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Old 11-29-2012, 08:04 PM   #1
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Ice Dam Prevention?

Have to replace the fascia board and gutter.......someone mentioned putting ice and water shield behind the gutter covering the soffit to give added protection against possible ice damming? Is this a good idea and or standard practice? All I see there now is felt paper? Just want to do it right while I am there! Any advice would be great! I can see advantages to this.

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:15 PM   #2
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Ice and water should be put down at least under the first course of shingles, a piece maybe 3 ft. wide by the length or width or the house.
at this point I don't see how you could get it under the shingles by more than a few inches, but i guess that's better than nothing.

the whole idea of that stuff is any nail protrusions thru it, seal itself up so when ice melts off the roof, then travels down the roof, it hits the colder eaves areas and freezes, then it can back up and possibly leak. A well insulated house also prevents this, but we had a winter a few years ago where even well insulated houses had ice dams.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:20 PM   #3
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I was thinking about putting up heat tape
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:38 PM   #4
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Ice and water sheild from drip edge up full width of roll any less is a wast of time. Facia should extend about an inch beyond soffit acting as a drip edge. No ice and water sheild on either just the roof. If your not re-roofing it really isn't worth doing unless your comfortable splicing the row of shingles into the existing shingles mid roof to replace the 4'+ of shingles fellt etcetra down to plywood sheathing (ice sheild must adhere directly to the sheathing). you remove to install the ice sheild. I went with better insulation in the attic and installed the ice dam cable. Measure the length and roof overhang so you can check the chart for proper length of cable on the box or web. Frost king
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:47 PM   #5
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I have the requisite ice and water shield under the roof shingles....I am talking behind the gutter covering the soffit? If the felt paper thats there is good enough I will leave well enough alone.

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:14 PM   #6
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I'm confused.... Behind the gutter is the fascia, fastened on a vertical plane to the rafter tails, and usually to the outside edge of the horizontal soffit. No need for paper or ice and water there. Capillary action will take water from roof, to dripedge, into gutter. Caulk where gutter meets fascia.
Are you going with new aluminum gutter? Have gutter company drop ship it. They will cut to length onsite, give you end caps, drops, and hangers. Even hang it for reasonable money. Do not buy sections from a box store...... Go with the PVC trimboard for the fascia. Just be careful below 40 degrees. Nail gun will check out pieces. Better to use SS screws.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:32 PM   #7
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After reading I wasn't clear. I should have said aluminum drip edge on roof is where the ice sheild starts. The facia doesn't have a drip edge but the bottom extends below the soffit acting like a drip edge; meaning any water that does get on the facia should just be free to continue down no paper or ice sheild on the facia.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:20 AM   #8
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I have the requisite ice and water shield under the roof shingles....I am talking behind the gutter covering the soffit? If the felt paper thats there is good enough I will leave well enough alone.

I see why you are confusing Ross

you have felt paper coming down and lapping over your fascia behind your gutter? that sounds to me like you do not have a drip edge there.

anyway, if you have the ice and water shield, what purpose does felt paper do for fascia? drip edge should finish things off.

Is there even a soffit on your house Larry? or just a trim board with no overhanging soffit?

have you had ice dams?
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:20 PM   #9
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Geezz guys I just had all this work done
It all started when I started to paint the house for the 3rd time in 20 year....lol zip ahead . I hired a someone to replace all the edging /corners from the roof down with that new plastic wood. done.
next was to replace rotted fascia with the same material ..done
upnext was the same question as Larry before the seemless gutters are installed . the carpenter was all for installing a 4x4 plastic wood up and under the fascia up to roof line all around my house..
Asked the gutter guy what he thought , he said waste of money with adl install under ,
he stated that ice buildups go up and under your shingles NOT any place else ...
Slip any brownies
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:23 PM   #10
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gutters

ck it out
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:17 PM   #11
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Looks nice, Peter.
Do you find your service wires to be low?
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:51 PM   #12
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Thanks Ross,
Your right about the wires, the pole is not far away and they go downward.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:51 PM   #13
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Yep, got brownies coming next weekend for Hanukkah, you can come too, I think they are just your kind too

Your house looks so nice I didn't recognize it, did you move?
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:20 PM   #14
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it looks nice cause he didn't do it. Send those illegals down to my house.

get one of those roof rakes Lawrence and pull off the bottom couple of feet of snow on roof. That is what I do.


http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publication...ting-ice-dams/

Last edited by ProfessorM; 11-30-2012 at 08:29 PM..

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Old 12-01-2012, 05:30 AM   #15
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Maybe call them eves then Slip? No no problems with ice dams just being proactive is all. There is a drip edge and the roof is not old so it does have the required ice and water shield along the bottom. Thanks for the input....status quo!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:34 AM   #16
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Same house slip
Sold off my portion of the 3 decker crack house in worcester i thought would pay for the kids schooling
Lmao.... Lucky to get out with pennies.
Can you ship them brownies .... Eat them and watch the pats and jets games again ...lol that game was soooo good
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Thanks Ross,
Your right about the wires, the pole is not far away and they go downward.
Nothing you could do about except install a mast on the house or bury them, both costly options...

