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Old 09-16-2014, 10:15 PM   #1
Rockport24
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Question about hanging doors

Question for all you contractor/builders/craftsmen out there: is there any scenario in which a brand new fiberglass door (recently installed in new construction) should leak and it somehow NOT be the fault of the guy that installed it?

My family is having trouble with a contractor that claims its not his fault that the doors are leaking (water is getting in underneath). It is happening on both a regular door and french doors. The same guy built the entire addition (framed it and everything) and hung the doors.

I can't imagine why a brand new door would leak if installed correctly, but I don't know anything, so hopefully you guys can prove me wrong.
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:49 AM   #2
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BS !!
Sounds like he did not set the doors on pans, sure fire way for water to come in
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:18 AM   #3
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What Guppy says . Bottom needs to be flashed correctly
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:30 AM   #4
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Is it coming in under the sill? Or between sill and door? Is sill level? Casing or brickmold installed tight? Is interior floor higher or lower than exterior platform? Easiest solution is probably pull the doors, check flashing/shimming and re install.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:35 AM   #5
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Guppy is right.
I bet he did not make a pan with either lead or ice and water sheild.
If that is not done, then it is very easy for water to be driven in that way.

I would guess the door will have to come back out and installed correctly with a pan.

good luck

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Old 09-17-2014, 08:09 AM   #6
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Tell him if he installed it correctly and the doors are still leaking he needs to get the door representative out there to cover the warranty claim.

Still his problem.
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Old 09-17-2014, 09:10 AM   #7
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Ok thanks guys! Yeah all kinds of issues with this guy, but we are just trying to get it done!
It looks like it's coming in from under the sill, so maybe it's the flashing that isn't correct. Either way, sounds like he did something wrong!
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:39 AM   #8
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Just be sure. We installed a new front door....a friend of mine who is a contractor and I installed it. Everything was done correctly and I noticed water was coming in below the door so I inspected everything and determined the water was running down the side lights and coming in through the bottom pane of glass and running into the house! I called and had a rep come out and I told him exactly where and why the door was leaking and he added some caulking inside but I knew it was still going to leak....and it did! The door gasketing was substandard at best and I told him this! Anyway it leaked again and I called again and he came out and we took the sidelights apart and re-caulked both of them and the leaking stopped! Just be sure of where the leak is coming from is all I am saying. Good luck!

Almost time to get our fish on!!!
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:40 PM   #9
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thanks Larry
It appears to be coming in from under the sill, but I will have to take another look next times it rains..
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:12 PM   #10
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Matt. Put a hose on it
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:30 AM   #11
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There should be a double bead of caulking under the sill.
After dark look for light under the sill from the outside.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:44 AM   #12
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Matt. Put a hose on it
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and a leaf blower. A silly question but have you tried to adjust the threshold? There are plugged screw holes that allow you to move it up and down to close the gap between sill and door gasket.

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Old 09-19-2014, 10:43 AM   #13
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leaks are sooooo much fun.
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Old 09-22-2014, 02:21 PM   #14
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yeah have to put the hose on it and see. We did adjust the threshold and it didn't help. I will check to see if the sill is level. there is calking on the side of the sill but not between the sill and the threshold, so that may be it too...
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:42 AM   #15
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hey guys, put on a hose on it this weekend - water was coming in between the door and the frame, like spraying in the house! Called the distributor and they said since both doors are leaking it's likely not shimmed evenly on all sides. does that make any sense? We're going to have another contractor looks at since this a-hole we had keeps saying "the doors are warped"
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:35 PM   #16
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if the doors are not sealing against the weather stripping good enough, the water can be forced in. How hard did you spray water on them? no more than wind driven rain i assume. Maybe the opening of the frame of the house is racked, i doubt brand new doors are warped, but then again quality control on everything these days has gone way downhill.

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Old 09-30-2014, 12:49 PM   #17
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Ok thanks Slip - yeah just kind of sprayed them gently to simulate rain, but if you turned it up it just came spraying in. That's what it is, not sealed up against the weather stripping..
Extremely unlikely they are warped since this is happening on both french doors and a single front door and were both installed by the same person.
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Old 09-30-2014, 05:57 PM   #18
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From the inside, look at the spacing between the door and the "frame" or what we call the jamb. That space should be uniform on both sides, and along the top. I am gonna bet that is not the case, given what you have described. Hanging a pre hung door, while infinitely easier than replacing just the door slab, still requires attention to detail. There are four planes that must be maintained in regards to being level/plumb/ square. I prefer to screw the jamb versus nailing, as I can make adjustments. One of the last steps is to pull one hinge screw from each hinge and replace it with a "sinker" which is a screw long enough to anchor the hinge into a stud. I use either a 3 or 3 1/2 inch. Very easy to bury those sinkers to the point that it pulls your perfectly hung door out of whack...... The shimming is critical.
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:25 PM   #19
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Have him come back and fix it, at no charge to you. If he does not want to do that, ask him if he is licensed by the state. If he is call the state. There is a fund that license contractors pay into. They will pay you to have it fixed by another contractor if they deem it is contractors fault. Always hire a licensed contractor and insured.

