Global Warming does it exist?

[UserRemoved1]

So here's a guy, he's a 77 year old Dr., considered one of the best forecasters of all time. Guy seems to know his stuff. Doesn't buy into global warming and actually thinks the oceans will get COOLER in a few years. This I think would have a MAJOR impact on our way of life, not only from the colder temperature aspect, but from the burning of fossil fuels to stay warm in the winter due to the resulting temperature drops. Guy slams Gore. Ordinarily I'd take that as being maybe one sided but again here's a guy who is tops in his field saying this. He's retired and has nothing to gain out of anything.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070407/D8OBK1DG0.html

Interested in hearing what others think of this view.

[RIROCKHOUND]

The hurricane 'trend' is tough to prove, but I believe there is some credibility to it. As far as cooling: IF you increase melt from the Greenland ice cap, and make the oceans a bit warmer you can slow down the conveyor belt of the Gulf Stream and actually cool Europe and that part of the world. Global warming doesn't mean uniform temp increases across the world. take it or leave it.

[Raven]

we had the most hurricanes ever recorded last year.
If that isn't proof...... what is.

hurricanes are spawned by warm water mixing with cold air
instead of how land storms form ...cold air mixing with warm air.

the glaciers and ice are melting at a rate 8 times faster than normal.

that guy Grey is a crackpot and totally close minded to the facts.
he's no friggan gardener thats for sure.

our weather has become increasingly more extreme.

things like water towers freezing completely solid
first time in our recorded history. thats CHANGE

he refuses to admit that anything has changed??

with global warming comes ice melting and MORE
precipitation..thats why it's raining like mad in JULY.

if he thinks the seasons haven't changed at all
he's so locked up into a stuffy old office he's clueless.

i wanna bitch slap that old fool.

[stripersnipr]

Originally Posted by Raven

we had the most hurricanes ever recorded last year.
If that isn't proof...... what is.

I don't think that is exactly right. 2006 produced a below average number of Hurricanes mainly due to cooler than normal sea temperatures in the Western Atlantic.

[Rob Rockcrawler]

I think global warming is happeneing. In fact i know its happening. But there has always been rises and dips in temperature throughout the history of our world. Is the current warming trend man made or naturally occuring is the question. I think we are helping it along. It pisses me off that people bicker whether global warming is happeneing or not in reguards to changing the way we live through policy changes, etc... We should be trying to clean up the air and the environment in general whether or not global warming is taking place, its just the right thing to do.

ps when i say it pisses me off when people bicker about global warnming, i wasnt refering to this site or the people that already posted. Im talkin about the people of the world that make decisions that effect the world as a whole.

[Skip N]

Originally Posted by Raven

we had the most hurricanes ever recorded last year.
If that isn't proof...... what is.

hurricanes are spawned by warm water mixing with cold air
instead of how land storms form ...cold air mixing with warm air.

the glaciers and ice are melting at a rate 8 times faster than normal.

that guy Grey is a crackpot and totally close minded to the facts.
he's no friggan gardener thats for sure.

our weather has become increasingly more extreme.

things like water towers freezing completely solid
first time in our recorded history. thats CHANGE

he refuses to admit that anything has changed??

with global warming comes ice melting and MORE
precipitation..thats why it's raining like mad in JULY.

if he thinks the seasons haven't changed at all
he's so locked up into a stuffy old office he's clueless.

i wanna bitch slap that old fool.

I guess you're the expert on the subject, and the real expert knows nothing? Ummm ok

[Slipknot]

who knows? maybe the guy is just a contrarian

all those greenhouse gases can't be good for the atmoshere
I wish the rainforests weren't being wiped out as fast as they can burn them

[buckman]

Hold on to your wallets guys. Globel warming, real or not, is going to be used by other countries that are not as fortunate as ours, to bring our economy to a grinding halt. The big scam of "carbon credits" is only the begining. You are going to see enviromentally based taxes on everything the "experts" think is related to global warming

[afterhours]

[QUOTE=Slipknot;

all those greenhouse gases can't be good for the atmoshere
I wish the rainforests weren't being wiped out as fast as they can burn them [/QUOTE]

yup...

