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Old 03-17-2011, 01:01 PM   #1
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Lybia

US urges UN to approve Libya airstrikes, no-fly zone

The UN vote is scheduled for 6PM ET today, anyone think the B2 bombers are already in the air to disable Gadahfi's air defense systems?

I need spell check, too: Libya

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Old 03-17-2011, 01:52 PM   #2
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Looks like the strategy is moving along well. I think Obama is playing this one perfectly...

-spence
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
Looks like the strategy is moving along well. I think Obama is playing this one perfectly...

-spence
I think Gadahfi has a better strategy: recapture the key strategic areas of the country BEFORE the rest of the world, including the US, gets it act together!

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Old 03-17-2011, 02:07 PM   #4
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I think it's taken some time to 1) build the consensus so there's an Arab face on this action rather than being seen as pure US intervention and 2) let it play out a bit. This deal would also give the Saudi Royal Family some cover as they crack down internally and help in Bahrain...NOTE: Both strategic US allies.

As Iran tries to stir the pot there's the Sunni/Shiite dynamic as well here. Iran would really like the (mostly Shiite) protests in Bahrain to be successful.

And the simple fact of what happened in Egypt will put pressure on even the US allies to reform faster.

Ultimately it's probably in our best interest to let these events push reforms more slowly without destabilizing the region or strengthening Iran.

Considering the complexity and variability of the situation, its actually not looking all that terrible. Obama seems to have been pretty careful to not make statements or promises we can't keep, something very different from Bush.

And if the UN does impose a no fly zone in Lybia, who's going to stand behind the Lybian Govt? The Sudan??? I'm not sure the regime can survive...

-spence
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:34 PM   #5
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why are we getting involved here?
I think we should stay away. All the neighboring countries have armies and air forces, why arent they sending them in?
US should stay out. We have nothing to gain there except get more blame from them for their problems
I know peoples memories are short but a year or so ago we were applauding Ghadafi for his support and now he is a brutal dictator? come on

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Old 03-17-2011, 02:46 PM   #6
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why are we getting involved here?
I think we should stay away. All the neighboring countries have armies and air forces, why arent they sending them in?
US should stay out. We have nothing to gain there except get more blame from them for their problems
I know peoples memories are short but a year or so ago we were applauding Ghadafi for his support and now he is a brutal dictator? come on
I think we're trying to draw a line between the brutal regimes we want to support and the brutal regimes we think are ripe for accelerated reform.

While we don't want to get into a real battle, it does seem like Ghaddafi has crossed the line with his actions...they're going to squeeze him until he pops.

-spence
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
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I think it's taken some time to 1) build the consensus so there's an Arab face on this action rather than being seen as pure US intervention and 2) let it play out a bit.
You're bleeping me? Give it more time. I am not a fan of intervention here (I think maybe Europe steps up on this one and we support that effort). But by the time the admin gets going, this will be all over. If you allow more time for Arab consensus it is long over. The only good new if the Arabs DO IT with an d ARAB face is that at least the Junior Varsity will be going against the Middle School squad. The action windows is nearly closed.

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This deal would also give the Saudi Royal Family some cover as they crack down internally and help in Bahrain...NOTE: Both strategic US allies.
Yes, tough nut to decipher on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spence View Post
As Iran tries to stir the pot there's the Sunni/Shiite dynamic as well here. Iran would really like the (mostly Shiite) protests in Bahrain to be successful.
Speaking of Iran, arming AQ/Taliban now. And reports are going around that a ship bound for Hamas has been intercepted with Anti Ship Missiles (not RPGs) and a Chinese ship was intercepted with WMD components bound for Iran.

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Considering the complexity and variability of the situation, its actually not looking all that terrible. Obama seems to have been pretty careful to not make statements or promises we can't keep, something very different from Bush.
Spencism Alert! Spencism Alert! Spencism Alert!

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And if the UN does impose a no fly zone in Lybia, who's going to stand behind the Lybian Govt? The Sudan??? I'm not sure the regime can survive...

