Cape Wind Farm Approved.

[Jimbo]

Just came up on CNN:
Interior Secretary Ken Salazar approves nation's first offshore wind farm
Battle over the 130 wind turbines has raged for nine years in Cape Cod
The wind farm will cover about 25 square miles of Nantucket Sound
(CNN) -- Interior Secretary Ken Salazar on Wednesday approved the nation's first offshore wind farm, signing off on a project that has split Cape Cod over the last nine years.

The 130 turbines are to be located several miles from the Massachusetts shore in the iconic waters of Nantucket Sound.

"I am approving the Cape Wind project," Salazar told reporters in Boston. "This will be the first of many projects up and down the coast."

[PaulS]

Personally, I'm for it. There may be some areas we shouldn't put wind farms b/c the area is sensitive but not approving it b/c it would spoil the views is crazy.

[JohnnyD]

Good.

[PRBuzz]

Some nice fishing structures.........

I'm glad it wasn't in my backyard since I've already gone solar and renewable (wood)! All for it.

Those views can be fixed with photoshop, can't they?

[likwid]

I hear there's an overpopulation of kittens in Hyannis coming from Bill Koch's butt.

[basenjib123]

to the idiocy of politics. Ancient technology instead of sensible, efficient technology like Nuclear power, etc. Of course the ignorance surrounding Nuclear power is astounding even in this dumbed down society! Windmills ...

[BigFish]

That Blows!!!

Someone had to say it!

[buckman]

It's about friggin time.

[beamie]

Renewable, clean...yes, Cheapest form of power, not even close.

150 years of coal still available in the US. That is the cheapest way to go. Burn it clean and scrub it.

[TheSpecialist]

Not to worry it will now get tied up for years in litigation, you can count on it.

[BigFish]

I was thinking the same thing Bill!

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by beamie

Renewable, clean...yes, Cheapest form of power, not even close.

150 years of coal still available in the US. That is the cheapest way to go. Burn it clean and scrub it.

At current prices of fuel and electricity, reports state that the price of electricity will stay relatively the same yet the wind farm should provide most, if not all of the energy needs for the Cape.

Unless I've misunderstood some of the reports, the price per kW/hr will be negotiated before construction can take place. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

At current prices of fuel and electricity, reports state that the price of electricity will stay relatively the same yet the wind farm should provide most, if not all of the energy needs for the Cape.

Unless I've misunderstood some of the reports, the price per kW/hr will be negotiated before construction can take place. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I read today that they're hoping for 3/4ths of the Cape's electricity to come from the wind farm. That's probably a bit of a stretch, but it's much better than what they get in other areas with the turbines. I'm more interested in hearing how much the cost for delivery is going to be. If they can keep the delivery cost down and lower the cost per kw, I say build more of em'.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

I read today that they're hoping for 3/4ths of the Cape's electricity to come from the wind farm. That's probably a bit of a stretch, but it's much better than what they get in other areas with the turbines. I'm more interested in hearing how much the cost for delivery is going to be. If they can keep the delivery cost down and lower the cost per kw, I say build more of em'.

The world is eventually going to run out of fossil fuels. Many people have a mindset of "we don't need it now, so let's not worry about it." I agree with you, if delivery costs can be kept low enough, build as many of those puppies as possible. I'm sure your number of 3/4ths is accurate (from a "reported to the public" sense, we'll see how it actually pans out), I couldn't find the article I read a few days ago.

Unfortunately for the Kennedy's and the people with shore access on the southern Cape, that area is perfect for this application - offshore, consistent winds, relatively shallow waters.

[beamie]

I'm all for the wind turbines, just think using existing power plants using a US source like gas and coal is cheaper. The initial cost of the project for the amount of electricity produced is big. I think I read each turbine only produces less than 3 MW.

If anyone thinks the price of juice is going down on the cape you have to be kidding.

