race point over sand permit

[STRIPERSHAWN]

can anybody fill me in on the race point beach , is the whole beach closed off right know? as i have the week of the 4th 7 day pass already ,did they close everything or is coast guard still open ,i paid for permit in advance, but if they close the whole beach down why would they keep your money for not being able too use the beach,sounds like a complete ripoff too me, this will be the last year i bye a permit and invest a week of vaction time , and all the money i spend down on the outer cape and bait shops and resterants and housing too bad great spot , im afraid im not the only one that feels this way shawn from ludlow mass

[Slingah]

sorry to say...but I think your chit outta luck
look around here...there is a thread on it

[Mike P]

Sorry to say it, but you're pharked. The Feds are offering you a nice consolation prize, free day parking at Herring Cove

While I understand your frustration, I would encourage people to buy permits in the future. Maybe re-think your weekly plans and buy a permit for weeks when you can be pretty sure the beach will be open. IMO the Feds don't give a rat's ass or not whether they sell a single permit, as whatever revenue they bring in is a drop in the bucket for the National Parks Service's operating budget. However, when permit sales shrink to a trickle, it gives them the excuse to take away ORV access in the Seashore for good. Remember, we lost the rest of the outer beach in the 80s, when bass fishing tanked and people started to pass on buying permits. "Why do we need to keep 30 miles of beach open when all the vehicles we sold permits to will fit in 6 miles?"

[Backbeach Jake]

After further thinking on this subject ( who snickered?), I believe that this is about as bad as it will get. The whole shebang is closed for , what, 28-30 days? The time that a Plover takes to hatch and fly. So every year from here on out you can count on the Race being closed from the middle of June to the middle of July. That's just how the birds work. It'll only stay open all season when the birds leave the endangered list. So, it's actually to our advantage not to rush the little wretch's recovery. A little pain=no pain later. I don't like it either but I have to face reality...
MIkeP is right No demand=No access

[MAC]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

That's just how the birds work. It'll only stay open all season when the birds leave the endangered list.

The birds have to reach a certain # of pairs in 3 different wintering areas of the country. Then then have to sustain that # for 15 years before they will be removed. So chances are we may never see them removed in our lifetime.

The worst part is they are only listed as threatened not endangered. If changed to endangered it may bring on a whole new set of rules. I'll keep buying my permit even though it sux to be locked out. If we stop buying permits the bird people will win.

[Flaptail]

Originally Posted by MAC

The birds have to reach a certain # of pairs in 3 different wintering areas of the country. Then then have to sustain that # for 15 years before they will be removed. So chances are we may never see them removed in our lifetime.

The worst part is they are only listed as threatened not endangered. If changed to endangered it may bring on a whole new set of rules. I'll keep buying my permit even though it sux to be locked out. If we stop buying permits the bird people will win.

Bingo!

[Backbeach Jake]

So....it was the bird people snickering. In MA we're forced to pay an extra 5spot on our freshy and hunting licenses for wild lands that we sometimes are shut out of by people who pay not one red cent. This country is turning into one giant bird sanctuary. Details! it's always the details that screw my plans. Seriously tho there are those out there who would make our wild lands into a Disney movie, they have no idea what wild is. Next time we meet ask me to tell you the story of my brother in law and the tree huggers who are now afraid of the woods.

[gone fishin]

I agree with Mac - keep calling the Rangers station for an update. If they don't receive any calls they will figure the bird prople win. Maybe we will get lucky and they will open a part of the beach earlier than the middle of July or so.

ORV line 508-487-3698 or for more information call 508-487-2100 extension 110. The more info will put you on the line with a ranger. Be courtious and don't piss them off by being pushy. If you noticed on your weekly application there was a statement that applied to the beach possibly being shut down. No refunds.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by STRIPERSHAWN

can anybody fill me in on the race point beach , is the whole beach closed off right know? as i have the week of the 4th 7 day pass already ,did they close everything or is coast guard still open?

