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Old 09-06-2011, 07:36 PM   #1
basswipe
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Immigration fact.

If you cross the North Korean border illegally, you get 12 yrs. hard labor. If you cross the Afghanistan border illegally, you get shot. Two Americans just got eight years for crossing the Iranian border. If you cross the U. S. border illegally you get a job, a drivers license, food stamps, a place to live, health care, housing & child benefits, education, & a tax free business for 7 yrs.

FACT.

Another reason were going broke.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:53 PM   #2
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:00 PM   #3
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:34 PM   #4
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Iran, Afghanistan, and North Korea are who we should model our country after?

My eyes is goin' crazy!
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:39 PM   #5
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Obama's claim that under his administration, deportation of criminals increased by 70 percent suggests a significant shift in policy, so we decided to check it out.

According to data provided by the Department of Homeland Security, the number of illegal immigrants "removed" rose about 6 percent -- from 369,221 to 392,862 -- between the end of September 2008 (four months before Obama took office) and the end of September 2010. But a much larger percentage of those deported were convicted criminals. In 2008, 31 percent were criminals; but by 2010, the percentage jumped to 50 percent.

The raw number of convicted criminals who were deported went from 114,415 in 2008 to 195,772 in 2010. That's 71 percent. So that squares with Obama's claim.

Data for the first half of the 2011 fiscal year (which began at the end of September) suggests that trend is continuing, with about 52 percent of the deportations involving convicted criminals.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ercent-under-/

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Old 09-07-2011, 03:07 PM   #6
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Nice spin Zimmy but not the full truth...

Illegal alien removals, FY2007-FY2011

Number
% change

FY2007
291,060
-

FY2008
369,221
+ 26.8%

FY2009
389,834
+ 5.6%

FY2010
392,862
+ 0.8%

FY2011 (1st 7 months)
222,312
- 0.8%(a)

a. From same period of the prior FY. Data source: ICE. PDF


To put that in words:

In FY2008 – George W. Bush’s last full fiscal year – deportations rose a whopping 26.8% from the prior year.
In FY2009—the last eight months of which were on Obama’s watch, deportations slowed to a 5.6% growth rate.
In FY2010, deportations fell still further—to a growth of only 0.8%.
In the first seven months of FY2011 (October 2010 through April 2011), deportations are running at 0.8% below the same period of last year.
As things stand now, FY2011 is on course to be the first since FY2002 in which deportations will decline.
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:05 PM   #7
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Iran, Afghanistan, and North Korea are who we should model our country after?
Of course not.Be realistic.
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:16 PM   #8
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removals...?

they come right back in a weeks time

I know.............. i lived there and knew them personally

they used to laugh about how easy it was
and to them it was a great sport outsmarting the Meegra

Seen a whole migrant family walking in the rain in Northboro today
after seeing them out west i definitely know the "look"
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:47 PM   #9
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Iran, Afghanistan, and North Korea are who we should model our country after?
Nope, just go with our current law of legal immigration.

" Choose Life "
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:10 PM   #10
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Nice spin Zimmy but not the full truth...
Huh? Your stats do nothing to refute his point...

By the way, I'd much rather have a policy that dramatically increases deportation of criminals rather than focus on a total number that's a dumb statistic. We have illegal aliens serving in the military, would you be happy if they were deported as well?

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Old 09-07-2011, 08:48 PM   #11
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Huh? Your stats do nothing to refute his point...

We have illegal aliens serving in the military, would you be happy if they were deported as well?

-spence
Of course we are deporting criminals...THEY ARE ILLEGALS

I'm going to guess that we don't have "illegals" in the military. They have gone through some kind of paperwork and process. And I didn't say anything about being happy.

Last edited by buckman; 09-07-2011 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 09-07-2011, 08:55 PM   #12
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Of course we are deporting criminals...THEY ARE ILLEGALS

I'm going to guess that we don't have "illegals" in the military. They have gone through some kind of paperwork and process. And I didn't say anything about being happy.
Wrong on both points.
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
To put that in words:

In FY2008 – George W. Bush’s last full fiscal year – deportations rose a whopping 26.8% from the prior year.
In FY2009—the last eight months of which were on Obama’s watch, deportations slowed to a 5.6% growth rate.
In FY2010, deportations fell still further—to a growth of only 0.8%.
In the first seven months of FY2011 (October 2010 through April 2011), deportations are running at 0.8% below the same period of last year.
As things stand now, FY2011 is on course to be the first since FY2002 in which deportations will decline.
To be true to the numbers, deportations under Obama *have* continued to increase.

