Debate number two

[spence]

This one was a little more interesting, although I didn't really see the gloves come off either side.

Overall I thought Obama offered more substance in responding to the questions. McCain was focused more on talking points.

Obama was more steady, and McCain seemed to be a bit more shifting.

What's perhaps most interesting as noted by a newsmaker, is that McCain didn't offer any of the acid that the campaign has had Palin recite the past week. As if he was embarrased by it.

Sniper, if Ayers and Wright are such huge character issues, why not bring them up now???

-spence

[Nebe]

McCain Fail again.

[Slipknot]

my take =

Obama did not answer the questions, he just did not answer them, any of the simple questions just skirted around them.

McCain = same stuff he's been saying trying to drive it in to people, and defending the accusations from Obama


but I missed the beginning, I was still working

[afterhours]

i've trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they both suck...this may be the first election that i abstain from voting.

[striperman36]

Well, my friends, I did write a letter several years ago complaining that this could happen to Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.
My opponent, did nothing.

Yet neither of them sponsored any legislation to cure it.

They are both rich egotistical pansies.

I'll vote but I can't say with conscience.

[PaulS]

Its a lot harder to insult or lie about someone when their 10 feet away from you and can call you on it.

I was suprised to hear Mccain refer to Obama as "that one". What could cause such an honorable person to fall so far?

[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I was suprised to hear Mccain refer to Obama as "that one". What could cause such an honorable person to fall so far?

Yea, that was pretty ugly. Sounded like something his advisors dreamed up but didn't actually expect him to use.

Striperman, love the new avatar

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Obama is always a "I did" - I wrote a letter, I told so and so. Kind of goes with the ego criticism.
But there is never any result of his action. I thought it was a toss up overall, but Obama did very good in the begginning and made sense to me on a few points.

Also PaulS, the Wright and Ayers stuff is not a "lie" Whats a lie is that Obamas campaign manager said Obama did not know his past, thats a lie. I think its valid to address the people Obama has associated with. Pretty scary idealists. I dont think it made sense to bring up in the context of the debate, there are more pressing things to consider.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Obama is always a "I did" - I wrote a letter, I told so and so. Kind of goes with the ego criticism.
But there is never any result of his action. I thought it was a toss up overall, but Obama did very good in the begginning and made sense to me on a few points.

Also PaulS, the Wright and Ayers stuff is not a "lie" Whats a lie is that Obamas campaign manager said Obama did not know his past, thats a lie. I think its valid to address the people Obama has associated with. Pretty scary idealists. I dont think it made sense to bring up in the context of the debate, there are more pressing things to consider.

If Ayers isn't a lie then lets drag out McCain using his father's status to get better treatment as a POW.

Other than hearing the words "terrorist" and "radical" do you even know who Ayers is?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Also PaulS, the Wright and Ayers stuff is not a "lie" Whats a lie is that Obamas campaign manager said Obama did not know his past, thats a lie. I think its valid to address the people Obama has associated with. Pretty scary idealists. I dont think it made sense to bring up in the context of the debate, there are more pressing things to consider.

Saying that Obama was "palling" around with terrorists is a lie.

I think the relationship with Wright is far more suspect than Ayers to be honest. Unfortunately McCain already took Wright off of the table for the most part.

The entire Ayers argument is a joke. Yes, Obama has tried to minimize his exposure (like duh) but I've never seen anything that indicates the relationship went beyond the good (education for kids) and only flirted with sponsorship (Ayers supporting Obama for the IL sentate). Yes he was a violent 60's radical (in the 60's mind you) but it would appear as though he has reformed himself and has worked hard for education issues and to be a respected professor. The board that Obama chaired had several local prominent republicans on it as well.

One thing is for sure, that using a 60's relic to bring attention to Obama's Muslim heritage and somehow associate him with modern day radical Islamism...is certainly appaling.

The video clips of Palin's events with the crowd shouting "terrorist" and "kill him" are surreal to say the least. And she just stands there and smiles? The entire "he's not like us" argument is code speech, and very dangerous.

-spence

[likwid]

Originally Posted by spence

Yes he was a violent 60's radical (in the 60's mind you) but it would appear as though he has reformed himself and has worked hard for education issues and to be a respected professor.

The most he was ever connected with was blowing up.... wait for it...


wait for it....


A STATUE

Oh, and helping bust Timothy Leary out of jail.

OH THE HUGE MANATEE

The issue I have with bringing up Ayers is it was such a different time.
So many people connected to so many things, what was going on, how things were handled.

Protesters protested.
People spoke out.

People did ALOT of crazy crap that most likely will never happen again on that scale.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea, that was pretty ugly. Sounded like something his advisors dreamed up but didn't actually expect him to use.

Striperman, love the new avatar

-spence

Thufir Hawat is a geek idol

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by likwid

If Ayers isn't a lie then lets drag out McCain using his father's status to get better treatment as a POW.

Other than hearing the words "terrorist" and "radical" do you even know who Ayers is?

"McCain using his father's status to get better treatment as a POW" are you farkked? When the No. Vietnamese figured out his daddy was a high-ranking admiral, they beat & tortured him less. Real noble people. Then they offered early release, which Mccain refused, so they tortured him more.

Ding, dong - I get it. So, this must mean that Ayers is a lie, eh? So the "statue" bombing was all? Nothing to do with the people that died when they were building anti-people bombs with NAILS inside? Granted, the people that died were Ayer's friends and cohorts. Let's be relieved they died in product development + Q.A. rather than on the people they INTENDED to kill.