Shawn, coast guard landing in truro is still available to drive on at night, I don't think you can go all the way to long nook but it's drivable to a point.

I'll keep buying my permit also. I'm not giving in to those enviromental whakos. I mean I love nature too but let's get real

BBJ, good point about the extra stamp money, what do the non fishers give towards those lakes and streams?

[fishonnelsons]

.

Some facts - goal is 2000 pairs on the whole coast, split among 4 areas, each with their own goal. Now at 1632, New England at 630, over their goal of 625, but tough noogies, need to hit 2000 number for five years, and then ensure actions do not diminish that.

Need continual letters, e-mails, phone calls to Supt George Price, Cape Cod National Seashore, 99 Marconi Rd., Wellfleet, Ma, 02667, 508-349-3785, ext 203, george_price@nps.gov. Need to open up talks again to have more flexibility in opening up alternate routes while the plovers do there thing.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by fishonnelsons

.



Need continual letters, e-mails, phone calls to Supt George Price, Cape Cod National Seashore, 99 Marconi Rd., Wellfleet, Ma, 02667, 508-349-3785, ext 203, george_price@nps.gov. Need to open up talks again to have more flexibility in opening up alternate routes while the plovers do there thing.

Absolutely
the more emails, the better
we all have to stick together.

[Karl F]

Mr. Price's viewpoint, as published in this weeks CCTimes...


June 24, 2006

In defense of the piping plover
By GEORGE E. PRICE JR.
We are in the middle of the piping plover nesting season. To some, it is a time to celebrate an environmental success story; to others it's a cause for frustration and economic loss.

In 1986, the piping plover was listed as ''threatened'' by the federal government. That meant the bird would be protected while it nested on beaches, such as Cape Cod, and raised its young along the ''wrack'' line and among retreating waves.

But the environment the plover calls home puts these tiny birds directly in the path of people trying to enjoy the same beaches, especially those of us with off-road vehicles (ORV). And the need to protect the birds and their nests has ramifications not just for those on four wheels, but for hikers, dog walkers - even kite flyers.

As someone whose previous experience with Cape beaches and shorebirds has been as a ''happy end user'' - as a visitor and bird watcher - I am now experiencing a crash course in beach management, legal responsibilities, bird behavior, and the impact of it all on hundreds of visitors.

The conflict is simple: The land where people want to be is the same land these birds depend on for their survival. The piping plover's nests and eggs are almost impossible to see to the untrained eye. The chicks are described as ''cotton balls on tooth picks.'' When approached by a dog or kite, the adult identifies them as predators and behaves accordingly by leaving the nest to distract the predator, which means the eggs are not covered or the chicks are not fed. If this happens on a hot day in sunlight, the eggs can ''cook'' in minutes. If the chicks are feeding as a vehicle approaches, they ''hunker down'' to the lowest area on the beach. This area is often a footprint or tire track of a previous traveler. This is often where the tiny remains are found.

Very often, environmental news is bad: Disappearing rain forests, drained marshes, leveled forests and threatened open space. The evolving success of piping plover recovery is a real success story, one we can be proud of right here on the Cape. In 20 years, we have cultivated tremendous progress in their local recovery. And I mean we - all the towns on the Cape which have nesting shorebirds; all the off-road drivers who have respected the nesting areas; all the beachgoers who have been careful not to disrupt the bird families; the leadership from the state and U.S. Fish & Wildlife services and the dedicated individuals who spend a tremendous number of hours focusing on bird survival and human interaction.

The closures are temporary. Unless there is re-nesting due to late storms, the period of concern is about four weeks. ORV permit holders on the National Seashore drove the beaches from April 15 to June 11, when we needed to close the ORV corridor. We expect it will reopen by mid-July and will remain open through Nov. 15. We will honor the ORV permits as day passes at the three Seashore beaches in Truro and Provincetown during this closure.

I have had people ask why affected areas cannot be shared by people and the birds. People can still access all public National Seashore beaches where fencing and signs identify bird nesting areas. It's the vehicle access areas that are affected.

