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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

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Old 11-21-2006, 10:02 AM   #1
spence
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And you wonder why?

Muslims around the world don't trust the USA? Score another point for radicalisim and Osama Bin Laden.

-spence

Quote:
Six Muslim imams removed from U.S. airliner

MINNEAPOLIS - Six Muslim imams were removed from a US Airways flight at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport on Monday and questioned by police for several hours before being released, a leader of the group said.

The six Muslim scholars were returning from a conference in Minneapolis of the North American Imams Federation, said Shahin, president of the group. Five of them were from the Phoenix-Tempe area, while one was from Bakersfield, Calif., he said.

Three of them stood and said their normal evening prayers together on the plane, as 1.7 billion Muslims around the world do every day, Shahin said. He attributed any concerns by passengers or crew to ignorance about Islam.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15824096/
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:09 AM   #2
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You are wacked. Those Muslims should realize that THEIR people killed thousands of Americans by using airplanes. We have teh RIGHT to protect our people. COMMON SENSE ditates they be questioned! Maybe we should behead them or parade their bodies burned and dismembered on tv?
PS, I am sure the fight attendants asked them to sit down and they refused, trying to make the point that their religion is more important than our LAWS. Maybe I'll sacrifice a dog on my front lawn tonight to worshiop myu God, Abugabahbah, if arrested its due to ignorance of my religion.

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Old 11-21-2006, 10:11 AM   #3
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Forgot part of the story Spence??? They CAPTAIN OF THE PLANE asked them to leave and they refused. THEY BROKE THE LAW !!!!!
A passenger initially raised concerns about the group through a note passed to a flight attendant, according to Andrea Rader, a spokeswoman for US Airways. She said police were called after the captain and airport security workers asked the men to leave the plane and the men refused.

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Old 11-21-2006, 11:05 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
You are wacked. Those Muslims should realize that THEIR people killed thousands of Americans by using airplanes.
I love it, so now all of Islam bears the responsibility of a violent few?

You're pretty much calling all Muslims terrorists by attaching responsibility...I'm not sure if this is racist or just stereotypical...

But you've proven my point. If these were Catholics or Jews praying it wouldn't have gotten a second glance...but people are so afraid of Muslims today, because our leadership and mass media have fallen into Bin Laden's trap and beaten the threat into us via 24/7 cable news.

That they refused to leave isn't the point, that clearly non-threatening people were called out simply because of their culture is. Lingering emotion from 9/11 is reasonable, but if it continues to poison our judgement it will inhibit out ability to effectively minimize the threat.

This is the real spectre of terrorism, and why you just gave a few more points to al Qaeda.

-spence
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:15 AM   #5
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So, if you were on that plane with your family and muslims STOOD up and prayed, you'd have NO problem with that?

They should have had more common sense than that, it was purely to prove a point.

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Old 11-21-2006, 11:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by RIJIMMY View Post
So, if you were on that plane with your family and muslims STOOD up and prayed, you'd have NO problem with that?
Think about what you're saying.

-spence
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:27 AM   #7
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So here is one for ya, hypothetical…

One month ago there were violent race riots in downtown Providence. A dozen white people were killed, hundreds wounded by angry black protesters. The riots have died down, but tensions remain high.
You and your family are on a bus going to see Disney on Ice at the DD Center.
4 black men stand up and began chanting “Black Power”. All the passengers on the bus look concerned and the bus drivers tells them to get off the bus and they refuse.
You do the following:

A. Smile and be thankful for the racial diversity in the big city. Thank the 1st amendment for their right to speak their mind.
B. Join and them and shout “Down with the Man!”
C. Ignore them and stare out the window.
D. At the next stop, usher your family quickly off the bus, call or find a police officer and explain the situation to them.


Which is it? D is the correct choice. Otherwise you are a fool or a coward. That is all the people on that plane did and it was the right thing to do.

