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Old 11-14-2016, 11:52 PM   #1
detbuch
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Our Democracy

Anyone notice how often politicians refer to "our Democracy" in characterizing our country? Probably not. The notion that we are a democracy has been too well ingrained in our minds to give the characterization a second thought.

When was the last time you recall a politician referring to "our Republic"? Every now and then you might hear a "Conservative" mouthing those words. But never a Progressive.

I particularly noticed it when Hillary gave her concession speech. It actually grated my ears when she referred to this or "our Democracy." She did that three times in a short speech. She talked about our "country" seven times, and our "nation" twice. Never mentioned our "republic." She did end it with the obligatory asking God to bless the United States of America.

I wonder if for her the phrase "United States" is just some vague synonym for "our Democracy"? If to her, "United" is merely a nice, cooperative sounding euphemism meaning no more than us folks all uniting to make "our Democracy" a better stronger place, and if "States" are simply geographic areas that comprise delineated land areas of "our Democracy"?

It's as if, to a Progressive, the phrase "our Republic" is like garlic, or sunlight, or a wooden stake, or a cross to a vampire. As if saying it would suck the life out of a Progressive. Make her disappear.

And now that once again a Democrat has won the popular vote but lost the electoral vote, Eric Holder seriously proposes that we do away with the Electoral College. Sounds reasonable, right? Shouldn't the majority decide in a democracy? In "our Democracy"?

Didn't popular election of Senators provided by the Seventeenth Amendment, instead of them being appointed by State legislatures, make their elections more democratic? Doesn't that suit "our Democracy" better? Well . . . it helps to transform us more into a democracy rather than a republic. And, along with the 16th Amendment, it created a stronger central government at the expense of State governments.

Which of y'all would prefer us to be a democracy rather than a republic? Which would rather that the States become merely areas on the map without distinct separate powers--that we were all more efficiently and totally under a single central government, one State rather than 50 different ones?

Seriously. I would like to know how you think on this. You could make a very good case for it.

Last edited by detbuch; 11-15-2016 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:10 AM   #2
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pretty funny that prior to election night, dems and many others were cocksure that the electoral college was their friend, I recall Jim repeatedly stating that there was no path for Trump electorally...the democrat electoral blue wall insured her success...now that the chosen one(thanks to super delegates ironically) has lost despite the "fact" that Trump could never succeed electorally, we must change 200+ years of PRESIDENTIAL election precedence to accomodate the losers????

the real and simple question is how many would be calling for the end of the electoral college if hillary had won.....?






























ji
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Old 11-15-2016, 09:32 AM   #3
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pretty funny that prior to election night, dems and many others were cocksure that the electoral college was their friend, I recall Jim repeatedly stating that there was no path for Trump electorally...the democrat electoral blue wall insured her success...now that the chosen one(thanks to super delegates ironically) has lost despite the "fact" that Trump could never succeed electorally, we must change 200+ years of PRESIDENTIAL election precedence to accomodate the losers????

the real and simple question is how many would be calling for the end of the electoral college if hillary had won.....?


ji
I cannot imagine I will live long enough to be more wrong about anything. I thought he had a chance of a NC/OH/FL sweep, but that was the easy pickin's, the low hanging fruit. I didn't think he had a prayer in any place less red than those three states. I will start ignoring all polls other than Investors Business Daily, which I understand has been the most accurate for the last 3 elections.

"the real and simple question is how many would be calling for the end of the electoral college if Hillary had won.....?"

I think you already know the answer to that!

Scott, I have to tell you, I stayed up until 4:00 AM, watching MSNBC with toothpicks in my eyes, so as not to miss watching those smug jerks eat crow. It was beyond glorious.
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:45 PM   #4
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Glorious is an understatement. I had an early flight and was still up watching at 2 am. I sincerely enjoyed seeing all the hurt feelings in peoples faces at 4:30 am in Logan. Now they know how the last 8 years felt.
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:32 AM   #5
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Glorious is an understatement. I had an early flight and was still up watching at 2 am. I sincerely enjoyed seeing all the hurt feelings in peoples faces at 4:30 am in Logan. Now they know how the last 8 years felt.
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Not sure I understand that comment a week after the election seeing that Trump has yet to do anything but win. so your bar appears to be a line on the ground... if thats your only reason.. so Lets see what next 4 years brings and try using Facts over feelings as better indicator.. I doubt that will happen but one can hope
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tysdad115 View Post
Glorious is an understatement. I had an early flight and was still up watching at 2 am. I sincerely enjoyed seeing all the hurt feelings in peoples faces at 4:30 am in Logan. Now they know how the last 8 years felt.
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not sure about the inauguration celebration party
will be a doozy

having mr wimpy leave office or Trumpet take the OFFICE
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:42 AM   #7
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No wonder Progressives don't like the Pledge of Allegiance

The USA IS a Republic

let's see how much longer, at least 4 years now anyway

"A government that does not trust it's law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust" James Madison

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Regan
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:28 PM   #8
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Now they know how the last 8 years felt.
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I gave Obama the benefit of a doubt for the first four. Last four were pretty bad. To those who are squirming about the Trump win. Take it from us - it hurts for a while but eventually you'll move on, just live your life.