Never ever pull a permit for a contractor in your name, if you do, as the home owner you become the general contractor and all liability is on your shoulders.

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Old 09-30-2014, 07:36 PM   #20
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Check your last statement.... Permits are in the name of the property owner. They designate the contractor or a representative. You don't see contractors listed when permits are printed in the local paper....
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Old 09-30-2014, 08:00 PM   #21
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Yes they R in the property owners name and here where I live the contractor pulls the permit and also signs and will not get a building permit if contractor does not have contractors state license on record with building inspectors office nor workmen's comp. Being in the newspaper has nothing to do with obtaining a building permit unless it involves zoning or set backs etc:. Each phase of contruction has to be signed off by an inspector to continue, normally it is the contractor that calls inspectors, not the home owner


An old carpenters(contractor) trick that is not insured tries to get the homeowner to pull the permit,home owner becomes generel contractor.

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Old 10-01-2014, 09:45 AM   #22
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thanks very much for the advice guys
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:16 PM   #23
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Are they Anderson doors?
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Old 10-14-2014, 12:26 PM   #24
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the saga continues - OK so I had another contractor look at it and he said there is not adequate flashing and it needs to come out and be re done. With all the rain last week, it was apparent that it was coming in from under the sill, not between the door and the weather stripping.

go back to the guy that installed and he says that the flashing was done correctly and it could be a bead of calking that was compromised because of cold weather when it was installed, but that it is highly unlikely. We told him it's definitely coming in from under the sill. Here is a pic: note that the door and that black weather stripping piece are all completely dry, it's clearly coming in under that brown piece..
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:22 PM   #25
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It looks to me like there is not even any pan made of lead or ice and water shield. It should be visible coming up about 3/4" to an inch covering that brown threshold. That is what is supposed to be flashing.
Looks like a pain in the arse to me. sorry you have to go thru that

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Old 10-14-2014, 03:42 PM   #26
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It's clearly missing the pan. It should sit in a flashing pan. They can be maid out of lead (old school) or some manufacturers make them specifically for their doors. It's pretty simple - http://jamsill.com

If it was caulking that froze before it fully cured, it was the wrong type of caulking to have used that time of year, regardless, it was installed wrong and has to come out to be fixed. I doubt the manufacturer will honor warranty if they come out for future issues and the jamb bottoms have rotted out, not to mention you'll never keep paint on the bottom of the jams as they will wick water up which then comes out through the paint when the sun hits it. Even if water wasn't leaking into the house (just getting under the door), eventually it would rot our your sub floor and rim joist and you could have water leaking into a finished basement, or whatever is under the door.

I'd threaten to go after him under MGL 93A. Have one if his signs made up on card board with a big red circle and line through it and put it up in your front yard. DON'T just let him empty tube after tube of caulk until it stops leaking. Good luck.

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Old 10-14-2014, 05:43 PM   #27
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Matt, PM me this POS's name and phone number......and the address of where the door is. Let me give him some "incentive".......
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:01 PM   #28
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the saga continues - OK so I had another contractor look at it and he said there is not adequate flashing and it needs to come out and be re done. With all the rain last week, it was apparent that it was coming in from under the sill, not between the door and the weather stripping.

go back to the guy that installed and he says that the flashing was done correctly and it could be a bead of calking that was compromised because of cold weather when it was installed, but that it is highly unlikely. We told him it's definitely coming in from under the sill. Here is a pic: note that the door and that black weather stripping piece are all completely dry, it's clearly coming in under that brown piece..
Curious, can't tell, is that the finish floor? If it is, it's definitely screwed up and if it's the rough floor, it's still screwed up there's no filler......
My guess is the guy that put that door in wouldn't no a pan ifin it hit him on the head,,, if he has an HIC # at least call the state and lodge a complaint,,, it will cost you more to chase after state money to fix it than paying someone else to fix it,,, sad truth
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:54 PM   #29
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thanks so much guys, PM sent Ross!
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:38 PM   #30
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it's amazing how many doors have been put in without pans and ice an rain an have never leaked. But yet today we need pans an ice an rain underneath the doors. I never do pans just a nice bead of SILICONE underneath the door to seal it from wind or water. Doors are always located underneath a overhang, and those are usually 12 inches or 10 inches wide.
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