have had their homes paid for via the taxpayers and its cost them nothing out of pocket


Hell I know 1 person who just made a 100k of the sale of his home which the government BHA basic housing allotment paid his entire mortgage.. and his friend who are not married are forced to live in on base housing and do not get an extra 2900 bucks to buy a home

its not fair but thats the system

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

of course Jim picks the least likely outcome .. and presents it as the Norm not the exception

FYI the Army gets paid via the taxpayers they also get their housing subsidized by the government BHA starts at 2900 bucks a month for an e 5 and tops out at $5,037 in Boston

I know a lot of people who have had their homes paid for via the taxpayers and its cost them nothing out of pocket


Hell I know 1 person who just made a 100k of the sale of his home which the government BHA basic housing allotment paid his entire mortgage.. and his friend who are not married are forced to live in on base housing and do not get an extra 2900 bucks to buy a home

its not fair but thats the system

Why is that unlikely?

"FYI the Army gets paid via the taxpayers"

Yes, Einstein, and they are also serving the taxpayer, so it's reasonable that they'd be funded by the taxpayer. That's not what this program is, this loan forgiveness gives a windfall to everyone with a loan with no requirement that they do anything of public service.

How do you not see that?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Why is that unlikely?

"FYI the Army gets paid via the taxpayers"

Yes, Einstein, and they are also serving the taxpayer, so it's reasonable that they'd be funded by the taxpayer. That's not what this program is, this loan forgiveness gives a windfall to everyone with a loan with no requirement that they do anything of public service.

How do you not see that?

you just hate it for the sake of hating it like i said you love socialism when its benefits corporations .. but when it benefits everyday americans not so much

but you want your school voucher and no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

you just hate it for the sake of hating it like i said you love socialism when its benefits corporations .. but when it benefits everyday americans not so much

but you want your school voucher and no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling

"you just hate it for the sake of hating it"

No, I hate it because it punishes those who did the right thing (or had nothing whatsoever to do with those loans because they didn't go to college), it rewards people who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, it's perfectly regressive in that it will take from the poor and give to the wealthy, and it will make college more expensive, less expensive.

"no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling"

No, I want MY MONEY, not anyone elses money, to be able to help fund my kids schooling.

Do you understand the difference between my money, and someone else's money?

Youre either lying to try to make your point, or you really have no grasp of this stuff.

YOU are the one who supports taking other peoples money to fund your kids education, because that's exactly what this stupidity is.

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"you just hate it for the sake of hating it"

No, I hate it because it punishes those who did the right thing (or had nothing whatsoever to do with those loans because they didn't go to college), it rewards people who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, it's perfectly regressive in that it will take from the poor and give to the wealthy, and it will make college more expensive, less expensive.

"no issues for other to pay for your children's religious schooling"

No, I want MY MONEY, not anyone elses money, to be able to help fund my kids schooling.

Do you understand the difference between my money, and someone else's money?

Youre either lying to try to make your point, or you really have no grasp of this stuff.

YOU are the one who supports taking other peoples money to fund your kids education, because that's exactly what this stupidity is.

No, I want MY MONEY, not anyone elses money, to be able to help fund my kids schooling.

to bad that's not how taxes work