Are tensions high with Muslims right now? Yup, they should be. All of the terrorsists that have blown up planes in the last 20 years are……muslim.
Should those muslims exercise common sense and know that their actions would be deemed suspicious? Yup.
Would people be concerned if Christians or Jews did the same thing? Nope, why? Priests and Rabbis are not calling for killing people, they are not celebrating when people are killed. Do all Muslims advocate these things? Nope, but some do and when it comes to safety, better safe than sorry.

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Old 11-21-2006, 12:00 PM   #8
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Lets imagine things were turned around. Lets say 4 peaceful Christian white Americans were touring the public transit system (if there is one) somewhere in the Middle East. Maybe Iran, Syria, Afghanistan - you pick the Country.

How long do you think they will be ALLOWED to live? How quickly will their rights be violated? What if one of the four is a woman who is wearing a knee length skirt?

I am not at all worried about the "embarassment" these imams have endured. And this is not a "score" for OBL or "radicalism".

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Old 11-21-2006, 12:27 PM   #9
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How long do you think they will be ALLOWED to live? How quickly will their rights be violated? What if one of the four is a woman who is wearing a knee length skirt?
The question is moot. I don't plan on establishing a baseline for good behavior off those who don't currently share my values for freedom and equal rights.

Let's focus on America and the ethical standards that have made this country what it is. Not that because we're better than them that anything goes.

Quote:
And this is not a "score" for OBL or "radicalism".
It certainly is...the broader, lasting impact of terrorisim is indirect.

-spence
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by spence View Post
The question is moot. I don't plan on establishing a baseline for good behavior off those who don't currently share my values for freedom and equal rights.

-spence
Nazis and KKK members have those rights too in the USA. If they decide to show up at a baptist church picnic or a bar mitzvah, I'm calling the cops.

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Old 11-21-2006, 12:41 PM   #11
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One thing to keep in mind as well is we have no idea what our intelligence community is dealing with at any given time. This incident happened prior to the Minneapolis incident. Both Mid-West metropolitan airports. Those FBI field Offices may be on a high alert. If that is the case (and you and I will never know) stopages of these kinds are not only "ok" with me, they are vital.



Detroit Metro Terror Arrest Update

Ethiopian-born Sisayehiticha Dinssa, arrested at Detroit Metro Airport, is going to stay locked up: Suspicious airline passenger to stay locked up. (Hat tip: Joseph.)

This article has new details about what Dinssa had in his possession, including $80,000 in cash, data about US nuclear power plants, suitcase bomb instructions, a commemorative edition of a newspaper dated September 11, 2002, and a hand-written threatening note.

And perhaps the most appalling thing about the story: a federal judge had to overrule a magistrate’s decision to release him.

A federal judge overturned a lower ruling Monday and ordered detention for a man stopped at Detroit Metropolitan Airport with articles about nuclear plants and suitcase bombs and the anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

U.S. District Judge Paul D. Borman ruled Sisayehiticha Dinssa, 34, was both a flight risk and a danger to the community. He overturned a ruling by U.S. Magistrate Judge R. Steven Whalen, who earlier on Monday ordered Dinssa released under strict supervision.

Dinssa, an Ethiopian-born U.S. citizen who lists his address as Dallas, Texas, was arrested Tuesday at Detroit Metropolitan Airport after arriving from Kenya by way of Amsterdam.

He is charged with currency smuggling after telling Customs agents he was only carrying about $18,000 before a search of his luggage turned up nearly $80,000.

Though he faces no terrorism charges to date, Assistant U.S. Attorney Leonid Feller told Borman that evidence found in Dinssa’s luggage and inside his laptop computer makes him a potential threat to national security.

Agents found articles about nuclear plants, suitcase bombs and a hard-copy commemorative edition of the Dallas Morning News from Sept. 11, 2002 — the one-year anniversary of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, Feller said.

Agents also found a hand-written note saying: “This community is angry. Something is going to happen. We are going to see justice. This is a powder keg waiting to go off.”