A decrease in *growth* is not the same thing as a decrease in actual deportations. A little bit of your own spin in there.
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Old 09-08-2011, 05:25 AM   #14
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To be true to the numbers, deportations under Obama *have* continued to increase.

A decrease in *growth* is not the same thing as a decrease in actual deportations. A little bit of your own spin in there.
I agree but it show's things trending the other way. Clearly not what Zimmy was trying to elude to.

There is a citizenship requirement to serve in the armed forces.

On November 25, 2008, US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates signed a memorandum authorizing the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force to implement a new non-citizen recruiting pilot program for the United States Armed Forces. Titled “Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest” (MAVNI), this pilot program allowed certain non-citizens who are legally present in the United States to join the military and apply immediately for US citizenship without first obtaining lawful permanent residence. But they then apply for citizenship.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basswipe View Post
If you cross the North Korean border illegally, you get 12 yrs. hard labor. If you cross the Afghanistan border illegally, you get shot. Two Americans just got eight years for crossing the Iranian border. If you cross the U. S. border illegally you get a job, a drivers license, food stamps, a place to live, health care, housing & child benefits, education, & a tax free business for 7 yrs.

FACT.

Another reason were going broke.
You left out tax return. The U S hands out 4 billion in tax returns to illegals.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:53 PM   #16
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To be true to the numbers, deportations under Obama *have* continued to increase.

A decrease in *growth* is not the same thing as a decrease in actual deportations. A little bit of your own spin in there.
actually...we've been told for many years now that a decrease in *growth* is exactly the same thing as a decrease in actual (deportations).... or .... ohhh..... say...government benefits and programs...just using the democrats own standards...a decrease in *growth* of deportations is a CUT in deportations....which isn't really a good thing if the rate of "importations" is rising .....
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Old 09-08-2011, 03:03 PM   #17
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Alls (sic) I was trying to say is that the cute Obama pics could have had some other presidents with them. The numbers in the article I posted were department of homeland security #'s. I guess to some people that is spin. Not sure what the source ICE pdf. is in buckmans post. Never mind, found it is Immigrations and Customs.

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Old 09-08-2011, 03:07 PM   #18
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Ok Buckman, call it spin but I clearly stated that it was criminals in that article.

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Old 09-08-2011, 03:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Nice spin To put that in words:

In FY2008 – George W. Bush’s last full fiscal year – deportations rose a whopping 26.8% from the prior year.
In FY2009—the last eight months of which were on Obama’s watch, deportations slowed to a 5.6% growth rate.
In FY2010, deportations fell still further—to a growth of only 0.8%.
In the first seven months of FY2011 (October 2010 through April 2011), deportations are running at 0.8% below the same period of last year.
As things stand now, FY2011 is on course to be the first since FY2002 in which deportations will decline.
So it will be the first time since Jorge Bush's 2nd year in office that deportation rate fell. Great point.

Just to make this clear for everyone, total deportations each year under the Obama adminstration are higher than any time under Bush. The rate at which they are increasing has slowed, but the total number has not. Simply, under Obama administration, higher deportation rate than under Bush.

Last edited by zimmy; 09-08-2011 at 03:15 PM.. Reason: clarify

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Old 09-08-2011, 03:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
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We have illegal aliens serving in the military, would you be happy if they were deported as well?

-spence
Source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmy View Post
...Never mind, found it is Immigrations and Customs.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement

Let me help you with that last part

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Old 09-08-2011, 04:16 PM   #21
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So it will be the first time since Jorge Bush's 2nd year in office that deportation rate fell. Great point.

