No mental health issue in america.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Because it's not true. Death by firearms in the Dakota's is in the lower third of all states but it's double NY, NJ, RI, MA, HI etc...

Worst offenders were all heavy Trump states. Go figure.

Spence, thanks for proving that you are just as guilty. This spree has no party affiliation. Don't associate it in such a way. Very shallow agenda Jeff
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

Spence, thanks for proving that you are just as guilty. This spree has no party affiliation. Don't associate it in such a way. Very shallow agenda Jeff
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Pffffttt...the causes might not be partisan but the desire to work on the problem most certainly is.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Pffffttt...the causes might not be partisan but the desire to work on the problem most certainly is.

Jim just showed two posts above this how hard folks with old fashioned family values, many of whom are Republicans, work on the problem. What are the odds that Jim's kids will fall in love with the sexiness of an AR-15, or any other gun, and then shooting up a school full of children.

But if we insist that Trump, or federal politicians (who do such a great job in every thing else) make it better, then the problem will get "fixed." But never mind that when those politicians fix something, their solutions usually create more problems. And let's not get hung up on that their solutions tend to go astray of the Constitution and wind up in their getting more power at the expense of ours. After all, they have these wonderful, reasonable discussions with each other. And somehow get richer, more powerful, and more entrenched.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by spence

Pffffttt...the causes might not be partisan but the desire to work on the problem most certainly is.

But that is not the statement that I responded to Jeff,is it? If you think hard you may even recognize that you changed topics.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Pffffttt...the causes might not be partisan but the desire to work on the problem most certainly is.

It is?

So your party encouraging black teenage girls to have babies, is solving the problem?

Your party being in bed with Hollywood poisoning our kids with violence that makes them desensitized to it, is solving the problem?

Put down the Kool Aid for a split second and be honest would it kill you?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So your party encouraging black teenage girls to have babies, is solving the problem?

Really Jim?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Really Jim?

God damn right, really. Read the report written by the late great liberal senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who (when he was Secretary of Labor, I think??) predicted decades ago that liberal welfare would mean the end of the black nuclear family, which would be a catastrophe for poor blacks.

When he wrote that report, people like you said "really, Mr Moynihan?"

He was exactly, 100 percent correct. To this day, liberals refuse to concede that he was right. Despite everything happening right under your noses, you deny it. That's productive.

That's liberalism. You implement a liberal idea. if it works, you say "see, liberalism works". When it fails, you stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la la".

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

God damn right, really. Read the report written by the late great liberal senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who (when he was Secretary of Labor, I think??) predicted decades ago that liberal welfare would mean the end of the black nuclear family, which would be a catastrophe for poor blacks.

When he wrote that report, people like you said "really, Mr Moynihan?"

Actually he was advocating for stronger welfare to support the lack of employment for black men. You do realize he was a liberal in a liberal administration writing to support a liberal policy don't you?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Actually he was advocating for stronger welfare to support the lack of employment for black men. You do realize he was a liberal in a liberal administration writing to support a liberal policy don't you?
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You literally just make stuff up? Complete fabrication?

He was calling for programs that did what he thought was vital - restore the black nuclear family. He predicted, correctly, that welfare as we know it, would cause continued deterioration of the black nuclear family, and that would be a catastrophe.

He was right. 100% right. You disagree?

Yes he was a liberal, a heroic liberal who, unlike you, was able to speak the truth, even when said truth didn't necessarily support liberalism.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

It is?

So your party encouraging black teenage girls to have babies, is solving the problem?

Your party being in bed with Hollywood poisoning our kids with violence that makes them desensitized to it, is solving the problem?

Put down the Kool Aid for a split second and be honest would it kill you?

You may think you are honest with yourself, but that doesn't mean what you say is factually correct. The same jack in the boxes that spew this crap to get elected are the ones cheating on their wives. The majority of the country sees through the bs of the 1950's culture you seem to think is utopia. By the way, birth rates among black and hispanic teens today are about 25% what they were in 1990 after 12 years of Republican leadership. The lowest rates by the way are all the NE states, NJ, NY, PA, VA, WI,MN, WA, UT, IA. See a trend?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

You may think you are honest with yourself, but that doesn't mean what you say is factually correct. The same jack in the boxes that spew this crap to get elected are the ones cheating on their wives. The majority of the country sees through the bs of the 1950's culture you seem to think is utopia. By the way, birth rates among black and hispanic teens today are about 25% what they were in 1990 after 12 years of Republican leadership. The lowest rates by the way are all the NE states, NJ, NY, PA, VA, WI,MN, WA, UT, IA. See a trend?

"You may think you are honest with yourself"

Yes I do.

"The same jack in the boxes that spew this crap to get elected are the ones cheating on their wives"

I'm not responsible or accountable for anything a politician does. I never said Republican politicians are always role models of virtue. I am talking about what the parties stand for (not how their respective politicians behave). In terms of what each party stands for, there is big distinction in terms of healthy family values. Voting for a politician, is not an endorsement of everything that politician does. I would think Democrats learned lesson very well, when Bill Clinton was POTUS.

I believe infidelity is wrong. I also voted for Bill Clinton, and I also voted for Donald Trump. That doesn't mean I think infidelity is good, and it doesn't mean I lose the moral authority to say "infidelity is bad".