[Swimmer]

Where the towers are going to be located is right where all the New Bedfordd trawlers crawl back from there trips. I can see the first broken rudder on one of those old scows turning into a huge cluster when the boat drifts into a windmill.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

At current prices of fuel and electricity, reports state that the price of electricity will stay relatively the same yet the wind farm should provide most, if not all of the energy needs for the Cape.

Unless I've misunderstood some of the reports, the price per kW/hr will be negotiated before construction can take place. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

All the reports I have read stated 30 % plus more in costs. In the neighborhood of $.27 per killowatts hour. I think we are in the low to mid teens right now on cost per killowatt hour.

[Mr. Sandman]

Originally Posted by basenjib123

to the idiocy of politics. Ancient technology instead of sensible, efficient technology like Nuclear power, etc. Of course the ignorance surrounding Nuclear power is astounding even in this dumbed down society! Windmills ...

DITTO!

They are in my back yard and frankly I don't care either way. I like the idea of putting them up for fishing structure, (horseshoe shoal is a desert and lets be honest it is not fished that much by comm fishermen...just a few bluefish out there in the rips, I have been there, the added structure would help the fishing IMO.) I don't like the view but are maddened by the outright lies and the promises about the amount of power and the costs. (if it were not for the tax breaks they would be wayyyyy too expensive/kwh) I see the whole think as sort of a student experiment. My attitude is ...go-ahead, do-it, knock-yourself out BTW....I will let you go out there in February and service them

The fundamental problem will all solar related energy is that it is LOW ENERGY DENSITY...this basically means you have to have a lot of high maint equipment spread over a very large area to produce any meaningful amount of power. Moreover what burns me the most is that the advocates are painting this as the "solution" to the energy problems. It is far from it and NEVER will be, it physically can't. They claim the wind farm will provide 70% of the Cape and I's power demands...The cape and I's are a seasonal population for the most part with fairly low population density of summer homes. The energy demands of a city like Boston, NY Chicago, Miami, etc...is mind blowing and this would not even provide a few percent, if that. Will wind farms produce clean energy...yeah but this is way over hyped. The Denmark examples are foolish. Have you seen the way these people live? They have a population of what....RI? LOL! We would have to go back to the stone-age, live in tiny places, headed by a few logs. No AC, No 50" TV's, not gonna happen in the US. Low energy density methods are fine for very low population based regions with intermittent power demands, to think of it powering a major city is outright naive and foolish.

The long term solution to the planets electrical demands is some form of atomic power. You will see next-generation plants that are far more modern than in the past, and eventually the waste issue will be solved. Look, when you see a nuclear sub, that provides enough electrical power 24/7/365 for a small city is compact to fit in a 30'dia hull, and runs for up to 30 years on a "fill up", you will see what I mean. Further, the amount of spent material after the 30 year period amounts to the volume of a golf ball. All this without any gasses to the atmosphere.

Burning anything..(including wood) is not green. Wood burns at low temps and produces a ton to toxic gasses, renewable or not it is disruptive to the environment. Everyone can't burn wood, this is not a solution, imagine if everyone heated thier house or apt. in NYC with wood...forgeaboutit

We need a kick ass power grid and Research money in atomic energy period!

What this administration should be doing is preparing the nation for a massive grid upgrade. I see (after we are all dead and gone), everything electrical, and you will go home and your car will be charged from the power plant...we can't do this now even if we had the cars with advanced batteries because we don't have the utility gird to support everyone charging up a car each day. This where the "stimulus" money should go...build a state of the art power grid and provide research $$$ in the atomic energy fields along with strong incentives (read: real money and tax breaks) for kids that excel in the science fields to pursue this in grad school instead of going into the investment banking world.

We need REAL POWER and A LOT OF IT! windfarms are a toy.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

The Denmark examples are foolish. Have you seen the way these people live? They have a population of what....RI? LOL!

5 1/2 mil.
1 mil short of MA.

