Fugi guide heights

[pbadad]

What link would I find fugi guide heights,. I need to compare K- frames to Bsvlg for a concept set up b/4 ordering guides. Looking for 40, 25, 16 mm. comparism.

[Saltheart]

Try here

Anglers Resource > Home

If you don't find what you want , look up the japanese Fuji site. Its in Japanese but the tables are easy to figure out.

[ReelinRod]

[numbskull]

The 30 and 40 KW also come in a low version that is the same height as the BMNAGs......I think.

[pbadad]

Originally Posted by ReelinRod

Great chart. Printed it and now it's mounted above my wrapping table. Thanks

[pbadad]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The 30 and 40 KW also come in a low version that is the same height as the BMNAGs......I think.

George, haven't yet seen the shorter versions listed yet. I hope they do lower the frames in the larger ones.

[numbskull]

They are available, I'm pretty sure.

If you check this chart it will give you the heights. (the 30L is 49.4, the 40L is 49.7mm high)
Rod Guilds Height Chart
What you really want, though, is a higher 25/20 and 12......so you can build a lighter rod that casts better. Those are supposedly coming as well.

Just a guess, but based on my experience with low riders I suspect a standard surf set up will eventually be a KW 25H-16-12-10runners layout angled down to a choke point about 1/3 the way in from what gets used now by NGC formula layouts.

[Saltheart]

What we really need is a KW-20H. That would be a 20 KW at about 45 mm high. That would immediately become the gathering guide on most (like 90 percent) of all concept builds. think about the onlt real trouble spot in concept builds right now. The KW 20 is too low so you need to go either 30L or 25 in the KW's and these both end up closer to the reel than we might like.. A 45 high 20-KW would be perfect.

Now , that all said , the recent discovery by Fuji that the tilted KW rings actually angle the line flow down towards the blank means that a 25 KW might be OK even though its closer to the reel. this whole tilting of the lineflow do to the tilted KW rings means a lot of gathering guides may be much closer to the reel spool face than has prviously been considered optimal.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

What we really need is a KW-20H. That would be a 20 KW at about 45 mm high. That would immediately become the gathering guide on most (like 90 percent) of all concept builds.l.

This is basically what I've been doing with the LC guides. The 20 is 45mm high and the 16M 35mm (which works well with lower stem reels). I put the guide where it minimizes line slap, then use the angle from the spool spindle to the center of the collector as a guide to place the next two transition guides. It lets me get down to runners much sooner than with the NGC formula and the rods perform well. Perhaps the angle of the K guide will help even more, but the LC guides do a good job already.

[Saltheart]

I don't like LC's but using just one as a gathering guide does not really get into the areas I don't like about them. Even as a gathering guide though I would prefer a KW frame.My desire for a 45mm high KW is to have a 20 ring the same height as the LC20 but in the KW frame.

[pbadad]

Now that I looked @ the Angler resource site and tried their calculations I'm more confuse than before. The blank is an 11' 2-piece equal lengths. The second set up puts all the guides on the tip section. Went back to basics and use 2 different methods for aligning the tansition guides. First way was stringing the line to the center of shaft and tying it off @ 72 to the #10 choker on top of ring. Mind you I'm using a Diawa Emblem 5k with a spool diameter of 2.67" . The layout is as follows: 40L@ 59.7 or the 30K 59.6 (havent decided which one to buy maybe both to testcast) is @31from spool face. The remaining guides KW 25 @ 47.5", KL16( 26.2 works) @ 61"& KT 10 ck @ 72". 5 KT 10 runners to fill the 29.625" space to tip. Since I yet to have the K guides in stock I used the SV for size reference along with a MM ruler.

The next set up is from the top of spool lip to underneath the guide rings to the ckr under ring. This gave me from front of lip a KW40L/KW30 @ 36", KW 25@50.5", KL 16 @ 62" and ckr KT10 @ 72". same measurement to tip w/ 5 runners.
Opinions/suggestions? Thanks

[Saltheart]

I like the sound of the 25 KW at about 47 inches but eliminate the 40L or 30J all together. . Of course this depends on the exact rod. In addition to NGC guide placement guidelines like using the string , you also need to evenly distribute the guides based on the stress test. If its a fast action rod , I like the KW 25 at about 45 based on your testing.

Now for the second listed positions , I like the sound of the KW30 at 36 and then the 25 about 50.

Summary---if you must use a 30 , put it at 36 like the second layout and then the 25 at 50. I would think the 25 at 47 with no 30 would work pretty well but again , all this has to be modified based on the stress test.

Now hat I usually do is figure out a best layout based on the stress test then make slight adjustments in key places to allow the stress test optimized layout to become an NGC type layout. Also remember that the best Concept layouts also take into account spool upsweep , not just spool diamater. Its become a real balancing act but the more you look at all these things the more intuitive it gets.