[Hooper]

I saw a program where ice core samples were taken from hundreds of feel below the surface. They show that over the last 100K + years the earth has warmed and cooled for various lengths of time. The million dollar question is what effect do we have on this current trend?

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Hooper

I saw a program where ice core samples were taken from hundreds of feel below the surface. They show that over the last 100K + years the earth has warmed and cooled for various lengths of time. The million dollar question is what effect do we have on this current trend?

I saw a few of those shows too. The thing that concerns me is that those cores showed significant ramp up of cycles that before the last century were more consistently spread out.

Hey Rock Doc - you ever do core samples that way ?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Vinnyb:

Probably talking about the 'Hockey Stick' curve produced by Mann et al? see attached. I haven't seen all of Inconvenient yet, so not sure if thats what you meant.

the jist is that it over the last 2000 years or so, the rate and amount of warming is the highest it has been. Conceivably thats human impacts. Another guy (Ruddiman believes you can see human impact back 1000's of years due to changes in forest patters via farming. I'm less than sold on this, but he is a big name in climatology)

Boss-man..
We do sediment cores, not ice-cores. But Alley et al (the ice core guys from Greenland and Antarctica) have data that extend back ~800,000 years that show a warming trend as well.

the Biggest problem with this is that any change over the measured time is less than the annual/decadal/multidecadal noise in the signal. Does that mean I think it isnt happening, no I believe it is reality, but as RRockcrawler pointed out, how much is human and how much is natural... probably the most compelling points is the 'Keeling curve" measured at Mona Loa. Shows a marked increase in CO2 since 1958. If you see there is an annual signal, but the overall trend here is much greater than that noise.

[Smokey14]

Here's another way of looking at it.
If Global warming is occuring because of fossil fuel use and every thing is happening just like Gore and his buddies are saying, can we afford NOT to do something about it. By the time there is undeniable proof it will be to late to save the ocean life (ie striper)

On the other hand if we stop using fossil fuel and it turns out that Global warming was a big hoax at least we will have stopped giving the middle east all are hard earned cash for energy we could make our selves. (ie solar , wind , Biofuels )

[Raven]

it doesn't really matter if global warming is man made or not....
we are still polluting the air with emissions from cars and trucks that are only partially burning their fuel.
The rest is getting re-burned by catalytic converters supposedly, but not all of it!

I remember cruising around in a convertible in San Diego in the month of November in 1970
....and my eyes were totally burnt from the smog at days end.
I'll bet ya their population has doubled since then.

Ironically ....reading/watching the green car bling report on CNN
this morning, that in 1920 they were talking about steam cars
or electric cars way back then and as they said "we've gone full circle".

but speaking about weather in general....who on this board hasn't noticed that
there's a longer season to fish in the fall ... or that winter seems to hang around
longer and longer in spring.
Fish normally found only in southern waters have been venturing to the north on both coasts...
even a manatee swam up here.

the change is evident.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Smokey14

Here's another way of looking at it.
If Global warming is occuring because of fossil fuel use and every thing is happening just like Gore and his buddies are saying, can we afford NOT to do something about it. By the time there is undeniable proof it will be to late to save the ocean life (ie striper)

On the other hand if we stop using fossil fuel and it turns out that Global warming was a big hoax at least we will have stopped giving the middle east all are hard earned cash for energy we could make our selves. (ie solar , wind , Biofuels )

Very good perspective...another angle is if Global Warming is happening and it is primarily due to natural forces (i.e. sunspot activity etc...) as some experts have claimed.

We're still going to see a dramatic impact impact to the global economy that will really strain our quality of life.

The lack of debate is killing planning for this scenario as well.

