Satellite phone vs SSB radio?

[thefishingfreak]

Heres the regs page 84 covers radio communication
http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/Co...gest-20081.pdf

Wondering about ssb radios but confused by the frequencys and power/ antenna/ backup power requirements.
Is a satellite phone a direct and complete replacement for the SSB radio? If thats the case it seems best to just buy a phone and prepaid plan?
Or even better, this
http://www.wireless.att.com/business...e-brochure.pdf

I understand that other boats won't hear your calls for help as its a direct call to the coast guard.

Any advise? Either affordable SSB radios of the correct power/frequency or recommendations for sat phones / plans.

[likwid]

Call he who shall not be named for an explanation of SSB and signals.

He is a radio guy afterall.

[Raider Ronnie]

What ever happened to #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& anyway ?
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[Raider Ronnie]

Geez
I typed his old screen name and it posted all scrambled like a curse word.
What's up with that ?
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[MakoMike]

Get the sat phone, SSB is a PITA to install. I have one and will be replacing it with a Sat phone. Hint, stay away from globalstar, they have had lots of problems.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

SSB is a PITA to install.

Bonding plate, big antenna, tuner, radio, what exactly is a PITA to install?

But basically due to propagation and not going 300+ miles offshore, SSB really isn't worth it if all you do is go to George's/Canyons etc.

And Globalstar coverage is fine up here.

[thefishingfreak]

So on to my next question what's a good sat phone and are they acceptable substitutes for ssb as far as coast guard commercial regs go?
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[likwid]

For an official verdict I'd just call Boston and see what they say. But I'm *pretty* sure they qualify since basically every offshore reg says they're cool.

I know they can be "letter of the law" with comm regs.

I asked H what insurance would say (she does comm ins) but she would have to look it up.

[Mr. Sandman]

I know the CG will call you up on Sat phones. I know of a fellow used one on several occasionals with the USCG. I think they (the CG) prefer it actually. I would bet that the sat phone exceeds the published regs.

Globalstar had massive problems with satellites and offered fantastic deals for a while because everyone was buying iridium. Iridium phones are the standard. They are very solid. I think but I am not sure that globalstar has fixed a lot of their problems but there reputation was hurt. I am sure they are still offing deals to get you to switch. I was on a boat with a globalstar phone several times and it had no signal for hours at a time. Then when you did get a signal it dropped calls. Most canyon fishermen I know of who had them made the switch to iririum. Again I think they replaced a lot of their equipment but it was a loong time coming and they lost a lot of customers for good.

There are a few other choices. There is a new one called Inmarsat, I don't know anyone who has one but they have a lot of neat features.

If you want to rely on it in an emergency you really need reliability. So make sure that there will be no dropped calls.

The iridium phones that I have used work great, almost like talking on a land line. but the $/min is not exactly free. To bad vonage does not work offshore....Woooh hooo.... woo, woooh whooo...whooo woo


THT site has a few threads on this topic that are worth reading

[big jay]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

So on to my next question what's a good sat phone and are they acceptable substitutes for ssb as far as coast guard commercial regs go?
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They are acceptable to the Coast Guard if you're going way east and they're checking.

[MakoMike]

The regs only require the ability to talk to shore, so yes the Sat phones are an acceptable substitute for SSB. See what Sandy said about Globalstar, everyone I know who had globalstar had big problems, most switched over to Iriidium.

What's a PITA about SSB is the copper ground tape that has to run between the tuner and the grounding plate, it corrodes out fairly rapidly (two seasons) and its a PITA to replace.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

I know the CG will call you up on Sat phones. I know of a fellow used one on several occasionals with the USCG. I think they (the CG) prefer it actually. I would bet that the sat phone exceeds the published regs.

Globalstar had massive problems with satellites and offered fantastic deals for a while because everyone was buying iridium. Iridium phones are the standard. They are very solid. I think but I am not sure that globalstar has fixed a lot of their problems but there reputation was hurt. I am sure they are still offing deals to get you to switch. I was on a boat with a globalstar phone several times and it had no signal for hours at a time. Then when you did get a signal it dropped calls. Most canyon fishermen I know of who had them made the switch to iririum. Again I think they replaced a lot of their equipment but it was a loong time coming and they lost a lot of customers for good.

There are a few other choices. There is a new one called Inmarsat, I don't know anyone who has one but they have a lot of neat features.

If you want to rely on it in an emergency you really need reliability. So make sure that there will be no dropped calls.

The iridium phones that I have used work great, almost like talking on a land line. but the $/min is not exactly free. To bad vonage does not work offshore....Woooh hooo.... woo, woooh whooo...whooo woo


THT site has a few threads on this topic that are worth reading

Inmarsat has been around for quite a while, just not in the lower end market.

You've probably seen these on yachts for the better part of 15 years now

[Mr. Sandman]

your right but their new low end portable phone is recent and has a very attractive price point, some fantastic features and decent plans.