Just to make this clear for everyone, total deportations each year under the Obama adminstration are higher than any time under Bush. The rate at which they are increasing has slowed, but the total number has not. Simply, under Obama administration, higher deportation rate than under Bush.
It's all good Zimmy. I guess I get a little defensive when it comes to Bush. Any increase is a plus in my book.
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Old 09-08-2011, 05:00 PM   #22
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It's all good Zimmy. I guess I get a little defensive when it comes to Bush. Any increase is a plus in my book.
I am with you on the increase. I got edgy about the spin part, since that really wasn't my intent.

My eyes is goin' crazy!
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Old 09-08-2011, 07:36 PM   #23
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Source?
No idea on the number but I'd think it would be naive to think they aren't serving...

Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

Military Illegals

The real question though, why wouldn't you prioritize an illegal adding value to the country (serving, studying in college, working) behind a criminal?

-spence
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:16 AM   #24
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No idea on the number but I'd think it would be naive to think they aren't serving...

Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

Military Illegals

The real question though, why wouldn't you prioritize an illegal adding value to the country (serving, studying in college, working) behind a criminal?

-spence
An article from 2004 Spence? And one that quotes the subject of the other article from 2003?

And even (way back then) in the article it states that "some" of the people that ended as unknown on the citizenship question may have been illegals.

There probably are some illegals still in today but likely a tiny-tiny percentage.

But thank you for your (non) links as I looked up a bit and ran across this story when searching for something in the past year: Former illegal immigrant follows path to military service

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Old 09-09-2011, 09:29 AM   #25
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The real question though, why wouldn't you prioritize an illegal adding value to the country (serving, studying in college, working) behind a criminal?

-spence
Why would I prioritize someone that violated a law or is here as a result of violating a law?

The real question though is why is OK for some laws to be broken without consequence? Why is it right to pick and chose which ones to ignore?

We can't chose which laws we will not break and which ones we will not look the other way.

If we chose to break a law we have to be prepared for the consequences. When I break the speed limit I must pay a fine when caught. However if I am driving recklessly I may lose my license or go to jail.

If I kill or injure someone - breaking a law - I have a penalty to pay.

When immigrants have come here illegally, they have broken a law.

I don't always like it. But the law is the law.

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Old 09-09-2011, 09:32 AM   #26
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When immigrants have come here illegally, they have broken a law.
I don't always like it. But the law is the law.
1. Close the border. If that means a fence, go for it.
2. What do you do w. the 11 mil? already here? Deport the criminals, but can we really round up and deport 11million?

Bryan

Originally Posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:53 AM   #27
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1. Close the border. If that means a fence, go for it.
2. What do you do w. the 11 mil? already here? Deport the criminals, but can we really round up and deport 11million?
Don't know Brian. What do we do?

Do we continue to ignore it so that the issue goes from 2 million to 4 to 12 million? Or do we wait until it is 16 million or 24 million?

We can't discuss with intent to resolve it because the politicians don't want to discuss something that might jeopardize their re-elections - in the meantime each side panders to their base by only pushing their position - in order to get re-elected.

Do we make a system that would require the only "amnesty" would be those that are willing to go home and apply through the front door?

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Old 09-09-2011, 09:56 AM   #28
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Don't know Brian. What do we do?

Do we continue to ignore it so that the issue goes from 2 million to 4 to 12 million? Or do we wait until it is 16 million or 24 million?

We can't discuss with intent to resolve it because the politicians don't want to discuss something that might jeopardize their re-elections - in the meantime each side panders to their base by only pushing their position - in order to get re-elected.

Do we make a system that would require the only "amnesty" would be those that are willing to go home and apply through the front door?
I'm thinking in terms of number$. What will it cost to find, deport and then let them reapply. Is it even logistically feasible.

Some way of streamlining applying for those already here needs to be developed, with priority given to those who are contributing (military service, getting an education etc..). If you don't qualify (i.e. convicted of a crime) home you go.

Bryan

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Old 09-09-2011, 11:44 AM   #29
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I don't know Brian. Though I am pretty sure that the longer we wait to resolve this issue that it will be both hard and more costly.

Much as most every other major topic that gets booted to a later date.

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Old 09-09-2011, 12:18 PM   #30
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It would be far cheaper to deport them. You can round them up by advertising some free sh$t. Say Obama care!
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