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Old 02-22-2011, 10:58 AM   #1
BasicPatrick
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More Darn Pirates--WTF????

Pirates from the usual area on the Somali coast killed 4 more Americans. When is our President going to order the military to blow the #^&#^&#^&#^& out of the plumbing infrastructure, the electrical infrastructure, the fuel storage infrastructure and every boat on that coast. No more marinas, no more food, no more anything. Blow them back to the stone age. They can't hijack boats from a damn canoe. Enough is enough.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:09 AM   #2
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Is it within the US governments authority to keep people out of unsafe regions of the world?

(CNN) -- Four hostages on board a yacht hijacked by pirates last week were killed by their captors, U.S. Central Command said in a statement Tuesday.
The vessel, named the Quest, was being shadowed by the military after being captured by pirates off the coast of Oman on Friday. Officials had said earlier Tuesday it was less than two days from the Somali coast.
Americans Jean and Scott Adam -- the owners of the ship -- along with Phyllis Macay and Bob Riggle had been traveling with yachts participating in the Blue Water Rally since their departure from Phuket, Thailand, rally organizers said Sunday in a statement on the event's website. The group, which organizes long-distance group cruises, said the Quest broke off on February 15 after leaving Mumbai, India, to take a different route.
As negotiations were ongoing with the pirates for the hostages' release, gunfire was heard at about 1 a.m. ET Tuesday, U.S. Central Command said.
"As (U.S. forces) responded to the gunfire, reaching and boarding the Quest, the forces discovered all four hostages had been shot by their captors," the statement said. "Despite immediate steps to provide life-saving care, all four hostages ultimately died of their wounds."
The pirates engaged the U.S. forces on board, officials said. Two pirates were killed in the skirmish and 13 were captured and detained. Two others were already in U.S. forces custody, the statement said, and the remains of two pirates were found on board. "In total, it is believed 19 pirates were involved in the hijacking" of the vessel, Central Command said.
Forces had been monitoring the Quest for three days, officials said. Four U.S. Navy warships were involved in the response force -- an aircraft carrier, a guided-missile cruiser and two guided-missile destroyers, according to the statement.
A senior military official said on Monday the military was trailing the yacht. U.S. officials have not identified the people on board the ship, but confirmed that four U.S. citizens were involved.
Another U.S. official, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the situation, had said previously that the United States was determining what military assets were in the region and the capabilities of the personnel on board.


The Adams were experienced boaters and started a world sailing tour in 2004, Scott Stolnitz, who said he was a longtime friend of the couple, said previously.
They were very conscious of the threat posed by pirates, Stolnitz said, adding that Scott Adam had said weeks before that he was concerned about pirate activity in the area, a region he had never visited. But, he said, Adam was determined to sail the world himself rather than ship his boat, as some other yacht owners have done.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:19 AM   #3
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We are not Rather... we *should not* be the world's police force. Why should the financial burden be, once again, put on the American taxpayer?

With that said, we need more situations like the one where a SEAL sniper team killed every pirate on the boat. If a US Navy vessel comes across pirates, shoot first and don't bother asking questions. It's like with the illegal border hoppers, there's minimal risk and much to gain. Time to increase that risk by killing every pirate seen and sinking every pirate vessel the Navy comes across - with or without pirates on board.
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:30 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
[STRIKE]With that said, we need more situations like the one where a SEAL sniper team killed every pirate on the boat. If a US Navy vessel comes across pirates, shoot first and don't bother asking questions. It's like with the illegal border hoppers, there's minimal risk and much to gain. Time to increase that risk by killing every pirate seen and sinking every pirate vessel the Navy comes across - with or without pirates on board.
I agree, if you spot someone with an eyepatch, pegleg or a parrot on their shoulder...open fire
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:50 AM   #5
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Very sad.

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We are not Rather... we *should not* be the world's police force. Why should the financial burden be, once again, put on the American taxpayer?

With that said, we need more situations like the one where a SEAL sniper team killed every pirate on the boat. If a US Navy vessel comes across pirates, shoot first and don't bother asking questions. It's like with the illegal border hoppers, there's minimal risk and much to gain. Time to increase that risk by killing every pirate seen and sinking every pirate vessel the Navy comes across - with or without pirates on board.
Our being the guarantor of freedom of navigation, primarily by the US Navy, has been a significant factor in maintaining freedom, commerce, and relative peace on the world's oceans for nearly 70 years. Small pockets of piracy, while a real problem, are still small and we can't be everywhere (afford / resources).

We can't afford to have a 20 billion dollar strike group doing anti-piracy patrols to protect 4 person sailing vessels entering dangerous waters (nor every other commerce vessel). Big Ocean.

Al Queda is working with the pirates, eh?

Perhaps they need a jobs program.

