Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

     

Left Nav S-B Home Register FAQ Members List S-B on Facebook Arcade WEAX Tides Buoys Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Right Nav

Left Container Right Container
 

Go Back   Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating » Striper Chat - Discuss stuff other than fishing ~ The Scuppers and Political talk » Political Threads

Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 01-14-2015, 02:35 PM   #1
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Obama mocked the GOP idea that drilling for oil would lower gas prices...

When Republicans suggested that fracking would lead to lower gas prices which would help Americans, Obama said this in 2012...

"They were waving their three-point plans for $2-a-gallon gas", Obama told a laughing audience during an energy speech in Washington. "You remember that? Drill, baby, drill. We were going through all that. And none of it was really going to do anything to solve the problem."

Atta boy, Columbo...

The trillion dollar stimulus bill will keep unemployment below 8%.

Obamacare will lower healthcare costs by $2500 a year for the average family

If you like your plan, you will be able to keep it

Drilling won't solve the problem (of high gas prices".

Atta boy, Columbo!!

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/01/2318...paign=Politics
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 02:59 PM   #2
PRBuzz
BuzzLuck
iTrader: (0)
 
PRBuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brockton
Posts: 6,384
Send a message via Skype™ to PRBuzz
Yup gas prices going through the roof! Yesterday in MA 58/106
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	10289905_10204760063034186_5087655210398426070_n.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	43.6 KB
ID:	60448  

Given the diversity of the human species, there is no “normal” human genome sequence. We are all mutants.
PRBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 05:16 PM   #3
Tagger
Hydro Orientated Lures
iTrader: (0)
 
Tagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brockton,Ma
Posts: 8,473
so the GOP is taking credit for lower gas prices now ? All Boners worked on is his golf tan ..

Belcher Goonfoock (retired)
(dob 4-21-07)
Tagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 06:11 PM   #4
Jackbass
Land OF Forgotten Toys
iTrader: (0)
 
Jackbass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Central MA
Posts: 2,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagger View Post
so the GOP is taking credit for lower gas prices now ? All Boners worked on is his golf tan ..
Not sure they are taking credit but I am certain BO is trying to take credit for something he was opposed to 2 years ago. I think opec not slowing production has more to do with it than the drilling. To be honest at current commodity price it should cost even less.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I am the man in the Bassless Chaps
Jackbass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 06:29 PM   #5
JohnR
Certifiable Intertidal Anguiologist
iTrader: (1)
 
JohnR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Somewhere between OOB & west of Watch Hill
Posts: 31,634
Blog Entries: 1
Obama did not have much to do with this. The global economy is slowing down and the Saudis are crushing Russia, VZ, and to a lessor extent, US production.

Obama doesn't have a rational plan on the world stage. And this certainly does not have anything to do with it.

~Fix the Bait~ ~Pogies Forever~

Striped Bass Fishing - All Stripers


Kobayashi Maru Election - there is no way to win.


Apocalypse is Coming:
JohnR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 06:56 PM   #6
buckman
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
buckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 4,834
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagger View Post
so the GOP is taking credit for lower gas prices now ? All Boners worked on is his golf tan ..
Not as good as Obama's golf tan 😀
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
buckman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 07:16 PM   #7
Raider Ronnie
www.blackhullcharters.com
iTrader: (0)
 
Raider Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: On my boat
Posts: 8,921
Send a message via AIM to Raider Ronnie
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckman View Post
Not as good as Obama's golf tan 😀
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device


Careful Steve, thats kind of racist
Raider Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 10:35 PM   #8
Tagger
Hydro Orientated Lures
iTrader: (0)
 
Tagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brockton,Ma
Posts: 8,473
wait ,,, GOP had an Idea ???

Belcher Goonfoock (retired)
(dob 4-21-07)
Tagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2015, 10:37 PM   #9
Tagger
Hydro Orientated Lures
iTrader: (0)
 
Tagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brockton,Ma
Posts: 8,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie View Post
Careful Steve, thats kind of racist
It might be, but I think Boner is actually darker than Obama ..