And they must live terribly if they only live in a place with the room they NEED to live. I mean c'mon, why doesn't everyONE in the world have a 3 car garage and their house have 3 extra rooms they heat for the hell of it right? LOL!!!!!!

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Using Rush Limbaugh stats again?

[monkfish]

I suppose the canal plant is attractive and ask those in Buzzards bay about it. That Bouchard barge was carrying #6 fuel to the canal plant. Wind power may be ancient technology but so isn't the wheel ,what do you have on your car? Any time we can produce power with onsite fuel it's a win. Wind will never be the sole answer but it will help. And that was crap that it will hurt fishing! There are a hell of a lot more obstacles in Hog Island channel approaching the canal and with a radar all those bouys make it easy just as the windtowers will in the sound.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

DITTO!


We need REAL POWER and A LOT OF IT! windfarms are a toy.

every flat roof in America put solar, even at its current cost and efficiency we could be largely rid of foreign resources for electrical power.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by striperman36

every flat roof in America put solar, even at its current cost and efficiency we could be largely rid of foreign resources for electrical power.

every train car and semi has a flat roof that is going unused for solar too

the problem as i see it is: our manufacturing method to make an automobile body .............right now......
we punch press metal then ad cusion ,insulation and plastic.

car bodies need to be semi transparent so the solar cells can be sandwiched in between -> so they should filter light like prescription sunglasses do (as well as change color) and create their own energy (power) when parked in the sun.

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by striperman36

every flat roof in America put solar, even at its current cost and efficiency we could be largely rid of foreign resources for electrical power.

It is not just the production of eco-energy but the storage of produced electrons to match consumer demand.

I have a solar PV array but the electricity either gets used or wasted as the cost for the batteries were about 2X of the PV array. We need R&D into cheap energy storage technologies, i.e. batteries.

[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by basenjib123

to the idiocy of politics. Ancient technology instead of sensible, efficient technology like Nuclear power, etc. Of course the ignorance surrounding Nuclear power is astounding even in this dumbed down society!

There is still HUGE startup cost to building a nuclear facility and the waste (spent rods) issue from the last 50 yrs has yet to be solved. Attached is from the WSJ:

[Raven]

Originally Posted by PRBuzz

It is not just the production of eco-energy but the storage of produced electrons to match consumer demand.
. We need R&D into cheap energy storage technologies, i.e. batteries.

totally good point....Buzz, battery technology is DISMAL but slowly improving
~
since the base of the wind turbines attracts fish to the "structure"
anyway.........

it should be a dual duty enterprise and additional thought needs to
go into it making it even more inhabitable for marine life just like an artificial reef.
maybe they could be ringed with daisy chains of tires perhaps
~
20 years ago in Wired magazine they talked about a two element wire mesh that would calcify
if a small amount of electric current were
run thru it...and effectively mineralize (my word) seawater into an artificial coral that is super strong.

This technology combined with geodesics is the most incredible idea ....for Ocean Farming
that got buried into oblivion.
that i have ever come across.

[BigFish]

Windfarm is looking better and better by the day right now given the oil rig in the gulf is in day what....43 of leaking non-stop 250,000 barrels per day?!?!!!!!! Rather have the damn wind farm than an off-shore oil rig!!!

[Raven]

that a quart of dirty oil can pollute 1 million gallons of water

so EVEN tho NEBE diminishes the amount thats gushing by saying it
wouldn't keep us running for long blah blah blah (no offense EBEN)

the pollution factor is so much more greater
with Cousteau saying better go see the beauty quick
before it's LOST....

i can just imagine the insanity if all the shoreline rocks of the
canal were covered in black oil .....essentially killing the canal
for fishing... with few ways around to effectively clean it...

take all the roofs of homes and commercial buildings in AMERICA
combined with the surface area of all vehicles and get them
producing electricity and then you can begin to make a dent
in our oil dependency.

[BigFish]

[BigFish]

I only "bumped" this thread because I sick of seeing the word "Fecundity"!!

[Raven]

thank you for that clarification BF