I was seriously looking at it. I think one issue for me was that you had to have a clear line of sight with the horizon and I think you have to be outside when using it. Several people on THT have them and there was a comparison to some of the others. I can't recall but there were some issues. Frankly, as long as it works all the time, and has a reasonable plan or prepaid, then it is fine buy me.

Accessories for all these things (all brands) are expensive. For example if you want a charging cradle with a roof top antenna (so you don't have to stand outside in bad weather to us it) can be very costly. in some cases more than the phone itself

Inmarsat IsatPhone Pro - Deluxe Package

I found this interesting review of the inmarsat
http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/04/..._inmarsat.html

[thefishingfreak]

From what I gathered (hastily) It can take a few minutes to acquire signal from power up. Unacceptable in emergency. So the choice is to get the $1,100.00 cradle/charging station/external antenna and leave it powered up the entire time.
The phones are about $5-600.00 to own, plus either a monthly plan or pay as you go minutes.
You can rent them monthly for about $60.00 start up cost, shipping/insurance and $115.00 a month. That would be fine for the 3-4 months you would actually need it on board.
AT&T has Terastar satellite phone service, but that's only available to corporate accounts and government business.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by thefishingfreak

From what I gathered (hastily) It can take a few minutes to acquire signal from power up. Unacceptable in emergency. So the choice is to get the $1,100.00 cradle/charging station/external antenna and leave it powered up the entire time.
The phones are about $5-600.00 to own, plus either a monthly plan or pay as you go minutes.
You can rent them monthly for about $60.00 start up cost, shipping/insurance and $115.00 a month. That would be fine for the 3-4 months you would actually need it on board.
AT&T has Terastar satellite phone service, but that's only available to corporate accounts and government business.

The power draw on any of them while idle is negligible.
Never been on a boat offshore that turned off the satphone and signal aquisition is maybe 30-45sec normally.

[Mr. Sandman]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION Concerning the Globalstar Satellite Constellation
Two-Way Voice and Duplex Data Services - Temporary Limitations
Globalstar site:

As previously announced, Globalstar first-generation satellites primarily launched between 1999 and 2001 are experiencing an anomaly resulting in degraded performance of the amplifiers for the S-band satellite communications antenna. The anomaly is adversely affecting two-way voice and data services. Customer service continues to be available, but at certain times at any given location it may take longer to establish calls and the duration of calls may be limited. Until the new second-generation Globalstar satellite constellation(see Second Generation Satellite Update below) is operational, Globalstar is offering its customers a web-based Call Times Tool, on its customer Internet sites, which subscribers may use to predict when one or more unaffected satellites will be overhead at any specific geographic location.

This has been going on for YEARS! at least since 2007.

Also, you should know that the SPOT units use globalstar network.


I think they have most of their new sat's up but they still have more scheduled for 2012. (This was suppose to be done several years ago)

[thefishingfreak]

Yeah the place that rents them wont even rent globalstar phones.
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[PRBuzz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

IMPORTANT INFORMATION Concerning the Globalstar Satellite Constellation
Two-Way Voice and Duplex Data Services - Temporary Limitations
Globalstar site:


I think they have most of their new sat's up but they still have more scheduled for 2012. (This was suppose to be done several years ago)

New Globalstar Second Generation Satellite Update
In October of 2010 Globalstar began deployment of its new second-generation satellite constellation designed to restore its industry leading commercial voice and duplex data services.

Three of four scheduled launches of six new second-generation satellites per launch, were successfully conducted in late 2010 and in 2011 with the most recent launch taking place on December 28, 2011. The fourth launch is expected in 2012. All four launches are being conducted by launch services provider Arianespace, using the reliable Soyuz launch vehicle at the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Globalstar plans to integrate the new second-generation satellites with the first-generation satellites that were launched in 2007, to form its new second-generation constellation.

Once the new Globalstar satellites are in operational orbit and the gateway ground stations are activated, the most immediate service improvement will benefit those customers who use the Company's voice and Duplex data services. With each subsequent launch, customers can expect a progressive return to high reliability and service quality.

The new second-generation satellites are designed to support Globalstar's current lineup of mobile satellite telephones, Duplex and Simplex data products and services including the Company's lineup of SPOT retail consumer products.

[big jay]

Globalstar is cheap - there's a guy from block island selling packages on a few of the forums. But as tempting as that may be, you still have to use their call schedule, and can only make calls when a satellite is in range.

Murphy's law being what it is, I wouldn't want that to be my emergency option.

[Team Sanchez]

Recently heard that there is an app that turns iPhone into a satellite phone.
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[Mr. Sandman]

I don't think an ap can transform a cell phone into a satellite phone, completely different technologies. There are wireless connections (bluetooth ?) that will allow using your cell phone as a handset of sorts thru the sat phone. I read something about that too.
Sat phones are not the toy iphones are, you really don't want to be #^&#^&#^&#^&ing with an iphone on a boat in an emergency unless you really have no other means and even then it probably will not work offshore.

[thefishingfreak]

I just called Commercial Fishing vessel safety officer Mr. Plowman from the USCG Northern New England CFVS, commercial fishing vessel safety office.