Belcher Goonfoock (retired)
(dob 4-21-07)
Tagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 06:45 AM   #10
iamskippy
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
iamskippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: A village some where
Posts: 3,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagger View Post
wait ,,, GOP had an Idea ???
You beat me to it.... well done
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
iamskippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:02 AM   #11
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
we were assured not too long ago by the anti-drill baby drill brigade that we would never see low oil prices again due to all sorts of factors that made it impossible....regardless of why it's happening and who gets credit...I imagine "most" Americans appreciate lower oil costs more than they appreciate billions in big government subsidies on Chevy Volts(have you followed the Volt?)
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:02 AM   #12
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR View Post
Obama did not have much to do with this. The global economy is slowing down and the Saudis are crushing Russia, VZ, and to a lessor extent, US production.

Obama doesn't have a rational plan on the world stage. And this certainly does not have anything to do with it.
Many of the factors were out of our hands (global economy, younger folks not as inclined to drive and are moving back to urban areas where they use mass transit). However Pres. Obama has increased the CAFE standards (over the objections of the Repubs.). I'm using less gas bc of the higher milage my car is getting. Had the Pres. not pushed for the higher standards, pushing the car manuf. to increase the average miles/gal. we'd be using more gas. In addition, didn't he get some of the gas guzzlers off the road 6 years ago and wasn't there money for getting old appliances replaced and improving home energy efficiency?

What policies did he propose that have hurt fracking? I don't know of any that either helped or hurt fracking.
PaulS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:12 AM   #13
Nebe
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
Nebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: newpawht
Posts: 19,435
It's bush's fault
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Nebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:17 AM   #14
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Many of the factors were out of our hands (global economy, younger folks not as inclined to drive and are moving back to urban areas where they use mass transit). However Pres. Obama has increased the CAFE standards (over the objections of the Repubs.). I'm using less gas bc of the higher milage my car is getting. Had the Pres. not pushed for the higher standards, pushing the car manuf. to increase the average miles/gal. we'd be using more gas. In addition, didn't he get some of the gas guzzlers off the road 6 years ago?

What policies did he propose that have hurt fracking? I don't know of any that either helped or hurt fracking.

I'm pretty confident in saying that there is no single American who uses more "oil" than O....he may have pushed for all of these things and not "hurt" fracking........

this explains a lot

NY Times : " President Obama has strongly endorsed the new(fracking) production as a boon to the economy and energy security. And the president, under intense criticism of his energy policies from Republicans and oil industry officials as he faces a re-election contest, has recently taken steps to ease government regulation of oil operations."


but none of the vehicles he drives in or flies on adhere to any of these standards and he certainly hasn't curtailed and of his own travel....pretty amusing when you think of it....

classic...

A squadron of 1,700 private jets are rumbling into Davos, Switzerland, this week to discuss global warming and other issues as the annual World Economic Forum gets underway.

The influx of private jets is so great, the Swiss Armed Forces has been forced to open up a military air base for the first time ever to absorb all the super rich flying their private jets into the event, reports Newsweek.

“Decision-makers meeting in Davos must focus on ways to reduce climate risk while building more efficient, cleaner, and lower-carbon economies,” former Mexican president Felipe Calderon told USA Today.

Davos, which has become a playground of sorts for the global elite, is expected to feature at least 40 heads of state and 2,500 top business executives. Former Vice President-turned-carbon billionaire Al Gore and rapper Pharrell Williams will be there as well; each plans to discuss global warming and recycling respectively.
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:26 AM   #15
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,669
I forgot tax credits for electric/hybrid cars which also lowered demand for oil.
PaulS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:28 AM   #16
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagger View Post
wait ,,, GOP had an Idea ???
So instead of listening to what conservatives are actually saying, I presume you let MSNBC tell you what we are saying?

