Gamefish Status???

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Bush moving to gamefish status for striped bass, red drum
BY SUSAN WEST | SENTINEL STAFF




Gamefish status could be coming for striped bass and red drum, according to Sean McKeon, president of the North Carolina Fisheries Association, a trade group for the state's commercial fishing industry.

"We received confirmation Friday morning that President Bush plans to either issue an executive order designating the two species gamefish or to direct fishery management councils to do so," said McKeon.

The legal designation would place the species off-limits to commercial fishermen, removing the fish from the marketplace.

"This action would be a total circumvention of the fisheries management process established by Congress," said McKeon.

He said that commercial fishermen have shouldered harvest restrictions for both species and have anticipated sharing in less stringent regulations as the stocks have grown healthier.

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission officially declared striped bass recovered in 1995. Recreational fishermen harvested 81 percent of the 36.47 million pound Atlantic harvest in 2006.

The North Carolina Division of Marine Fisheries lists the red drum stock as recovering. In 2006, North Carolina anglers harvested 216,115 pounds and commercial fishermen landed 168,489 pounds.


"There's no doubt that the President intends to take this action at the request of the CCA (Coastal Conservation Association)," said McKeon.

The CCA, an organization of sportfishermen and associated industries, began in Texas in 1977 with a campaign to make red drum, more commonly called redfish along the Gulf of Mexico, and speckled trout gamefish.

The group has secured gamefish designations in Texas, Alabama, South Carolina, Florida, Louisiana and other states.

Josh Bowlen, legislative director for Rep. Walter B. Jones, told the Sentinel Monday that Jones believes the President plans to send a strong statement in support of strict conservation actions to the regional management councils, the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission, and state fishery agencies as early as next week.

"Congressman Jones has asked folks within the administration to keep in mind that more than one sector depends on access to these species and that livelihoods are at stake," said Bowlen.

Katie Hallaway, communications director for Senator Elizabeth Dole, said Dole has expressed concern to the White House about the negative impact to North Carolina's commercial fishermen and small businesses.

"We must work to ensure that fish populations, like red drum and striped bass, remain strong. However, our commercial fishermen should not solely bear the responsibility of maintaining healthy fish stocks in the Atlantic," said Senator Richard Burr.

Outer Banks commercial fishermen said gamefish designations don't impact just commercial fishermen.

"Gamefish status will deny access to this public trust resource to people who want to eat striped bass or red drum but don't have either the time or the money or the desire to go recreational fishing," said Rob West of Buxton.

[DZ]

Wow! That would be some news.

DZ

[JohnR]

Interesting - Not sure how much I support that, being that I'm less concerned about Game fish status than I am about the status of the fish they eat...

[Brother Brian]

Not sure how much I support that, being that I'm less concerned about Game fish status than I am about the status of the fish they eat...

Amen. First should be Game fish status for Bunker.....

[Flaptail]

Thats what happens when you fish in Maine too much, you get that "Stripers Forever" view of life by osmosis.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Flaptail

Thats what happens when you fish in Maine too much, you get that "Stripers Forever" view of life by osmosis.

Yup...

forget gamefish status.
Lets just go back to 1fish 36" coast wide. Enough of this 28" crap.
I'm worried about the stock right now. something ain't right...

[JFigliuolo]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Yup...
...
I'm worried about the stock right now. something ain't right...

I've been quietly singing that song for a year or two now.

[likwid]

Queue comm flip outs.

Marlin: gamefish. can still consume.
Tarpon: gamefish. can still consume.
Hmmm

[piemma]

Originally Posted by likwid

Queue comm flip outs.

Marlin: gamefish. can still consume.
Tarpon: gamefish. can still consume.
Hmmm

Game fish status doesn't indicate you cannot eat what you catch. It just means they won't be selling the catch. Not a huge problem in Mass or RI but a substantial problem in VA and south

[BasicPatrick]

The reality of this pending announcement is that this is a "feeel good" Executive Order at best and in the end, may end up being a very bad thing.

For those interested in the question, What does this mean, think about the following.

The definition of "game fish staus" being used in this order is "no sale". The Presidential order will will make S-B & Red Drum "game fish" in federal waters effectively prohibiting "commercial" fishing for S-B in federal waters. Considering that there is already a "regulation" that prohibits all fishing for S-B in federal waters, the executive Order alone will change nothing.