The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. ~John Buchan
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:45 PM   #12
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I partly agree with Jimmy on this.... who could know that a group of praying Muslims standing up and disobeying requests by airline personnel was not a prelude to a terrorist act.

but not this statement: All of the terrorsists that have blown up planes in the last 20 years are……muslim.


Tensions are high and rightfully so.

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Old 11-21-2006, 12:48 PM   #13
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please provide the details of non-muslim terrorists that have blown up or used airplanes for a terrorist attack in teh last 20 years?

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
-Wendell Phillips -

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Old 11-21-2006, 01:14 PM   #14
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Spence got what he wanted....

which was to get a reaction from you guys and be provided entertainment for the day. Mohamed Atta probably said his prayers before he took over the plane he hijacked. Atta was smart enough to sit down and pray though.

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Old 11-21-2006, 02:04 PM   #15
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We simply should have treated them the same way they would treat a group of Christians who set up prayer shop at an airport in a Muslim country.
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Old 11-21-2006, 02:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Muslims around the world don't trust the USA? Score another point for radicalisim and Osama Bin Laden.
-spence
I suppose you consider every killed or captured Terrorist by US forces a point for Bin Laden too. Killing those who kill us just makes them want to kill us more, right?

Anyone else get the feeling that those who object most to aggresive security screening and tactics will be the first ones to scream that the Government wasn't aggresive enough in their security tactics and screening when something does happen? And had the Government only listened to them instead of Terrorism experts, Terrorists would love us and we would live in a perfect country and there would be no such thing as Terrorism like it was back in the 90's.
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:33 PM   #17
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:58 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by stripersnipr View Post
They'll be back. They are just getting the liberal stance on the issue from the ACLU website. But these pesky radical Muslims are making it hard to walk in lock-step with the party line....

More on the Six Traveling Imams

See our post this morning on the six imams who were taken off a US Airways flight bound for Phoenix, on their way home from an imams' conference in Minneapolis. Their conduct alarmed passengers, who notified the flight crew, and the decision to remove the imams from the airplane apparently was made by the pilot. The latest is that Omar Shahin, who has acted as the group's spokesman, is calling for a boycott of US Airways. Shahin professes outrage that he and his colleagues were tossed off the flight:

"They have no reason to refuse service to us just because of the way we look," he said "It's terrible. We want America to stay the way it is because we love this country."

The supervisor asked Shahin to leave the ticket counter.

"This is prejudice," he replied. "This is obvious discrimination. No one can argue with this."

"I am calling for a boycott of US Airways because I'm not going to stay silent," said Shahin, who is Jordanian. "I came to this country to enjoy justice and freedom."

At the same time, word is starting to leak out as to what it was that alarmed the passengers:

Pat Hogan, spokesman for the Metropolitan Airports Commission, said that witnesses to Monday's events told police that before the flight that besides praying, the imams were spouting anti-American rhetoric, talking about the war in Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

One of the imams was heard saying that he would do whatever is necessary to fulfill his commitment to the Qur'an, witnesses told police, Hogan said. Other witnesses said some of the imams were repeating "Allah, Allah," he said.

And a couple of the imams asked for seat-belt extensions, even though it did not appear they needed them, Hogan said.

All of this made passengers, the attendants and the pilot uncomfortable, Hogan said.

It doesn't take much Googling, either, to find that Omar Shahin appears to have ties to terrorist-supporting groups. On July 13, 2005, Steven Emerson, Executive Director of the Investigative Project on Terrorism, testified before the Senate Banking Committee on investigations into the funding of terrorist groups. His testimony focused, in part, on an Islamic charity called "KindHearts for Charitable Humanitarian Development." (I have omitted the footnotes to Emerson's testimony.):

There is evidence, however, that KindHearts may possibly be filling the void created by the closure of the Holy Land Foundation (HLF). In early 1994, Hamas leader Musa Abu Marzook, who had given the Holy Land Foundation (HLF) $210,000 in initial funding, decided that the charity would serve as the primary fundraising arm of HAMAS in the US.