We do have a few ideas...
  • Sanctity and preciousness of all human life
  • Individual liberty
  • Individual responsibility
  • Letting our free market (the greatest provider of upward economic mobility in the history of human existence) do it's thing, subject to reasonable regulations
  • Strong national defense
  • Fiscal responsibility
  • Charity to
our neighbors

That's our platform. I'm curious to know what you find objectionable or so lacking that you think we have no ideas. I'm all ears...
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:37 AM   #17
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
I forgot tax credits for electric/hybrid cars which also lowered demand for oil.
Average income for a person whu buys a Chevy Volt...wait for it...$170k a year. Why, exactly, do we need to give these people tax breaks, at the expense of everyone else? I thought Obama said that it was conservatives who want to give tax cuts to the rich, because of racisthatecrimeintolerant...

If its hybrid cars that are driving down the price of oil, why now? Hybrids have been around for quite a while now, no?

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/o...-buyers/72585/
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:42 AM   #18
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Had the Pres. not pushed for the higher standards, pushing the car manuf. to increase the average miles/gal. we'd be using more gas. In addition, didn't he get some of the gas guzzlers off the road 6 years ago and wasn't there money for getting old appliances replaced and improving home energy efficiency?

What policies did he propose that have hurt fracking? I don't know of any that either helped or hurt fracking.
"Had the Pres. not pushed for the higher standards, pushing the car manuf. to increase the average miles/gal. we'd be using more gas."

Talking about what he did back in 2009? Increasing mpg by 5% a year until 2016? yes, that cannot fail to reduce demand. I haven't heard many people speculate that this is causing the drop in gas prices, but there's no way to prove it.

"What policies did he propose that have hurt fracking? "

I don' think he did anyhting to hurt it, because he didn't have the authority to. He, and the Democrats in general, have done much to limit the exploitation of oil and NG on federal lands. Do you really deny that?
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:43 AM   #19
scottw
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
scottw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Average income for a person whu buys a Chevy Volt...wait for it...$170k a year. Why, exactly, do we need to give these people tax breaks, at the expense of everyone else? I thought Obama said that it was conservatives who want to give tax cuts to the rich, because of racisthatecrimeintolerant...

If its hybrid cars that are driving down the price of oil, why now? Hybrids have been around for quite a while now, no?

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/o...-buyers/72585/
right..."tax credits for the rich" if roles were reversed....

the credits were not intended to reduce demand or oil prices, they were intended as an answer to "necessarily higher" energy prices ( and to prop up GM)
scottw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:49 AM   #20
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottw View Post
right..."tax credits for the rich" if roles were reversed....

the credits were not intended to reduce demand or oil prices, they were intended as an answer to "necessarily higher" energy prices ( and to prop up GM)
I presume that as more Americans drive more fuel-efficient cars, that will reduce our demand. But I'd also assume that our decreased demand is more than offset by increased demand in emerging economies like China and India. Is world demand for oil significantly lower than it was a few years ago?

And even though the credits weren't "intended" to lower prices, we can chalk that up to a fringe benefit of Obama's briliance.

Last edited by Jim in CT; 01-21-2015 at 09:01 AM..
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:51 AM   #21
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
"Had the Pres. not pushed for the higher standards, pushing the car manuf. to increase the average miles/gal. we'd be using more gas."

Talking about what he did back in 2009? Increasing mpg by 5% a year until 2016? Yes, the higher standards kick in over timeyes, that cannot fail to reduce demand. I haven't heard many people speculate that this is causing the drop in gas prices, but there's no way to prove it.Prob. not a large amount.

"What policies did he propose that have hurt fracking? "

I don' think he did anyhting to hurt it, because he didn't have the authority to. He, and the Democrats in general, have done much to limit the exploitation of oil and NG on federal lands. Do you really deny that?
Yes, agreed.

Anything any Pres does or doesn't do really only has a limited impact on gas prices. Demand from China prob. has the biggest impact on incr. prices from a few years ago and the current decr. prices.

Last edited by PaulS; 01-21-2015 at 08:58 AM..
PaulS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:55 AM   #22
iamskippy
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
iamskippy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: A village some where
Posts: 3,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebe View Post
It's bush's fault
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
I was thinking Al Gore
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
iamskippy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 08:58 AM   #23
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Average income for a person whu buys a Chevy Volt...wait for it...$170k a year. Why, exactly, do we need to give these people tax breaks, at the expense of everyone else? I thought Obama said that it was conservatives who want to give tax cuts to the rich, because of racisthatecrimeintolerant...