I could seek permission for a program that allows for a certain amount of ''take.'' I learned that ''take'' means dead birds. I don't believe the people who support the Cape Cod National Seashore want the National Park Service to allow for ''take'' when the species' survival remains threatened. By sharing the beach now, and putting up with this temporary ORV closure, we are all helping to ensure that plovers will be here for our children and grandchildren to enjoy.

George E. Price Jr. is the superintendent of the Cape Cod National Seashore.

(Published: June 24, 2006)


I think you can get a good sense of what side of the fence he is camped on.
Yes, email, write or call him, but remember the law comes from the top, it is up to him to enforce it, as he sees fit. Even with the parameters that allow him some flexibility, he will go on the extreme side for the birds, not the people. Keep Pestering your Senators, and Congressmen too.

[Karl F]

"And the need to protect the birds and their nests has ramifications not just for those on four wheels, but for hikers, dog walkers - even kite flyers."

That one sentence, should send chills thru all... look who is next in line after they get rid of vehicles.. hikers (walk ons) dog walkers, (they already banned dogs at Nauset), and kite flyers (kids, and other such problem types)... right out of the Audubon Agenda book.....

[Swimmer]

Can't let PETA win.

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by Karl F

"And the need to protect the birds and their nests has ramifications not just for those on four wheels, but for hikers, dog walkers - even kite flyers."

That one sentence, should send chills thru all... look who is next in line after they get rid of vehicles.. hikers (walk ons) dog walkers, (they already banned dogs at Nauset), and kite flyers (kids, and other such problem types)... right out of the Audubon Agenda book.....

ya , I don't like this direction

it's gotten rediculous

[derf]

i know it not up there but ; it's the same issue at cape hatteras .
obpa , ncbba , chapa and others fought this fight about 'critical wintering habibat' and won . now it's back again ....
they close the beaches in the summer ; now they want to do it in the winter .
derf

Proposal would close parts of Outer Banks seashore to help threatened bird
By CATHERINE KOZAK, The Virginian-Pilot
© June 19, 2006
Last updated: 10:26 PM


The piping plover, the little sand-colored bird that has incited big controversy on the Outer Banks, is again the subject of a proposed government rule that could result in closures of large swaths of Cape Hatteras National Seashore for critical wintering habitat.

The proposal revamps the 2001 rule that designated 3,600 acres of the national seashore as essential to the recovery of the species. That designation was thrown out by a federal judge in November 2004 after a consortium of recreational beach-user groups challenged the size of the protected area and the economic effects of beach closures.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service posted an amended designation in the Federal Register on June 12 .

John Couch, president of the Outer Banks Preservation Association, a group that promotes open access to the beach, said it is still unclear how the new proposal could affect beach driving and other beach uses.

As a member of the Cape Hatteras Access Preservation Alliance, the association was a plaintiff in the 2003 lawsuit. The alliance also included Dare and Hyde counties, the Cape Lookout Mobile Sportsfishermen, the Cape Hatteras Anglers Club, the North Carolina Beach Buggy Association, United Mobile Sportsfishermen, the Ocracoke Civic Association and the North Carolina Shore and Beach Preservation Association.

“We need to look it over – the legal part of it – and make some decision,” Couch said Friday. “It’s a little early yet.”

The plaintiff’s attorney has not had the opportunity to advise the group on its next step, he said, but the alliance is “all fired up” about some parts of the revived rule.

“It seems at first glance that the area is bigger than it was last time,” he said. “Just as a layman, I’m questioning the size of it.”

But Sidney Maddock, field technician for Audubon North Carolina, said he is concerned because the proposal does not include the north part of Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge , which had been included in the previous designation.

Part of his worry is centered on the ongoing planning for the Herbert C. Bonner Bridge replacement project , which is studying an alternative that would bypass Pea Island, and another that would include maintenance of the road through Pea Island.

“Depending on what bridge alignment is picked, you’ll have an alignment that allows restoration of the refuge,” Maddock said, “or you’ll have an alignment that’s picked that will harm the refuge … So there’s a big question mark there.”