Originally Posted by likwid

The most he was ever connected with was blowing up.... wait for it...


wait for it....


A STATUE

Oh, and helping bust Timothy Leary out of jail.

OH THE HUGE MANATEE

The issue I have with bringing up Ayers is it was such a different time.
So many people connected to so many things, what was going on, how things were handled.

Protesters protested.
People spoke out.

People did ALOT of crazy crap that most likely will never happen again on that scale.

Ahhh, so that makes it OK.

[RIJIMMY]

Thanks John, saved me the reply.

Likwid, I can only tell you how I feel personally. I knew some shady characters growing up, kids that were involved in things I didnt believe in. I hung with a pretty wild crowd so these people were pretty out there. i chose not to hang around with people because they werent what I was about, sometimes at the expense of being a wimp in my friends eyes.
Obama, TO ME, as a reflection of his character has associated with people that are reprehensible. I do know what Ayers did and stand for, I actually did a presentation in High School on the Weather Underground, a POSITIVE, presentation. But now that I have matured I see the flaw in this behavior. Obama should have as well and should have avoided Ayers and Wright.
I do not think "pal around" is beyond any of the stretchs either candidate is throwing out there on the issues.

[striperman36]

McCain 'palled around' with Friggin Keating, another wallet grabber of the deregulation kind.

Which is worse enemy of the people an anarchist or one that has the laws bent to their benefit so they can profit off of the unwashed masses?

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I knew some shady characters growing up, kids that were involved in things I didnt believe in. I hung with a pretty wild crowd so these people were pretty out there. i chose not to hang around with people because they werent what I was about, sometimes at the expense of being a wimp in my friends eyes.

Jimmy, Obama only associated with Ayers decades after this behavior!

Your analogy is moot!

-spence

[Nebe]

Originally Posted by spence

Jimmy, Obama only associated with Ayers decades after this behavior!

Your analogy is moot!

-spence

yes Moot and its one of the few pieces of the puzzzle that the GOP can use against Obama.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Can you guys please PM me you Social Security numbers....before I associate with you anymore I will need to run a Background Check.

I'm pretty sure a few of you are Un-savory

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Jimmy, Obama only associated with Ayers decades after this behavior!

Your analogy is moot!

-spence

No its not, its a judgement call. Obama should have shown better judgement. He is a politician and must understand the implications of his actions and associations.

[Nebe]

and flying your family to the bahamas 5 times on a private jet that is owned by a special interest group is not bad judgment?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Nebe

and flying your family to the bahamas 5 times on a private jet that is owned by a special interest group is not bad judgment?

Totally farking bad judgement. Should have used the Bud Airship instead.
That person is totally Mr. DeRegulation. Send him to Afghanistan to talk to Osama, without pre-conditions.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

No its not, its a judgement call. Obama should have shown better judgement. He is a politician and must understand the implications of his actions and associations.

Then explain to me, if this is so important, why Ayers wasn't seen as a person of great contraversy within the city of Chigago up until now?

He seems to actually have been quite respected in the community for his work and dedication.

Jimmy, you're being punked by a Karl Rove strawman.

-spence

[Nebe]

this whole country has been punked for the last 8 years spence.

[justplugit]

Imho, pretty much a tie.

I think the McCaine proposal to use 300 billion, if it is taken from the 700 billion rescue plan,
to reduce real estate values to true values by paying the difference in troubled mortgages to equalize the market is worth looking at.

When it comes to Obama's associations with Ayers, Rev. Wrigth, Father Flager and other questionables,
i like the old addage, "birds of a feather flock together."

[fishsmith]

Originally Posted by justplugit

I think the McCaine proposal to use 300 billion, if it is taken from the 700 billion rescue plan,
to reduce real estate values to true values by paying the difference in troubled mortgages to equalize the market is worth looking at.

I know something has to be done, but like a fool I've been paying my mortgage payments in full and on time. It burns me up to know some of those who haven't , will get a new loan and reduced monthly payment.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Then explain to me, if this is so important, why Ayers wasn't seen as a person of great contraversy within the city of Chigago up until now?

He seems to actually have been quite respected in the community for his work and dedication.

Jimmy, you're being punked by a Karl Rove strawman.

-spence

Come on, he is a topic becuase of Obamas association with hi. And I punk for no one, I make up my own opinions on the importance of the association.

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Come on, he is a topic becuase of Obamas association with hi. And I punk for no one, I make up my own opinions on the importance of the association.

Up until they GOP decided they could use him to smear Obama, he wasn't seen as a contraversial figure in Chicago...he was a pretty mainstream educational professor.

Do you think parents were letting their kids be educated by a terrorist?

What a joke.

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by fishsmith

I know something has to be done, but like a fool I've been paying my mortgage payments in full and on time. It burns me up to know some of those who haven't , will get a new loan and reduced monthly payment.

I know FS, i;ve done the same and feel the same way, but i'd like to see some of that money used to help our citizens and by doing so help stabilize the real estate market.

I think it's worth looking into.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

...he was a pretty mainstream educational professor.


-spence

Geez, a guy who was tied to trying to bomb our own country,
and has said he wasn't sorry and wished he had done more becomes a MAINSTREAM educational professor?

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Geez, a guy who was tied to trying to bomb our own country,
and has said he wasn't sorry and wished he had done more becomes a MAINSTREAM educational professor?

Yes, he's currently a "Distinguished Professor" at the University of Chicago and seen as an expert on many social issues. Sounds pretty mainstream to me.

-spence