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Old 11-16-2016, 12:37 PM   #9
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Not sure I understand that comment a week after the election seeing that Trump has yet to do anything but win. so your bar appears to be a line on the ground... if thats your only reason.. so Lets see what next 4 years brings and try using Facts over feelings as better indicator.. I doubt that will happen but one can hope
I was replying to Jim's comment about being up until 4 watching the libs crumble..
"facts over feeling" I'm sure that's what all the protesters are using as a motto as they preach tolerance and acceptance.

Dude where's my sneakers?
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:34 PM   #10
Jim in CT
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Now they know how the last 8 years felt.
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Amen brother. Amen!!
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:42 PM   #11
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Not sure I understand that comment a week after the election :
What he meant is that conservatives were just as appalled 8 years ago, as liberals are right now. The difference is, as usual, we didn't riot.

Obama said that Republicans "could come along for the ride, but they have to get in the back" - very inclusive.

Obama said "Republicans gotta stop just hating all the time" - yes, all of us, never stop hating for one second

He used the IRS as a club against those who disagreed with him. He told Christian employers that they had to abandon their religious beliefs, in direct violation of the First Amendment. He nominated a racist lunatic to the Supreme Court, Sonya Sotomayor, who said a female Latina judge, because of her experience as a female and as a Latina, would make a superior judge to a white male (making her racist and sexist, by her own words).

We didn't riot, we didn't walk out of schools en masse. We walked off, licked our wounds, learned some lessons, and came roaring, roaring back.

Obama's election, as it turns out, might have been the best thing that ever happened to the GOP. He over-reached, big time, and his party is in tatters, thanks to him, annihilated at the national and state levels.

And in 2018, if you look at the Senate seats up for re-election, TEN are democrats in states that Trump won. IF he delivers (that's a big if), 2018 midterms could also be a windfall for the GOP.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:49 PM   #12
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I was discussing the EC with friends earlier and made the statement whit the EC, as it sits, is worth keeping. If it was purely a popular vote than San Jose, CA would have equal power wit the State of Rhode Island. Is it fair that a larger city should have more power than an entire state? I feel the amendment that granted a delegate count equal to the combined number of Senators and Reps in Congress was a pretty smart move.

If it was only the popular vote than many cities would have more power over large swaths of land and many states in our country. Surely that would be problematic. Large cities and large states have considerable more power as it is.

They system is overall good, needs tweaking to allow fairness and to discourage cheating, but it is a fair system.

Fortunately 2/3rds of the states would need to agree to change.

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Old 01-29-2017, 02:32 PM   #13
detbuch
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I was discussing the EC with friends earlier and made the statement whit the EC, as it sits, is worth keeping. If it was purely a popular vote than San Jose, CA would have equal power wit the State of Rhode Island. Is it fair that a larger city should have more power than an entire state? I feel the amendment that granted a delegate count equal to the combined number of Senators and Reps in Congress was a pretty smart move.

If it was only the popular vote than many cities would have more power over large swaths of land and many states in our country. Surely that would be problematic. Large cities and large states have considerable more power as it is.

That is the exact outcome desired by Progressive ideology-One State not 50 different ones. Getting rid of the Electoral College and electing by popular vote alone is a major step toward the rule of the central bureaucratic power desired by Progressives.

They system is overall good, needs tweaking to allow fairness and to discourage cheating, but it is a fair system.

Fortunately 2/3rds of the states would need to agree to change.
The Progressives know that, which is why they have chipped away, a bit at a time, at our constitutional foundation. They have used every political, social, psychological, and judicial means available to achieve their end goal.

I have asked here several times if the States were necessary, and never got a response avowing that they were. Psychologically, we may have arrived at a point where, if nudged to think about it, most people would not really consider it a necessity that we must have separate States. That they are just geographical markings established by past history, a sort of nice tradition filled with various fun competitions and characteristics and pride of place--but necessary?--maybe not. They certainly present some burdensome legal complications and problematic inefficiencies. Overall, many, if not most, might think it better, or may already think it is so, to have one codex, a uniform code of civil law for the entire country, rather than 50 different, even if they are very similar, codes.

It may not be that difficult, with a few more Progressive tweaks, to get 2/3rds of the States to agree to the one State solution--at least, at first step, if not by definition, by fact--de facto in spite of de jure.

That's exactly what so-called "judicial activism" does. That's how the courts have been used to promote the one State rather than the 50. Many Rulings, especially over the past 80 years, have led us closer and closer to the Progressive destination.

For instance, the Roe v Wade decision. Constitutionally, there is no provision for Federal Government imposition of abortion law on the individual States. Constitutionally, de jure, the matter should be left to the different States, but the Court, by its own whim (so-called "interpretation") gave the jurisdiction to the One State, the Federal Government. The court, de facto, further advanced the reality of a "de jure" State rather than the separate 50.

The coming Democrat Senator's inquisition of Trump's Supreme Court nominees will reveal their desire to appoint Judges who will
de facto, by their decisions, push us further into the unitary, totally centralized, State--"our Democracy" rather than our Republic.

Last edited by detbuch; 01-29-2017 at 03:39 PM..
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