Maddock said the proposed rule also does not include some of the important state waterbird islands that serve as critical piping plover habitats.

Overall, he said, he was pleased that the rule has been proposed again. He said national seashore habitat clearly meets the criteria for designation.

“The bottom line is that this is a very important area for both migratory and wintering piping plovers,” Maddock said. “And the only reason one would expect for it not to be designated is that there was some kind of political interference in the process.”

A message left for Pete Benjamin with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was not returned Friday.

Mike Murray, the superintendent of Cape Hatteras National Seashore, said he expects the National Park Service Outer Banks Group will have the opportunity to discuss the proposal in more depth.

“We’re still evaluating it,” Murray said . “We’re not exactly sure how it will impact us.”

The park service is in the process of creating an interim strategy management plan for the piping plovers, considered threatened under the Endangered Species Act, and other protected species.

Murray said he is not sure how much say the national seashore has about the designation of the habitat within its borders. Fish and Wildlife and the National Park Service come under the umbrella of the U.S. Department of the Interior.

“My understanding is we would have the chance to comment on it – even though we’re the subject of it,” he said. “But ultimately, it’s Fish and Wildlife’s decision. Whether Fish gives us any more weight, I can’t tell you that.”

The 16-page proposed rule is available for review on the Internet at www.regulations.gov. For further information, contact Pete Benjamin, field supervisor, Raleigh Fish and Wildlife Office: (919) 856-4520. Comments will be accepted until Aug . 11.


Reach Catherine Kozak at (252) 441-1711 or cate.kozak@pilotonline.com.


courtesy of the Virginian Pilot

[NaCl H2O]

This is an excerpt from a US Fish and Wildlife Service recovery plan for the great lakes piping plover.

http://www.fws.gov/panamacity/specie...tgreatakes.pdf

It seems obvious from this that these eggs could be gathered up, hatched, fledged, and released back into the wild in areas that are open to ORVs and kite flyers. It is also obvious that it really is about keeping humans off the beach.



Captive rearing abandoned eggs.

From 1988-1992, in spite of the use of protective fencing, piping plovers continued to abandon nests and fecundity remained low. Beginning in 1992, the USFWS permitted Dr. Francie Cuthbert and her investigators to collect orphaned piping plover chicks and abandoned eggs and to raise them in captivity using previously developed techniques (Powell 1991). These efforts have shown that captive-rearing can successfully produce fledglings from eggs that would otherwise not hatch in the wild and that fledglings reared in captivity exhibit behavior similar to wild counterparts (Powell et al. 1997). In 1998, three of four birds reared in captivity and released in 1997 (total released 1992-1998 =18) were sighted at beaches in Michigan (Wemmer 2000). Two of the three appeared to have paired with wild mates and one of these pairs was observed copulating. While no nests of these pairs were found, observations suggest that at least one adult laid eggs that were destroyed before a nest was located (Stucker et al. 1998). In 1999, one of these captive-reared plovers was documented to reproduce successfully (Stucker and Cuthbert 1999). Similarly, breeding by six captive-reared individuals in the Great Plains was documented between 1997 – 2000 (C. Kruse, biologist, USACE, Yankton, South Dakota, and Robyn Niver, graduate student, University of Wisconsin-Madison, pers. comm.., 2000). Although only 25 of 360 captive-reared piping plovers in the Great Plains were sighted in the years following release, logistical difficulties in monitoring plovers over vast areas likely led to an underestimation of returns (C. Kruse, biologist, USACE, Yankton, South Dakota, pers. comm.., 1999).

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Mr. Price's viewpoint, as published in this weeks CCTimes...


By sharing the beach now, and putting up with this temporary ORV closure, we are all helping to ensure that plovers will be here for our children and grandchildren to enjoy.

ROTFLMAO Our kids and grandkids will really enjoy straining their eyes to see a cotton ball on a toothpick

"Look, Skyler, see the plover chicks?"

