Anyone following what's going on in Wisconsin?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

The hell it is. The unions are screaming that the proposed cuts (excluding the loss of CB) are too stiff.

Well, the union met the governor on much of the costs...

still seems like this is the sticky wheel is collective bargaining.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Well, the union met the governor on much of the costs...

still seems like this is the sticky wheel is collective bargaining.

You are 100% correct, latest reports say that the unions proposed to agree to all of the financial concessions, if the state would leave collective bargaining in place, and the gov gave them an emphatic "no".

As I said earlier, I htink the unions overplayed their hand terribly, and put the governor in a position where if he backs off anything, he looks weak. 3 months into his term, he won't want to appear weak.

I hope he destroys this union, and that other states follow suit. You should either give your customers (in this case, taxpayers) a non-union alternative, or get rid of the union. Why can't these folks negotiate their pay with their employer just like veeryone else does? I don't get it.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

As I said earlier, I htink the unions overplayed their hand terribly, and put the governor in a position where if he backs off anything, he looks weak. 3 months into his term, he won't want to appear weak.

OR

The gov overplayed his hand and it backfires on him.

they agreed to 100% of the costs. 100% as long as they can keep the right to collective bargining.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

OR

The gov overplayed his hand and it backfires on him.

they agreed to 100% of the costs. 100% as long as they can keep the right to collective bargining.

RIROCKHOUND, you may be right. However, in my opinion, when people stop looking at the "don't hate me because I'm a teacher" signs, and they realize that all the gov is asking for is for teachers to pay LESS THAN HALF of what the taxpayers have to pay, more people will side with the gov.

Again, why is it unfair to ask teachers to pay 13% of the cost of health insurance, if everyone else pays 30%.

As Obama likes to say (or more correctly, he used to like to say), "elections have consequences". The people in WI voted for Republicans.

One last thing? anyone siding with the Dems who fled the state, has forever forfeited the right to call Republicans "obstructionists".

This is a fascinating event, which I think will have repurcussions way beyond WI.

[TheSpecialist]

You know what would be better, if the teachers said screw you and all quit. Then let the parents all stay home from work to watch and home school them.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

You know what would be better, if the teachers said screw you and all quit. Then let the parents all stay home from work to watch and home school them.

No, what would happen is, parents would get their property taxes back and use that money to enroll their kids in private schools, which are better, cheaper, and NOT coincidentally, have no unions!!

And then the teachers would all go to the private sector, and by 10:00 AM on the first day they'd realize how great they had it.

[RIROCKHOUND]

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;838618]No, what would happen is, parents would get their property taxes back and use that money to enroll their kids in private schools, which are better, cheaper, and NOT coincidentally, have no unions!!QUOTE]

Property taxes in round numbers, for me is $3500/year, what % of that is education? Call it 2K. I have one kid, what if I had 5?

Whats the tuition of the average private school? Hendrican is 11K, so is Prout. Maybe grammar school age is cheaper.


The education majors (I was dabbling in an education double major for a bit) I was enrolled with who ended up in Private schools, were not the cream of the crop and couldn't wait to get out b/c the money sucks. The exception are religious heavy schools, were many educators in those schools have something else invested in it.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

No, what would happen is, parents would get their property taxes back and use that money to enroll their kids in private schools, which are better, cheaper, and NOT coincidentally, have no unions!!

And then the teachers would all go to the private sector, and by 10:00 AM on the first day they'd realize how great they had it.

Wrong because they get a bargain now, most could not afford private schools How much in tax dollars would they get back? BC high school cost 15g's a year, same as most of the best private schools

[scottw]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

You know what would be better, if the teachers said screw you and all quit. Then let the parents all stay home from work to watch and home school them.

thanks for illustrating why collective bargaining should be eliminated...

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

RIROCKHOUND, you may be right. However, in my opinion, when people stop looking at the "don't hate me because I'm a teacher" signs, and they realize that all the gov is asking for is for teachers to pay LESS THAN HALF of what the taxpayers have to pay, more people will side with the gov.