The Aglersresource GPS allows you to get some pretty good concept layouts using both the reel diameter and seperately including the spool upsweep without actually mounting any guides. I use exponential equations to estimate the spacing based on the rod action (stress test) all this is done on the computer. Then i massage the input from the 3 computer models until the concept and stress test numbers are close or at least acceptable. Then I mount the guides at the calculated spots and then test cast and do the final tweaking. This sounds like a lot but the computer generation of the three layouts , the adjustment of the three inputs to one that satisfies all requirements just takes maybe 20 minutes or so of computer modeling once you get used to doing it and it becomes intuitive as to how to reconcile the three models and make the adjustments to satisfy all as best as possible.

Can you spell Geek?

[pbadad]

I appreciate the time to discuss these options. Personally i like the idea of all the guides on the the tip section and was pleased to see you agree with the KW30 or 25 location. The upsweep angle on the Diawa 5K emblem is around 2 degrees. The computer calculate the measurements for the ckr @ 98" from axle tip. THis is why I used the 27 method. I also do a bulls eye check for guide line up to ckr. Both those set ups shoot perfectly through. I will pick up guides now and start the proces over and work oon the stress testing and then test casting. The blank is a Pac-bay 110M-2. Mod-fast action. I just hope the weather doesn't go down the tubes b/4 i get the set up ready. I will be checking back.

[pbadad]

Originally Posted by pbadad

I appreciate the time to discuss these options. Personally i like the idea of all the guides on the the tip section and was pleased to see you agree with the KW30 or 25 location. The upsweep angle on the Diawa 5K emblem is around 2 degrees. The computer calculate the measurements for the ckr @ 98" from axle tip. THis is why I used the 27 method. I also do a bulls eye check for guide line up to ckr. Both those set ups shoot perfectly through. I will pick up guides now and start the proces over and work oon the stress testing and then test casting. The blank is a Pac-bay 110M-2. Mod-fast action. I just hope the weather doesn't go down the tubes b/4 i get the set up ready. I will be checking back.

Finally received the K frame guides.KW 30, 25, KL16, KT 10 w/5 KT10 runners & MGST12 tip. Did the axle line method to the top of choker guide frame. The KW 30 is 30.5" from extended spool face and the second guide KW25 is 47" from spool. The KL 16 is 61" and choker 72" The remaining runners are 5" apart to tip. ready to cast it but Mother nature killled it today. Stress test looked very good. amazing different load feel with the runners compared to the same rod with COF high frame set up. Lets see how the line reacts when I cast it.

[pbadad]

Tested the 11' pac bay w/ K frames. Guide positions worked well. No bunching and slap. Tested the Century 12' Full Metal Jacket w/ low riders also. very satisfied with the testing. 30 lb fireline and Zee Bass 25. set the LC20 @ 48" from stem spaced the other 6 guides along the blank. This blank is powerful. throw 2-4 plugs at ease. very please when it worked a 3oz canal pencil with ease. Surprised at the results of the distance. over 130 cranks with the 4 oz plug.

[Saltheart]

Glad to hear they are working out. How many yards does 130 cranks translate into?

[pbadad]

mathematically 140yds w/ the Emcast 50lb braid. The Zee Bass w/30 Fireline put the 4oz Ava jig about 20 wraps to the backing. Owner says thought he spooled 200yds. I said maybe but more like 150yds. For his curiousity he's going to measure the line on the reel. He was very anxious if the rod turned out like all the hipe it received.I liked the way it worked a 3.5oz pencil popper. Very easily move the plug w/o a lot of arm movement. working a pencil with 100 + yds between you is no small task with a whippy blank. This blank offered crispness in lure movement complimented from the braid. The rod felt lightweight and balanced even though I had to double wrap the butt and fore because of the smallness in the butt thickness. I figure the double wrap w/ X wrap added approx. 6 oz. Casting for over an hour with various plugs from 1oz to 5 oz. was doable w/o fatigue. The rod complete weighs in at 21.5oz.

[pbadad]

Today went out to test the Pac Bay 11' 2 piece blank. Did 2 layouts different from b/4. Set up both on the tip section w/o any stripper on the butt section. Both sections are equal length. First layout KW25 @ 47" transitioning KL16 & KL12 to #KT10 choker w/ 5 KT10 runners. Casted well except noticed the line slapping the blank in front of guide. Minor slapping. Changed to layout #2. KW30 @ 36" w/Kt25 and KL16 to same choker & runner setup. Casted well also noticed no slap. The 25 would be ideal if the frame was as tall as the KW30. Both set ups stressed well with the second layout utilizing the butt section power. There is a minimal bend in the butt section in compared to the Century FMJ. Now the butt section on that rod is STIFF. Thanks for all your input.