"The majority of the country sees through the bs of the 1950's culture you seem to think is utopia"

Tell me what mass shooting statistics were back then, or homicide rates in Chicago, or divorce rates, or drug use rates, or abortion rates, or rates of infidelity, or rates of fatherlessness, or rates of sexually transmitted disease, or how many latch key kids there were, or how many kids not cared for by a parent? Hmmm?

There were awful parts of the 1950s, particularly Democrat racism. But in terms of family values? I'd take that, over what I see around me today, every day and twice on Sunday. You are free to disagree and even to call it "B.S" But I see you provided zero evidence that it's BS.

"birth rates among black and hispanic teens today are about 25% what they were in 1990 "

If that's true, it's because liberalism is convincing blacks to abort themselves almost out of existence. Maybe democrats are trying to finish what they started in the 1950s?

"See a trend"

I do. The trend I see is that the GOP has the white house, both chambers of congress, and a huge majority of governorships and state legislatures. So I'm not sure the majority of the country thinks I am full of BS.

[detbuch]

[QUOTE=zimmy;1137589]The majority of the country sees through the bs of the 1950's culture you seem to think is utopia.

Socialism and Communism (sort of the same thing) Are the only Utopian systems I'm aware of. 1950's culture in the U.S. then was family oriented. Blacks were mostly born into family structures which mostly stayed together. Most blacks are now born out of wedlock and don't have examples of family life to model themselves. That is also happening on a lesser scale to whites.

[QUOTE=zimmy]By the way, birth rates among black and hispanic teens today are about 25% what they were in 1990 after 12 years of Republican leadership.[QUOTE]

Abortion.

[zimmy]

[QUOTE=detbuch;1137597][QUOTE=zimmy;1137589]The majority of the country sees through the bs of the 1950's culture you seem to think is utopia.

Socialism and Communism (sort of the same thing) Are the only Utopian systems I'm aware of (you should tell Jim the 50's weren't Utopia. He thinks it was.) 1950's culture in the U.S. then was family oriented.
Meaning women knew their place?

[QUOTE=zimmy]By the way, birth rates among black and hispanic teens today are about 25% what they were in 1990 after 12 years of Republican leadership.

Abortion.

Abortion rate is half now what it was in 1980 and about 60% of what it was in 1990. You, like Jim, should try facts rather than what you "feel" is true.

[detbuch]

[QUOTE=zimmy;1137632][QUOTE=detbuch;1137597][QUOTE=zimmy;1137589]The majority of the country sees through the bs of the 1950's culture you seem to think is utopia.

Socialism and Communism (sort of the same thing) Are the only Utopian systems I'm aware of (you should tell Jim the 50's weren't Utopia. He thinks it was.) 1950's culture in the U.S. then was family oriented.
Meaning women knew their place?

Originally Posted by zimmy

By the way, birth rates among black and hispanic teens today are about 25% what they were in 1990 after 12 years of Republican leadership.
Abortion rate is half now what it was in 1980 and about 60% of what it was in 1990. You, like Jim, should try facts rather than what you "feel" is true.

I have not heard Jim refer to the 1950's as utopia. You're putting that word in his mouth. That is not an honest way to have a discussion.

Your remark that 1950's family oriented culture meant that women knew their place was more snotty than useful as a point of comparison between then and now. Especially as relating to black women. The point being that black women of child bearing age don't have, now, in contrast to the 1950's, an intact family with a father in the home. So then neither do their children. Ergo the culture, for them, is not family oriented in a traditional sense, but a fatherless culture, and for many, a government dependent culture as a model for their children.

The time in question was the 1950's. You jumped it to 1990 and to today. Again, not an honest comparison of values of the 1950's to today.

You originally brought up birth rates of blacks and Hispanics. Was the abortion rate you later spoke of as dramatically dropping also pertaining to blacks and Hispanics, or overall including all races? There's this excerpt from an article on the subject:

"In 2014, a total of 303,844 blacks died in the U.S. That same year, an estimated 954,000 abortions took place in the United States. If 36% were performed on black women, that means 343,440 black babies were aborted. In other words, more blacks are killed by abortion each year in the United States than by all other causes combined.

"In 2010, the black population in the U.S. stood just shy of at 39 million. The CDC reports that during the 1970's, roughly 24% of all U.S. abortions were performed on black women. That percentage rose to 30% in the 1980's, 34% in the 1990's and 36% in the 2000's. That means that about 31% of all U.S. abortions since 1973 have been performed on African American women. Based on the January 2013 estimate that there have been 55.7 million abortions in the United States since 1973, we can deduce that approximately 17 million of the aborted babies were black.

"Despite an overall black population growth of 12% between 2000 and 2010, the U.S. Census Bureau reports that the black population "grew at a slower rate than most other major race and ethnic groups in the country." CBS News reported in 2009 that "Hispanics have surpassed blacks as the nation's largest minority group." Can there be any question about the role abortion has played in this demographic shift? Despite similar population numbers, Hispanic women account for approximately 19% of U.S. abortions whereas African-American women account for up to 36%. From 1973 to 2012, abortion reduced the black population by 30%, and that doesn't even factor in all the children that would have been born to those aborted a generation ago. To put it bluntly, abortion has thinned the black community in ways the Ku Klux Klan could have only dreamed of."

In 1950 the Black population in the U.S. was about 15 million. Since 1973 about 17 million Blacks (more than the entire Black population at the time we were discussing) were aborted. On average almost 1900 Blacks are aborted every day in the U.S. In N.Y. City more Blacks are aborted than are born. Blacks in the U.S. are aborted at 3 times the rate as whites.