Bent Rods and Screaming Reels!

Spot NAZI
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #18
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Properly insulated and vented correctly should prevent them also

Bent Rods and Screaming Reels!

Spot NAZI
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:35 PM   #19
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how i did it

when you get a huge ice storm or wet melting snow
it creates ice at the edge which slowly builds up until
it wants to expand backwards>>>
and so does the melt-water
eventually finding a way in....

so, i bit the bullet and bought a 50' section of heating cable
to simply plug in when those conditions prevail so the ice cannot
build up there .....because it will be melted away

it zig zags across the roof and is very simple to install

|\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/|...........()=
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:08 AM   #20
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I know what Larry is talking about and have seen contractors endorse the idea.Instead of starting the bottom of the water shield wher the fascia and roof sheathing meet,you actually fold it over and on to the fascia itself by about 4". This prevents intrusion if you have a backup with the freeze/thaw cycle.I would do this if I had new construction or a renovation.

PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:06 AM   #21
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Thats exactly what I meant Chris thanks!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:41 PM   #22
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so gutter nails, mounts, thru the bitchathane into the fascia? Seems like a decent idea. What is the life span of the stuff being exposed to light and elements?

"A beach is a place where a man can feel he's the only soul in the world that's real"
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:46 PM   #23
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so gutter nails, mounts, thru the bitchathane into the fascia? Seems like a decent idea. What is the life span of the stuff being exposed to light and elements?
not long, 6months to a year before it breaks down,
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:51 PM   #24
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I wouldn't waste your time doing this, if your worried about ice backing up in your gutters you can put the heat cable in your gutters and the downspouts, or don't put the gutters on. take the gutters down in the winter and put them back up in the spring, a properly insulated house and if it's vented correctly won't have ice back up, mine doesn't and i built it in 2001-2002. Houses that have ice back up have heat loss and lack of venting to exhaust all the heat, course a well installed roof always helps.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:12 PM   #25
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I don't think I would put it on the facia, it will eventually have to be repaired or replaced might change the woods ability to breath and who knows what issues down the road. It may be a good idea but I see it as unnecessary. Add the unknown and I would go with proven methods IMHO.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #26
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Not all houses are that efficient,lots of old ones out there. Wood does not need to breathe....I would azek anything I could.Forget the pre primed finger jointed shiznit.

Dripedge goes over the membrane as well as the gutter so there is virtually none exposed to the elements,

PRO CHOICE REPUBLICAN
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:55 PM   #27
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House is getting the full Azek trim treatment w/Hardi-plank siding!! Looks great too!!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:04 PM   #28
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#1 way to prevent ice-damns.....clean,unobstructed gutters and downspouts.Its that simple.

Plan on painting that Azek?Not as simple as you think.

Last edited by basswipe; 12-03-2012 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:23 PM   #29
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Nope....its white!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I know what Larry is talking about and have seen contractors endorse the idea.Instead of starting the bottom of the water shield wher the fascia and roof sheathing meet,you actually fold it over and on to the fascia itself by about 4". This prevents intrusion if you have a backup with the freeze/thaw cycle.I would do this if I had new construction or a renovation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Dangles View Post
Not all houses are that efficient,lots of old ones out there. Wood does not need to breathe....I would azek anything I could.Forget the pre primed finger jointed shiznit.

Dripedge goes over the membrane as well as the gutter so there is virtually none exposed to the elements,
Quote:
Originally Posted by basswipe View Post
#1 way to prevent ice-damns.....clean,unobstructed gutters and downspouts.Its that simple.

Plan on painting that Azek?Not as simple as you think.
I respectfully disagree with some of the above.

Would not put ice and water over and down the fascia. No need and it will break down. Capillary action will take water over dripedge into gutter.
Ice dams form when heat escapes through roof, melting snow which then runs down the heated roof until it gets to the overhang, where the wall ends and the soffit begins. And it begins to refreeze into a dam. All depends on pitch of roof, overhang, and heat loss. I use a roof rake to remove snow from my own roof and still get an occasional dam. And yes, it is properly vented with soffit vents and a ridge vent.
It is New England. Maintenance, upkeep, and paying attention. Many building practices applied to existing home can go a long way towards prevention. I just dont think this use of the ice and water is one of them.
And yes. You will want to paint the trimboard, Azek or not, at some point.
The cables work best with a nearby outdoor outlet that can be turned on with an inside switch. Try to install cables when roof shingles are warm and pliable. Frozen shingles are brittle and prone to break, creating a whole 'nother problem.....
Just my experiences over the years in the trades.
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