If its hybrid cars that are driving down the price of oil, why now? Hybrids have been around for quite a while now, no?

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/o...-buyers/72585/
Far more on the road now than in the past. And you and I will prob. drive either an all electric or a hybrid b/f we die.

The tax breaks were put in to help an industry get started. It has helped drive down the prices of hybrids/electric cars. Once an industry can stand on its own, tax breaks should be reduced. That is the arguement people make w/the oil & gas industry.
PaulS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 09:15 AM   #24
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
Far more on the road now than in the past. And you and I will prob. drive either an all electric or a hybrid b/f we die.

The tax breaks were put in to help an industry get started. It has helped drive down the prices of hybrids/electric cars. Once an industry can stand on its own, tax breaks should be reduced. That is the arguement people make w/the oil & gas industry.
In principle, I agree that the tax breaks were given to the oil industry too. But everyone benefitted from that. With tax breaks on electric cars, the beneficiaries (so far) are rich tree-huggers who pay the insane premium for these cars, and the unionized auto workers who make them. Remind me again, which party to both of these groups overwhelmingly vote for?

And again, Paul...given that it's irrefutable fact that these tax incentives disproportionately benefitted the wealthy, isn't it dishonest for Obama to claim that conservatives are the ones that want to give tax breaks to the rich? Isn't that intellectually dishonest?

Good exchange...
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 09:46 AM   #25
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
In principle, I agree that the tax breaks were given to the oil industry too. But everyone benefitted from that. With tax breaks on electric cars, the beneficiaries (so far) are rich tree-huggers who pay the insane premium for these cars, and the unionized auto workers who make them. Remind me again, which party to both of these groups overwhelmingly vote for?).

And again, Paul...given that it's irrefutable fact that these tax incentives disproportionately benefitted the wealthy, isn't it dishonest for Obama to claim that conservatives are the ones that want to give tax breaks to the rich? Isn't that intellectually dishonest?

Good exchange...
The point in that the price is/has been coming down and eventually we'll all prob. drive hybrids or totally electric cars (or some other technology). So it will benefit all of us and hopefully will be a small part in breaking the back of OPEC.
PaulS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 09:48 AM   #26
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,669
Today's paper

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/bu...ll.html?ref=us

Behind Drop in Oil Prices, Washington’s Hand
JAN. 20, 2015

The New York Times
Eduardo Porter
Did the United States kill OPEC?
The plummeting price of oil since Saudi Arabia decided last fall not to cut production to counter rising supply elsewhere has fueled intense speculation about a downfall of the infamous cartel, once feared for its power to bend oil prices to its will.
Was OPEC’s biggest oil producer unwilling or just unable to stop an emerging glut? Does this mean oil will never again reach $100 a barrel — where the spendthrift governments of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries need it to be?
What’s missing from the discussion is an understanding of how the oil market got to this juncture and, notably, who brought it here.
The answer is surprising. It was the United States, mostly. Last year, the United States produced more oil than it had in 25 years, surpassing Saudi Arabia as the world’s largest producer.
Perhaps the most intriguing part of this story is that one of the main participants in this revolution is the American government.
Facing fears of a broad energy shortage, in the shadow of an embargo by Arab oil producers, the Nixon administration and Congress laid the foundation of an industrial policy that over the span of four decades developed the technologies needed to unleash American shale oil and natural gas onto world markets.

Environmentalists against any government involvement in the fossil fuels business will hate this, of course. But the collaboration between government and business in pursuit of energy independence offers a valuable lesson for policy makers forging a strategy to fit the current energy imperative: reducing carbon emissions to combat climate change.
Many have remarked that the Arab oil embargo of 1973 weakened OPEC’s hold over the oil market by encouraging non-OPEC supply — from places like Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, which came to market through a pipeline approved by Congress just weeks after the embargo. The embargo also encouraged development of nuclear energy and coal-fueled power. It prompted Congress to pass fuel economy standards.