A Couple things that apply to my individual situation, As a state registered (not documented) Commercial fishing vessel.
As of this moment, As a state registered commercial fishing vessel, I'm not even required to have a radio, at all.
Now as a charter boat I am, but VHF will do for that.

( For Documented Commercial Fishing Vessels) Sat Phones are acceptable 100+ miles. as are 2-27.5 MHZ SSB radios


My other question was about having a 4 man Inflatable buoyant apparatus for 100+ miles (which is legal for me) and then getting caught on the bank with 8 people on board. Not an Issue as far as the regs go because charter boats are not required to have a raft. At all, anywhere.

There is a change to the regs coming soon that will remove the differentiation between state registered and documented Commercial fishing vessels, but He's not sure when it will go into action.

[Typhoon]

We were way east last year and globalstar sucked.

[Mr. Sandman]

8 people out 100 miles on a boat < 60' (bad idea),... with a raft for 4 = real bad judgement, I don't care what the "regs" say. The regs are a minimal list.

[thefishingfreak]

The idea was I would never bring 8 people out 100 miles. So why have an 8 man raft when a 4 man would do. Just because you only have a 4 man raft to Be commercially legal, doesn't mean you cant bring 8 out on a cod charter, that was my point.
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[Mr. Sandman]

I agree. Sorry if I got the wrong body language on that post.

[big jay]

You don't need a raft to charter (which I think is a mistake) and alot of cod boats just carry the 4 man to be legal for giant fishing, but have 8 on board for charters.

My question is always "which 4 get in the raft when it matters?".
Won't catch me offshore on a boat with a sh**t raft.
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[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by big jay

You don't need a raft to charter (which I think is a mistake) and alot of cod boats just carry the 4 man to be legal for giant fishing, but have 8 on board for charters.

][/size]

This is what I have. I'm never more than 20 miles offshore and never take more than 4 people on a charter.

[big jay]

Is that 4 customers + captain/crew= 6 Andrew?

Who gets the short straws in an emergency?
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[Mr. Sandman]

Been playing with my new Sat Phone. I went for the Isatphone Pro. I have had experience with several models of global star and iridiums but never saw an isatphone. The reviews were good and the price and service plans very digestible, so I pulled the trigger

After using all three systems

1) don't waste a nickle on anything global star until they really get their act together and then try before buying. Most of the time you will not have a signal I found it will drop the call often. You really need to log into the internet to see when a sat is coming overhead and time your call accordingly. Not good if you are sinking and need to talk to the USCG

2) Irridium is the best system IMO. It is also the most costly and the service plans are not exactly consumer friendly. But this thing works all the time anyplace. Accessories are very expensive and is is just a basic phone. If you use it a lot and have a fat wallet just get this phone it is the best.

3) IsatphonePro IMO This is a consumer price-point product that will allow the average joe to get a sat phone with a lot of features in a reliable system. The accessories are still expensive but you can get into a basic system for about $600 +/- with an emergency annual service contract for about 375/year (120 min included) and about a buck a min afterward.

I got this for emergency calling (USCG) and for checking in at home when offshore and for calling a fish buyer on my way in. (And occasionally calling another buddy on his sat phone when offshore) That is pretty much it. I don't plan to do much else with it. I got a pelican case for it which is very rugged and waterproof so I can drag it around with me when I go with someone else's boat or just to loan it to a buddy.


My experience is that it does take a few minutes to find itself after you turn it on. You really need to be outside away from trees and buildings. The more clear your position the faster it is ready to call. The isatphone likes to see the horizon so if you have a house right next to you it might not work. The irridum seems less sensitive in this regard and will work more often when next to something but in reality they all need to be in open space with a clear shot of the sky. So boating performance is pretty good but it does not work in my backyard. I had to walk down to the water away from trees for it to find all the sat's.

The voice quality of the isatphone is pretty good but not great. A little tinny and there is a little delay. It is perfectly understandable however. From what I can remember I think the irridum is a little better voice quality but only marginally so.

My hope is that I can get this to work through my pilothouse window, if so, I will mount it inside on a adjustable cradle suctioned to the window and leave it on all the time and plugged in. ( The batteries last a looong time on this phone, far more than any other one I have seen) It also supports Bluetooth and they give you a tiny mni phone you can put in your pocket and connect to the sat phone via bluetooth. So in theory you can leave your phone at the helm in the cradle and make an answer calls on this mini thing. I have not tried it and I have my doubts that it will work but it is suppose to. Time will tell. If it will work...it will save you about 3K in cradles, handsets, and external antennas.
Worst comes to worse you just use the phone itself and stand outside. If is not the ideal situation but at least you have communication to the outside world.

Bottom line is if you plan to really use it alot or cross oceans I would go for the irridum model with all the external accessories and just eat the cost (about 5K+), for the serious rec fisherman, the isatphonepro looks like it will work out OK . I will know for sure in a few weeks/months.

One thing is incoming calls and texts are free. (The poor sap calling you pays out-of-country rates though)