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Old 02-22-2011, 12:24 PM   #6
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They have one. Probably has good benefits too John
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:23 PM   #7
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Looks like one of the special forces guys shanked a pirate. Should of done it to all of them and then fed them to the sharks.Screw wasting tax payers money on a trail. Stick em and toss them over board sharks can smell blood from a long ways away.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:28 PM   #8
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You knowingly go into a region you know has such risk......they should not be surprised when this happens. Blame nobody but the victims. Sad but true...they brought it on themselves!

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Old 02-22-2011, 02:36 PM   #9
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the Iran/Iraq border hikers didn't get a lot of sympathy here ...so I can't imagine yachters handing out bibles in the land of Allah will either...
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:42 PM   #10
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I was going to mention them! Nope! No sympathy here! These "Adventurers" travel this world like they are in the United States of America as they do so.....well....they are not! They are Americans in countries and places where their status does not have any bearing on their safety! Sad but true! If you are told not to put your arm in the chipper/shredder......do you then plunge your arm directly into said machine?? Common sense would tell you NO! So I would attribute their unfortunate plight to a total lack of cogniscent rational thought and common sense! When you play with the Bull....you are gonna get the horns.

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Old 02-22-2011, 05:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
From ARRL Website:

Three Yachtsmen Killed by Somali Pirates were Hams
TAGS: amateur radio operators, us navy
02/22/2011

Four Americans -- including three Amateur Radio operators -- who were being held hostage on their yacht by pirates off the coast of Oman have been killed. Scott Adam, K9ESO, and his wife Jean, KF6RVB, along with Bob Riggle, KE7IIV, and Phylis Macay were on board the S/V Quest when pirates boarded their vessel on Friday, February 18. The Adams were based in the Los Angeles area; Riggle and Macay were from Seattle.

According to the US Central Command, the boat was in the Indian Ocean, headed toward the Somali coast when on Friday, the 58 foot yacht sent a distress signal. The boat was being trailed by US Navy forces; it was about a two day sail from the Somali coast. They had begun tracking the yacht after being alerted that a Danish naval helicopter had seen the Quest off Oman under the pirates’ control. The Central Command oversees US anti-piracy operations in the Indian Ocean.

Officials were in the process of negotiating for the Americans’ release when gunfire was heard around 1 AM (EST) on Tuesday, February 22. “As (US forces) responded to the gunfire, reaching and boarding the Quest, the forces discovered all four hostages had been shot by their captors,” a statement from US Central Command said. “Despite immediate steps to provide life-saving care, all four hostages ultimately died of their wounds.”

There were signs of divisions among the 19 pirates during the hostage standoff, Central Command said. On Monday, two of them came aboard one of the Navy vessels, the USS Sterret, for face-to-face negotiations and did not return to the yacht. The incident turned fatal on Tuesday morning when the pirates fired a rocket-propelled grenade at the Sterret, which missed, and US naval personnel heard gunshots coming from the yacht. At that point, a team of 15 special-operations forces boarded the yacht. On Saturday, President Barack Obama authorized the military to use force in case of an imminent threat to the hostages, said White House spokesman Jay Carney.

After the grenade was fired at the Sterret, several pirates came on deck with their hands raised, as if trying to surrender, said Admiral Mark Fox. The gunfire erupted on board almost immediately. But US officers said it was not known whether the hostages had made an escape attempt or whether disagreements among the pirates prompted the shots. Fox -- the Commander of US Navy’s Fifth Fleet, responsible for naval forces in the Persian Gulf, the Red Sea, the Arabian Sea and the coast off East Africa as far south as Kenya -- said that the incident was the deadliest one he could recall involving US citizens held by pirates. It is believed 19 pirates were involved in the hijacking.

The Navy had been closely monitoring the S/V Quest for about three days, once it became known to be pirated. Four US Navy warships comprised the response force dedicated to recovering the Quest: the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, the guided-missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf and the guided-missile destroyers USS Sterret and USS Bulkeley. The bodies of the four Americans are now on board the Enterprise.

The Adams planned to travel across the Indian Ocean from their temporary dock in Phuket, Thailand, and then head up the Red Sea and through the Mediterranean to the Greek islands. They had considered shipping the boat to avoid the dangers of the trip, but decided instead to join a rally of yachts heading to the same location. For reasons unknown, the foursome apparently decided to break off from the Blue Water Rally, which organized and supported the group of boats headed toward the Mediterranean. Blue Water Rally organizers released a statement on their website, saying that said the Adams chose to take an independent route from Mumbai to Salalah, Oman, and left the rally on February 15. In a statement on February 22 after hearing of the deaths from “the pirate menace which is plaguing the Indian Ocean,” Blue Water Rally called the Adams, Riggle and Macay “brave adventurers.”