-spence

[stripersnipr]

Global Warming is hands down, the single most debated subject in the world right now

[spence]

Originally Posted by stripersnipr

Global Warming is hands down, the single most debated subject in the world right now

But only because of alarmists like Gore and other nations pushing international action.

In the US the debate has been slow to take, and mostly silent within our government. Hell, we haven't had a new energy policy since the 1970's! The recent Supreme Court ruling was a very loud crack in the night...

-spence

[Hooper]

Ok, so how many among us are ready to drastically change the way we live today? Ride a bike to work or to do errands around town, get rid of the boat for a kayak, move to a smaller home, replace every lightbulb in the home, etc???

[spence]

Originally Posted by Hooper

Ok, so how many among us are ready to drastically change the way we live today? Ride a bike to work or to do errands around town, get rid of the boat for a kayak, move to a smaller home, replace every lightbulb in the home, etc???

Well, that's the rub isn't it?

It also gets to the fundamental problem, it's not that our lifestyles are evil, but they are extremely wasteful.

Would I be willing to alter my behavior in the short term hoping it might have long term impact? Sure I would...but if it's not serious and coordinated the individual can only do so much...so people think it's not worth the effort.

-spence

[UserRemoved1]

That's a great topic too Hooper and something I've done alot of thinking about. I did the cfl thing last year. We've cut way back on our driving and tried to group things together. Replaced a couple doors to stop heat loss. Sometime when I have some time I would like to sit down and see if I got a little crapcan for running to the shop and back if it would save any money. It's too far and much too hilly to ride a bike which I'd love to do though.

It's interesting to see that roughly 1/3 of the people who have responded to the poll don't think GW exists. And another third aren't sure. That number has been about the same since I started the poll. I wish more people would take the time to respond to this. I find it very interesting to hear people's views on this.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Well...
Like Salty said, there are small things that can help
CFL bulbs in the whole apartment
make sure lights are OFF
shorter showers, less hot water
drive aimlessly less...

some things wont change regardless of oil prices, some will.

I think the societal cost of not preparing for warming is much more expensive than preparing for it.. this is long-term stuff, not short-term...

[Jimbo]

Global Warming or Climate Change as some are calling it now definitely exist, there's really no denying it. Its impact will be debated long into the future. Aside from what were told we can do to ward off the effects, it seems to me that common sense should tell us to follow basic conservation practices where we can, because we can.
Anyway, another person's perspective:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/

[baldwin]

Maybe if we all vote "No", it'll go away.

[Swimmer]

We have in the last forty/fifty/sixty years done many things to improve greenhouse gas emissions. I clearly remember teachers telling us as students in different school classes in the sixties that our planet was getting warmer. However, that and the improvements I have seen probably are not related; such as better economy in cars. Most cars in the sixties were gas guzzlerling 400 horse power sleds. Now only small percentages are (toyotas as opposed to Dodge Hemis). The consumer changed that, and gas prices, not the government. That is unless of course we consider our governments lack of inovation and intervention which contributed to the current state of gas supplies and its cost at the pumps policy change. In regard to all the rest of eternity it will probably be "us" that makes or forces change that rectifies the serious prblems related to carbon emissions. That and taking away some of John Travolta's jet planes.

[Tagger]

joining atoms will save us / not splitting .. They are doing it now , discovery channel showed the facility and the large group of major scientist working on it . We'll be using this in 50 yrs. they said we need wind power and whatever now to hold us over . They heat water to 10 million degrees, same as the surface of the sun then "Look Out " atoms start colliding making energy..Source of power is water thats it .. No radioactive waste,, No pollutants,,No China syndrome..No Terrorist.. can't wait to see it happen

[Raven]

tagger,
what did they use to heat the water?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Tagger: thats fusion (fission is whats done now in nuclear power)
It is the dream of energy. no waste, safe, endless supply etc..

Check out "Hydrogen Economy" for an interesting read...