They just conceeded to exactly what was asked. Now he is looking like he is trying to kill the union, which may have been his first task and ultimate goal.

Specialist:
my very Right leaning gradfather was on an anti-teachers union rant once, and that stopped him in his tracks. Fine, they all get fired or quit, who teaches them?
and will the kids really fare better?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

They just conceeded to exactly what was asked. Now he is looking like he is trying to kill the union, which may have been his first task and ultimate goal.

Specialist:
my very Right leaning gradfather was on an anti-teachers union rant once, and that stopped him in his tracks. Fine, they all get fired or quit, who teaches them?
and will the kids really fare better?

"Now he is looking like he is trying to kill the union, which may have been his first task and ultimate goal."

You may well be right. I wish him luck on this noble quest. He also doesn't want to be seen as someone who can be bullied. If the unions made that offer before all of their histrionics, maybe he would have accepted. But they had to throw a fit like a 3 year-old, so they forced his hand. When I was in the USMC, we had an old saying..."if you're going to pull the trigger, make sure you don't have the gun aimed at your own d**k.". Well, these unions shot themselves in their own you-know-whats.


"they all get fired or quit, who teaches them? "

Do you really believe that NO ONE will want teachers jobs, if teachers are required to pay 13% of their health insurance? People will still kill for those jobs. What part of "13% is half of what everyone else pays" don't you understand?

If these teachers would rather quit than pay 13% of their health insurance costs, then OBVIOUSLY they are only in this for the cushy benefits, and thus they're in the wrong profession to begin with.

They won't quit, because as greedy as they are, they're smart enough to know how much cushier they have it than those in the private scetor.

No one here has mentioned that these parasites all called in sick, shutting down the schools for 3 days. So the parents have to either burn through precious vacation days, or spend $$ on daycare at the last minute.

F**k these teachers and the horses they rode in on. This reminds me of one of my heroes, former Mass Governor Calvin Coolidge. In 1919 I believe, the Massachusetts cops went on strike. Then-governor Coolidge fired them all, with no chance of ever being re-hired. A few years later, he was in the White House.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"Now he is looking like he is trying to kill the union, which may have been his first task and ultimate goal."

You may well be right. I wish him luck on this noble quest. He also doesn't want to be seen as someone who can be bullied. If the unions made that offer before all of their histrionics, maybe he would have accepted. But they had to throw a fit like a 3 year-old, so they forced his hand. When I was in the USMC, we had an old saying..."if you're going to pull the trigger, make sure you don't have the gun aimed at your own d**k.". Well, these unions shot themselves in their own you-know-whats.


"they all get fired or quit, who teaches them? "

Do you really believe that NO ONE will want teachers jobs, if teachers are required to pay 13% of their health insurance? People will still kill for those jobs. What part of "13% is half of what everyone else pays" don't you understand? Poor parents have to pay for day care, but they can all afford to send their kids to private school right. Teachers do much more than teach the kids, they act as day care as well right?

If these teachers would rather quit than pay 13% of their health insurance costs, then OBVIOUSLY they are only in this for the cushy benefits, and thus they're in the wrong profession to begin with.

They won't quit, because as greedy as they are, they're smart enough to know how much cushier they have it than those in the private scetor.

No one here has mentioned that these parasites all called in sick, shutting down the schools for 3 days. So the parents have to either burn through precious vacation days, or spend $$ on daycare at the last minute.

F**k these teachers and the horses they rode in on. This reminds me of one of my heroes, former Mass Governor Calvin Coolidge. In 1919 I believe, the Massachusetts cops went on strike. Then-governor Coolidge fired them all, with no chance of ever being re-hired. A few years later, he was in the White House.

It's not a question of anyone wanting a teacher job, it is a question of being able to meet the standards to be hired as a teacher.

As far as them calling in sick, what would happen if they all quit, how long would it take for people to fill their shoes, especially after seeing the crap that the govenor is pulling. No one in their right mind would want that job.