By contrast, little has been said about the role the United States government played in developing new energy technologies. And yet for all the criticism aimed at the Obama administration’s efforts to address long-term energy challenges — and the derision over its failed investments in companies like Solyndra — the government’s most useful role might indeed be to support research and ventures that could deliver a low-carbon future.
“If there is one key lesson from the shale revolution, it is that public investments in technology innovation can bring a huge benefit for both the economy and the environment,” said Michael Shellenberger, the president of the Breakthrough Institute, an advocacy group for sustainable development, in Oakland, Calif.
The Breakthrough Institute has done the most thorough investigation I’ve seen of how three decades of government subsidies for research, demonstration and production helped bring about the revolution.
Interest in shale deposits was driven by a search for gas, not oil.
But the oil embargo gave them a big boost. Congress passed the Energy Reorganization Act of 1974, creating the Energy Research and Development Administration — which would soon become the Department of Energy.
This kick-started a period of heavy government investment in research and development to recover gas from shale. The agency provided funds for “directionally deviated” drilling, a precursor to the horizontal drilling used today. It subsidized the development of polycrystalline diamond compact bits to cut through the shale. It performed the first big hydraulic fracturing. Energy Department labs created a multi-well fracking test site.
Research at the Sandia National Laboratories into underground imaging — based on microseismic monitoring once used to detect coal mine collapses — was critical to map fractures and position wells.
George Mitchell, the shale fracking pioneer, got help from the government, including in the deployment of a horizontal well and microseismic mapping.
The government did not always get it right. In fact, research into fracking initially took a back seat to efforts to produce “synthetic fuels” from things like “oil shales” — which to date have delivered little in terms of cost-effective energy.
The government could also stand in the way. Price regulation was a significant barrier to investment into “unconventional” gas deposits until it was freed during the Reagan administration.
Of course, the government assistance would have come to nothing without private entrepreneurs who took risks and followed market signals. Fracking was mostly reserved for gas until gas prices started falling a few years ago, shifting producers’ efforts to oil, which could be exploited using similar technologies.
Yet Washington played a critical part in the story that led to oil’s recent fall.
According to Jim Hamilton, an energy economist at the University of California, San Diego, the world’s real income increased by nearly 28 percent from 2005 to 2013. To keep oil prices stable, supply would have had to increase by over 19 percent. But field production of crude increased by only 3.1 percent.
Supply was kept in check, in part, by unforeseen events: wars across the Middle East, attacks on oil infrastructure in Nigeria, sanctions on Iran. But OPEC’s big producers, like Saudi Arabia, did not increase production, either. Excepting the momentary swoon after the financial crisis of 2008, flat output from the cartel kept prices on the rise for more than a decade.
What brought the arrangement crashing down was American shale oil.
By 2013, the United States was already producing 3.5 million barrels of shale oil. Given the new American supply, high prices could simply not hold. “It was not feasible for the Saudis to defend $100 a barrel,” Professor Hamilton said. “It was a losing strategy. Fracking would have taken more of the market.”
A price of $45 a barrel does not portend a great future for American shale oil, which is comparatively expensive to produce. As investment in new shale production dwindles, oil prices are likely to recover.
But even if a bunch of shale producers are driven out of business, the industry — which can add or cut production more quickly in response to price signals — might still change oil markets for good, putting a ceiling on oil prices closer to $50 a barrel than to OPEC’s preferred $100.
“We probably won’t see $100 a barrel for a while,” said Jeff Colgan, a political scientist at American University who has studied the evolution of global oil. “Fracking does put a bit of a ceiling on the price.”
An important question is what this will do to efforts to combat climate change.
Just as the surge in natural gas from shale sharply reduced carbon emissions from the nation’s power plants, the plunge in oil prices offers a sobering reminder of the power of markets over policy.
Consider, for instance, that the White House’s middle estimate of the social cost of carbon — which measures the broad damage of putting it into the air, a starting point for debates over a carbon tax — is only about $43.39 per ton of carbon dioxide. That comes to about $18.66 per barrel of crude oil, a trivial sum compared with the significant price drop in recent weeks.
Oil’s swoon could feed directly through to bigger sport utility vehicle sales and more driving. It could blunt the political impetus to tighten fuel emissions standards.
But oil’s gyrations also offer an opportunity. “Reducing our heavy dependence on oil will require us to pay forward the huge return on our 40-year shale investments through a similarly long-term effort to accelerate the transition to fuel cell, electric or some other vehicles,” Mr. Shellenberger said.
The falling price of oil offers an opportunity for the government to raise the cash to do so.
Rock-bottom oil offers a great opportunity to increase the gasoline tax without damaging Americans’ purchasing power. Many Republicans — even those most dismissive of climate change — realize that cheap oil creates an opportunity to raise gas taxes without angering voters.
If enough such Republicans could be found (a risky bet), the swoon in oil prices could be leveraged into a boon in tax revenue that the government could use to pick some of the winners that will help solve the problem.