-spence
Well, you could have a repeat of the last two wars in the middle east. No Fly Zones do not occupy territory.

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Old 03-17-2011, 04:59 PM   #8
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You're bleeping me? Give it more time. I am not a fan of intervention here (I think maybe Europe steps up on this one and we support that effort). But by the time the admin gets going, this will be all over. If you allow more time for Arab consensus it is long over. The only good new if the Arabs DO IT with an d ARAB face is that at least the Junior Varsity will be going against the Middle School squad. The action windows is nearly closed.
We'll see how close they really are. Clearly the Admin is not going to go it alone, nor should we. I think the bigger piece is that Khadaffi is now seen as damaged goods by even much of the Arab leadership.

Quote:
Speaking of Iran, arming AQ/Taliban now. And reports are going around that a ship bound for Hamas has been intercepted with Anti Ship Missiles (not RPGs) and a Chinese ship was intercepted with WMD components bound for Iran.
Never seen a report of Iran arming al Qaeda. Sending arms to Palestine is nothing new...

Quote:
Spencism Alert! Spencism Alert! Spencism Alert!
No, it's just a remark. And one I think that's defend-able. Bush would have made some dramatic remarks about standing up for those who seek freedom, the neocons would have had a circle jerk, and then they'd do nothing.

Quote:
Well, you could have a repeat of the last two wars in the middle east. No Fly Zones do not occupy territory.
I think the calculus in Libya might not be in Khadaffi's favor. The real end game may be to get regime ending concessions.

-spence
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:31 PM   #9
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We'll see how close they really are. Clearly the Admin is not going to go it alone, nor should we. I think the bigger piece is that Khadaffi is now seen as damaged goods by even much of the Arab leadership.


Never seen a report of Iran arming al Qaeda. Sending arms to Palestine is nothing new...


No, it's just a remark. And one I think that's defend-able. Bush would have made some dramatic remarks about standing up for those who seek freedom, the neocons would have had a circle jerk, and then they'd do nothing.


I think the calculus in Libya might not be in Khadaffi's favor. The real end game may be to get regime ending concessions.

-spence
Window is closing. Center of gravity was Tripoli, now it is Benghazi. Window. Closing. No time for high end fencing around an issue. Not that I support it...

Quote:
Never seen a report of Iran arming al Qaeda. Sending arms to Palestine is nothing new...
One of several reports but I'll use the NYTimes one: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/wo...st/10iran.html


China-Iran - take your pick (though it is earlier in this news story) Google

Obama when he doesn't do something or pick a side is good while displaying a certain elan and obvious high intelligence lost on the masses, Bush is bad - I get it.

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Old 03-17-2011, 06:04 PM   #10
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It's a go for bombing!
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:12 PM   #11
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labial rejuvenation
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:29 PM   #12
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Arrow

they (daffy) will target the oil field i bet b4 the bombers arrive
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:14 PM   #13
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so O is on TV threatening action against Libya. Not the UN, not the Arabs, us....can someone tell me WHY?

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Old 03-18-2011, 02:51 PM   #14
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so O is on TV threatening action against Libya. Not the UN, not the Arabs, us....can someone tell me WHY?
Well, there seems to be pretty strong support from EU and the other Arab nations.

Justification is because the Libyan government has turned to using the military against their own people without much regard. It looks like they've been bombing and shelling killing just about anyone. I've really some really gruesome stories.

Fear is that atrocities will increase and cause a humanitarian crisis which would destabilize the region, especially considering the events in Tunisia and Egypt right next door.

At least that's the reasoning he gave when he spoke today.

-spence
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:36 PM   #15
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so O is on TV threatening action against Libya. Not the UN, not the Arabs, us....can someone tell me WHY?
it's for the campaign of course !

looking like our fearless leader big and bold

he da man ....photo op city (and sound bite)

a President in control as leader of the world
makes him APPEAR to be more re-electable

in a NUTSHELL
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:39 PM   #16
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Well, there seems to be pretty strong support from EU and the other Arab nations.