The HLF was in operation until the Treasury Department froze its assets in December 2001. KindHearts was incorporated in Toledo, Ohio in 2002, and is registered in a number of other states, including Oklahoma, Nevada, Indiana, Colorado, while awaiting renewal in Pennsylvania.

An assessment of its operations indicates a close business relationship with the
Holy Land Foundation network as well as with other charities that have been designated for being conduits for terrorist financing.

Emerson mentioned Omar Shahin as one of KindHearts' links to terror-supporting organizations:

Other KindHearts representatives have been linked with radical Muslim groups in the U.S. According to a business card produced in April 2004, Omar Shahin, a former Tucson imam, is a KindHearts representative. Shahin served as the Imam at the Islamic Center of Tucson (ICT) for three years until he “left abruptly” in June 2003. The ICT – which has hosted IAP conferences and has an extensive history of terror links – raised thousands for H[oly] L[and] F[oundation] in 2001. In the mid-1980s, the ICT was one of the U.S. satellite offices of the Mektab al Khidmat (MAK) the precursor organization to al-Qaeda. MAK was founded by Wael Julaidan, Osama Bin Ladin, and Sheikh Abdullah Azzam, Bin Ladin’s mentor.

The fact that the Islamic Center of Tuscon hosted IAP conferences--the context suggests that this was during Shahin's tenure, but that isn't entirely clear--deserves elaboration. Here is what Emerson said about IAP, the Islamic Association for Palestine:

The IAP has a long history of links to Middle East terrorism and its financial support. A 2001 INS memo extensively documented IAP’s support for HAMAS and noted that the “facts strongly suggest” that IAP is “part of HAMAS’ propaganda apparatus.” Indicted HAMAS leader Musa Abu Marzook served on the IAP Board of Directors in 1989, and just as he had arranged for the HLF, Marzook provided IAP with funds -- notably $490,000. In August 2002, a federal judge ruled that there was evidence that “the Islamic Association for Palestine has acted in support of HAMAS." And most significantly, in November 2004, a federal magistrate judge held the IAP civilly liable for $156 million in the 1996 shooting of an American citizen by a HAMAS member in the West Bank. Further, in November 2004, an immigration judge labeled IAP a “terrorist organization” and noted its “propensity for violence.”

KindHearts, the charity that Shahin represented in 2004, has now been shut down:

The same day government officials descended on KindHearts, three Toledo-area men were arrested, charged with plotting to carry out terror attacks against U.S. troops in Iraq and other overseas targets. One of them had an additional charge of threatening the life of President George W. Bush. The three – Mohammad Zaki Amawi, Marwan Othman El-Hindi, and Wassim Mazloum – had spent over a year weapons training and trying to acquire and/or build explosives, including suicide belts.

When asked if there were any connection between the closure of KindHearts and the arrests, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales stated that they are “separate investigations, but they're coordinated.” From Amawi’s apartment, authorities seized knives, battle fatigues, computers, and records from KindHearts. KindHearts documents were also found in El-Hindi’s home and in the travel agency he ran in Chicago.

lol....are we not judged by the company we keep???

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Old 11-21-2006, 06:06 PM   #19
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Nope, just tending to family members...

But I'd like to see Bronk's source...and also note that most of it is moot anyway in the context of my initial post. Saying "allah" doesn't make one a terrorist, nor does moving to an open seat on the plane. If the assertion from this quoted piece is that we should assume all Muslims guilty because they just might be...then I'm terrified as to what our country has become.

More later...

-spence
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:08 PM   #20
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And Spence wonders why.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:13 PM   #21
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I promised myself I'd stay out of this DAMN Political Thread forum!!!!

Luckily I will be out of the office for most of the next couple of days with closings. It's like heroin in here.

The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. ~John Buchan
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:26 PM   #22
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Source?