"Where, Poppy?"

"Right there, see?"

"Poppy, all I see is sand"

"They're the same color as the sand Skyler. That's how they protect themselves from foxes--isn't that cool?"

"Poppy, this sucks. Can we get an ice cream and go see the aquarium? At least I can see the seals when they do tricks"

[DadBomba]

We just got home from a weekend in P'town. The rangers let you park free with your pass at Race Point, Herring Cove, and High Head (maybe Head of the Meadows.) Coast Guard is open after 6:00 PM. On Saturday afternoon they opened the south access and 0.1 miles of beach at Race Point. After some walking on Saturday morning, Rappin Mikey and I each got three at first light, all keepers up to 20 lbs. We were in a great blitz--just didn't have the legs to chase them more than 1.5 miles. At Nelson's they are complaining that the rain, gas costs, and beach access is killing the merchants.

Rick and Mikey are still there. Mikey's camera is broken, so we won't get the great pictures we saw last year.

[chris L]

yo dad bomba
we dont want to see last years great pictures just this years .

how are them boys doing ?

[Backbeach Jake]

Love him or hate him:
#2 06-18-2006, 07:22 AM
Frank Daignault
Writer, Hunter, Surfcaster Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 10,563

Re: Cape Cod - the end?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are two groups of people, two policy setting philosophies. One, ours, is to permit oversand vehicle use for recreation, in our case fishing. The other group, who I have always called the wine and cheese set, wants to restrict ORVs. This latter group smoozes and mixes socially with ranger high command seemingly plotting to take access away from us in subtle ways, spoon fed in small doses, in order to exact various use forms. The erosion of access is so small, so subtle, that in order to see or measure it, you have to step back and look at what was taken over a long period of time. I have been talking about this in print since my first book came out in 1988. The Park Service knows that it has to be careful not to upset the populace entirely, which is why they remove only the small change of access. As you point out, the bump in the road is kind of a good analogy. I think Ranger high command wants to make beach use as unattractive as possible to reduce use and thus reduce their management challenges. Never forget that these guys in Government service are clock watchers who just want to get their years in as comfortably as possible. As far as selling permits, this is the Federal Government and they have all the money in the world.

Taken from Stripersurf.com. The man knows his ham and eggers.

[Karl F]

Jake, there is an Awful lot more to it than that....
but I cannot type that much.

[jkswimmer]

I think Ranger high command wants to make beach use as unattractive as possible to reduce use and thus reduce their management challenges. Never forget that these guys in Government service are clock watchers who just want to get their years in as comfortably as possible. As far as selling permits, this is the Federal Government and they have all the money in the world.

I THINK THIS IS THEIR REASON FOR THE CLOSERS THEY ARE LAZY

[MAC]

Originally Posted by jkswimmer

I think Ranger high command wants to make beach use as unattractive as possible to reduce use and thus reduce their management challenges. Never forget that these guys in Government service are clock watchers who just want to get their years in as comfortably as possible. As far as selling permits, this is the Federal Government and they have all the money in the world.

I THINK THIS IS THEIR REASON FOR THE CLOSERS THEY ARE LAZY

I wouldn't say lazy. But with no ORV access they could run on shorter man power and all the other things that go with it; less paperwork, fewer vehicles, and basically less responsibility. It would make their life easier, IMHO, if we couldn't use the ORV routes at all.

[Karl F]

If you have time to read a LOT of info, that might put what transpires in the rule making process, and enforcement, go to the mbba website, read the message board posts from the past month or so. Look for ones posted by Peter, or Peter Murray read them, and the links he mentions. Others have posted important info too, and, like here , others have posted a lot of useless drivel... a mix, just like any other message board.

A lot more goes on behind the scenes, in beach management, at the federal, state, and local level, than one thinks.
Read the list of organizations that was involved in the last negotiated rule changes, amazing we are allowed to drive the beach at all, with a stacked deck like that.
However, the rangers make an easy target, for those who are frustrated. That, is a shame.