Justification is because the Libyan government has turned to using the military against their own people without much regard. It looks like they've been bombing and shelling killing just about anyone. I've really some really gruesome stories.

Fear is that atrocities will increase and cause a humanitarian crisis which would destabilize the region, especially considering the events in Tunisia and Egypt right next door.

At least that's the reasoning he gave when he spoke today.

-spence
Well thankfully he got off the golf course and said something. Now he can send Hillary out in the world to do his bidding.

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Old 03-18-2011, 04:29 PM   #17
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Well thankfully he got off the golf course and said something. Now he can send Hillary out in the world to do his bidding.
Quite thoughtful analysis. And you didn't even have to bring up his Islamic heritage!

-spence
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:50 PM   #18
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he's not golfing -he's in rio for carnivale! what a tool...

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Old 03-19-2011, 08:02 PM   #19
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he's not golfing -he's in rio for carnivale! what a tool...
Carnivale in Rio was over a week ago...tool.
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Old 03-19-2011, 09:28 PM   #20
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Wherever he is/was he gave the OK to launch 110 Tomahawk missiles at Libya!

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Old 03-20-2011, 04:32 AM   #21
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Thumbs up

project
O.D. well under way
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:09 AM   #22
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I am starting to see a pattern here. I think Spence is really Obama.......

At the very least either his press secretary or the head groupie of his fan club


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Old 03-20-2011, 06:51 AM   #23
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I am starting to see a pattern here. I think Spence is really Obama.......
Now that's a compliment

-spence
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:57 AM   #24
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my bad spencey...he's still a $%^%$ tool . how many times has he been on the golf course- close to 50. who's he think he is- tiger woods?

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Old 03-20-2011, 07:05 AM   #25
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my bad spencey...he's still a $%^%$ tool . how many times has he been on the golf course- close to 50. who's he think he is- tiger woods?
How many hours a day do you think he's actively working on average?

12?

14?

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Old 03-20-2011, 07:07 AM   #26
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How many hours a day do you think he's actively working on average?

12?

14?

-spence
since you know all obama, why don't you tell us...

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Old 03-20-2011, 07:31 AM   #27
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My bad he was golfing while Japan was under water. I never said anything about Islamic heritage. I could really give a hoot what his religion is. Doesn't affect my world. I could care less. He was Picking out his brackets while Libya was burning.

None of it matters. Until people decide this country is more important than red or blue we are all going to spin our wheels. As long as people like you Spence sit back on your throne and justify and rationalize moves by politicians based on red or blue we are all screwed.

There is zero accountability in government anymore. There hasn't been for quite a while. Our officials are the new Celebrity and people believe what is put in front of them by Couric, Williams and others.

So enjoy sitting back writing your quippy remarks and feel good about how intelligent your responses are. After all you are debating politics with the people that are affected by them. Not the people that practice them. We are all the real world and we live and die in the confines of what has been laid forth for us and make the best of it.

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Old 03-20-2011, 07:51 AM   #28
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Come on Spence, Obama missed the boat. He should have bombed Libya 2 weeks ago before K(G)hadafi attack his people. This week is too late. Now wait, acually he never should do it. let the arab countries deal with it? I mean, where is his leadership on this? Why does he spend so much time fishing and cutting brush on his range in Texas? Oh yeah, wrong guy. Why is he playing so much golf? There are only 24 hours in the day. The constitution mandates a 30 hour workday. Shouldn't he be working on that cold fusion problem. He has done nothing since he became president. Except all those things that I disagree with, like raise my taxes, but other than that he hasn't done anything.

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Old 03-20-2011, 10:39 AM   #29
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he most certainly did

he brought us change

he says the word every time he's on TV
several times
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:58 AM   #30
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My bad he was golfing while Japan was under water.
Clearly he hates Japanese people.

Sooooo, what's the exit statagy for Lybia? I think he set a date for the troops to withdraw though
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