A former TV unit production manager, Scott Adam, 70, was an experienced sailor who had owned a boat most of his life. And although 66 year old Jean Adam, a retired dentist, became seasick easily, she took medication for it because she loved being on the water. According to their website, the Adams -- who each have children from previous marriages -- planned to hand out Bibles during their trip. -- Thanks to The Associated Press and US Central Command for some information
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:09 PM   #12
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You knowingly go into a region you know has such risk......they should not be surprised when this happens. Blame nobody but the victims. Sad but true...they brought it on themselves!
No! We should not blame he victims here. They were in international waters. Certainly they might have made a better decision, but /blame them/? I can't go there on this one.

Free nations have always used their navies to protect international waters and they need to step up those activities. This is not a question of the US being the international police...this is directly related to international law and US domestic interests.

Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:42 PM   #13
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No its not!!! 4 people decide to sail into dangerous territory and the US Government and its Taxpayers ie you and me are expected to foot the financial bill to rescue them by having to deploy the US Navy??? I think not! You go hiking in the mountains bordering Iran and you get picked up.......you are on your own!! You go sailing into Pirate infested waters knowing full well the potential risks.....you are on your own! Next thing you are going to want is when these "Thrill Seekers" head out into these situations is we need to send along "Military Chaparons" to escort them safely while they play???? When someone gets themselves stuck on a mountain top and they need to be rescued.....they are sending these "Thrill Seekers" the bill!!!! People need to understand the risks they take when they leave American soil......because they are not in America anymore!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:47 PM   #14
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bigfish is right, they left the fleet and went off on their own, let alone in dangerous waters known for piracy send the Coast Guard
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:04 PM   #15
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Seems there is a misunderstanding here of "international waters" and what the primary purpose of the US Navy is...which is to ensure the safe passage of US flagged vessels in ALL international waters.

Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:12 PM   #16
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bigfish is right, they left the fleet and went off on their own, let alone in dangerous waters known for piracy send the Coast Guard
Well, I didn't say they didn't act stupidly and without caution. My only point is that they had the right to be there and want to make no mistake about the fact that the Somali pirates are the criminals.

I'll add that despite the spectacle of seeing tomahawk missiles flying off the decks of Aegis cruisers and demolishing buildings in Baghdad, a key purpose of the US Navy is not just to conduct warfare but to ensure that international waters are open for both commerce and security.

Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:14 PM   #17
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One more thing...and I can't relocate where I read this...but ran across a legal opinion that now that pirates have murdered US citizens in international waters, that the Navy (and other forces) have been presented with a wider scope of options in dealing with the pirates. I'll watch with interest.

Three-fourths of the Earth's surface is water, and one-fourth is land. It is quite clear that the good Lord intended us to spend triple the amount of time fishing as taking care of the lawn.
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
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One more thing...and I can't relocate where I read this...but ran across a legal opinion that now that pirates have murdered US citizens in international waters, that the Navy (and other forces) have been presented with a wider scope of options in dealing with the pirates. I'll watch with interest.

Here is some interesting notes (lawfare) regarding piracy: EagleSpeak: Somali Pirates Kill American Hostages from Captured Yacht

Still takes a political will to do anything about it - even then, not dropping a few bombs and its over.

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Old 02-23-2011, 08:05 AM   #19
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You knowingly go into a region you know has such risk......they should not be surprised when this happens. Blame nobody but the victims. Sad but true...they brought it on themselves!

Agreed, they knowingly went into harms way.Why risk putting the American military in harms way because of one's ignorance?

It is like the couple water jet skiing in mexican waters on the lake knowing that they would be in danger.

Last edited by Fly Rod; 02-23-2011 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:12 AM   #20
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Cool

as far as SOMALIA is Concerned

I think after 3-5 miles off the coast anyone heading your direction is
up to no good and at the very least you should be able to put a bullet into their engine
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:48 AM   #21
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We'll say the same thing when you fall out of your kayak and need to be rescued. sorry we're not sending the coast guard you didn't need to be out there.

Oh there goes that Bigfish as he floats away we'll

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No its not!!! 4 people decide to sail into dangerous territory and the US Government and its Taxpayers ie you and me are expected to foot the financial bill to rescue them by having to deploy the US Navy??? I think not! You go hiking in the mountains bordering Iran and you get picked up.......you are on your own!! You go sailing into Pirate infested waters knowing full well the potential risks.....you are on your own! Next thing you are going to want is when these "Thrill Seekers" head out into these situations is we need to send along "Military Chaparons" to escort them safely while they play???? When someone gets themselves stuck on a mountain top and they need to be rescued.....they are sending these "Thrill Seekers" the bill!!!! People need to understand the risks they take when they leave American soil......because they are not in America anymore!
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:03 AM   #22
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Not the same thing Scott.....not at all. Tell me there are pirates out there and there is emminent danger I am pretty sure good common sense would prohibit any rational human being from going there! These people were obviously suffering from a case of blind stupidity! We pay taxes for things like the coast guard and harbor masters to do things like rescue people when in danger or need of help. Again these thrill seekers need to understand they are not in America anymore when they leave it!!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:05 AM   #23
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PS- I hear its lovely off the coast of Somalia this time of year....maybe you should take a trip?

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