Last edited by PaulS; 01-21-2015 at 09:54 AM..
PaulS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 10:18 AM   #27
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
The point in that the price is/has been coming down and eventually we'll all prob. drive hybrids or totally electric cars (or some other technology). So it will benefit all of us and hopefully will be a small part in breaking the back of OPEC.
I don't know that the price has been coming down steadily as more hybrids are sold. It was north of $4 very recently, then dropped like a rock.

Not sure what to make of your NYT article, as they are about as reliable and objective as Sean Hannity, probbaly less so IMHO. Gives all the credit for droppping oil prices to the US Government. This, from a paper that wants a huge US government.

Paul, I can probably find articles suggesting that - to the extent that the price droip is driven by frakking - that the drop happened in spite of Obama, not because of Obama. The democrats are adamantly opposed to exploiting oil and gas that's on federal land, and that policy has given enormous power, and unimaginable wealth, to places that aren't as hesitant to exploit their natural resources. Some of those places are not very nice places.

We cannot know what the environmental impact would have been to drilling that did not take place. We absolutely know what some of the impacts have been as a result of our resistance. Not many of the impacts are desirable.

I'm no expert on such things...but it seems to me that the liberals have turned their backs on the potentiul benefits of tapping into our own natural resources. This gives power and $$ to places that have no such reservations, and some of those places have become problematic for us. We apparently did this based on the false assumption that widely available alternative energies were around the corner, and tree-huggers have been saying that for 40 years. All in the name of global warming, which may or may not exist. Can't make it up...

Last edited by Jim in CT; 01-21-2015 at 10:32 AM..
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 10:22 AM   #28
PaulS
Registered User
iTrader: (0)
 
PaulS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,669
I meant the price of the hybrid cars.
PaulS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 10:41 AM   #29
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
From the article...

"the White House’s middle estimate of the social cost of carbon — which measures the broad damage of putting it into the air, a starting point for debates over a carbon tax — is only about $43.39 per ton of carbon dioxide. That comes to about $18.66 per barrel of crude oil, a trivial sum "

Crude oil is trading at what, $46.50 a barrel? And the author of your article is saying that a "carbon tax" of $18.66 per barrel - a tax of about 40% - is a "trivial sum"? A 40% tax to address a situation which may not exist?

If that's what he's saying, the author is bonkers. He'll also probably win the Nobel Prize.

Did I read that wrong? Sounds exactly like something our Bolshevik-In-Chief would support. God forbid we just let that savings get into the hands of the people...
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2015, 10:52 AM   #30
Jim in CT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
I meant the price of the hybrid cars.
What percentage of Americans drive hybrid or electric cars? Maybe 10%? How much can that possibly drive down our demand? And the price of oil isn't just based on US demand, it's based on worldwide demand. Is that lower than it was a few years ago?
Jim in CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Please use all necessary and proper safety precautions. STAY SAFE Striper Talk Forums
Copyright 1998-20012 Striped-Bass.com