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Old 11-21-2006, 06:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripersnipr View Post
I suppose you consider every killed or captured Terrorist by US forces a point for Bin Laden too. Killing those who kill us just makes them want to kill us more, right?
Nope...killing tens of thousands of civilians while we try to kill a handfull of terrorists makes them want to kill us more.

I'd wager the average Muslim doesn't give a whim about those who are blown away by the US Marines. From a religious perspective the terrorist actions are against the Koran.

-spence
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:29 PM   #24
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Nope, just tending to family members...

But I'd like to see Bronk's source...and also note that most of it is moot anyway in the context of my initial post. Saying "allah" doesn't make one a terrorist, nor does moving to an open seat on the plane. If the assertion from this quoted piece is that we should assume all Muslims guilty because they just might be...then I'm terrified as to what our country has become.

More later...

-spence
I guess the difference is some of us tend to empathize with the Flight Crew, Pilots and Passengers who felt, threatened, uncomfortable and suspicious while some of us tend to empathize with those causing those feelings.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:32 PM   #25
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Nope...killing tens of thousands of civilians while we try to kill a handfull of terrorists makes them want to kill us more.

I'd wager the average Muslim doesn't give a whim about those who are blown away by the US Marines. From a religious perspective the terrorist actions are against the Koran.

-spence
So Terrorism came into existence as a result of Americans murdering tens of thousands of civilians. Thanks for the lesson in revised history.
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:37 PM   #26
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I guess the difference is some of us tend to empathize with the Flight Crew, Pilots and Passengers who felt, threatened, uncomfortable and suspicious while some of us tend to empathize with those causing those feelings.
Sounds like political correctness run amok.

-spence
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:39 PM   #27
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So Terrorism came into existence as a result of Americans murdering tens of thousands of civilians. Thanks for the lesson in revised history.
No, but your line of thinking isn't that far off

The threat is perhaps bigger than you imagine, but you really don't see it...do you?

-spence
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:09 PM   #28
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The latest is that Omar Shahin, who has acted as the group's spokesman, is calling for a boycott of US Airways. Shahin professes outrage that he and his colleagues were tossed off the flight:

"They have no reason to refuse service to us just because of the way we look," he said "It's terrible. We want America to stay the way it is because we love this country."

Let me get this straight, muslims with ties to terrorism are going to boycott US Airways? Sounds like I found my airline for all future flights.

Bravo to the pilot and flight crew. It is about time somebody with some nads stands up and takes a stand against the American left's political correctness. Sounds to me like they made the right call.

I think its pretty clear they want America to stay the way it is because they have free reign to do whatever the heck they want. Allah above America's laws. Anybody mouthing anti-American sentiment and quoting the Koran should get a fist in the mouth from now on.

bluefish Jihadist
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:27 PM   #29
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I think some here forget that simply living as an American is a violation of Islam.That's right folks OUR constitution is in violation of Islam and therefore under Islam all Americans are subject to death.

There is no interpretation,the above paragraph is 100% correct.
Believing otherwise has resulted in tens of thousands of non-muslims dying.The very life YOU enjoy is in 100% violation of Islam and nothing you can say will EVER change a Muslim's mind...always remember that you,your wife/kids are subject to death under Islamic law simply because you are an AMERICAN.

Screw it I'm gonna go off.Organized religion in general sucks.I have no problem saying Roman Catholicism sucks too.How easy to forget the slaughter of the Cathars at Montseguer.Look it up sometime.

Oh hey what about the Armenian genocide.The Turks were real cool then eh?

What about Jews under Egypt?What about round number two under Hitler?

Shall I continue?

When is simply believing in God enough?Why do a bunch of stupid rules like Islam or Catholicism have to be followed?

Isn't it enough to just believe?
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:27 PM   #30
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I am sure you will say this source is suspect, but here is one linking Omar to Bin Laden and Hamas http://www.jihadwatch.org/

Got that on the first page of a google search.

bluefish Jihadist
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