However, I predict the "real agenda" of this Executive Order will turn into a very bad thing. Executive Orders carry a lot of weight in the Federal Government. This will most likely be read by fisheries managers as a buffer, ending the arguement that if the EEZ is open for Recs it should be open for commercials. That will allow managers to open Federal Waters (EEZ) to recreational fishing for S-B. If the EEZ is opened for S-B recreational fishing, the recreational harvest will increase and we will be on our way to overfishing.

I see this as yet another move by those revisionist historians that blame the collapse of S-B on the commercials to make an allocation grab for recreational fishing and forget that we were a part of the collapse. The recreational fishery for S-B must retain the major protection of a closed EEZ so that we may be protected from ourselves. I hope that this does not happen but I am told the Executive Order is a done deal. S-B are successfully rebuilt and to eliminate the largest tool we have to protect the stock makes no sense. I agree we should concentrate of increasing forage, but this has nothing to do with that other and more major issue.

[Clogston29]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

However, I predict the "real agenda" of this Executive Order will turn into a very bad thing. Executive Orders carry a lot of weight in the Federal Government. This will most likely be read by fisheries managers as a buffer, ending the arguement that if the EEZ is open for Recs it should be open for commercials. That will allow them to open Federal Waters (EEZ) to recreational fishing for S-B. If the EEZ is opened for S-B recreational fishing, the recreational harvest will increase and we will be on our way to overfishing.

How will opening the EEZ to recs increase the harvest? Won't the same amount of people continue to harvest the same number of fish, now just over a larger area? If size and creel limits remain the same, it seams to me that the harvest should remain the same (decrease when the fact that there will be no more commercial harvest is considered). Am I missing something

[BasicPatrick]

A boat (private or charter) goes to Stellwagen Bank for tuna or cod...after they get their fish they now can take a S-B limit as well.

There is currently no legal commercial fishiing in the EEZ.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Clogston29

How will opening the EEZ to recs increase the harvest? Won't the same amount of people continue to harvest the same number of fish, now just over a larger area? If size and creel limits remain the same, it seams to me that the harvest should remain the same (decrease when the fact that there will be no more commercial harvest is considered). Am I missing something

or the comms. quota of the catch could become available to recs (I know there is some concern that that is the agenda of those pushing for game fish status) . I don't care who is catching, just how many are getting taken. Ending the commercial harvest wouldn't have near as big an effect on the stocks as going to 1 fish for recs would.

Anyone have a scientific basis for 36"'s? Not arguing, I am just curious where that number originally came from. Why not 40"? Why not 1 between 18 and 27" like they do from drum in NC. I think I am gonna find a fisheries course that looks at these issues cause I know that I really don't have any scientific basis for my opinions...

[Nebe]

this would be great!! take the friggin price of the fish's head please.

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by zimmy

or the comms. quota of the catch could become available to recs (I know there is some concern that that is the agenda of those pushing for game fish status) . I don't care who is catching, just how many are getting taken. Ending the commercial harvest wouldn't have near as big an effect on the stocks as going to 1 fish for recs would.

The Executive Order will have NO IMPACT on how many S-B are caught in the commercial catch as there is already a "regulation" that stops commercial fishing for S-B in the EEZ. It would strengthen that regulation.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

The Executive Order will have NO IMPACT on how many S-B are caught in the commercial catch as there is already a "regulation" that stops commercial fishing for S-B in the EEZ. It would strengthen that regulation.

That's not at all true. While it may not have an effect on the EZZ, what about the Coast, Narragansett Bay, the Cape Cod Canal, the Outer beaches, Cape Cod Bay, buzzards bay, etc. It's all open to commercial rod and reel S-B fishing. If the quota is 3 million pounds in Mass and S-B get game status, then that's 3 million pounds that don't get caught and sold in the commercial market.

Am I missing something here????

[GonnaCatchABig1]

"Gamefish status will deny access to this public trust resource to people who want to eat striped bass or red drum but don't have either the time or the money or the desire to go recreational fishing," said Rob West of Buxton.

uh oh.. just think of all the morons that will be out trying to catch a meal now. you know the ones.. the guys who think you just caught all the frozen bunker.

hopefully they will just give up on eating striper. but ya know about 15% of them will attempt it. get a ready for a flood of guys with no fishing etiquette.


also.. hope they have some even more strict anti-poaching plans in the works. cause now theres gonna be an increased black market for stripers.

the rest of the issue i know nothing about. but seems like it would increase stock. but only by fractions if at all. still want either a slot or higher limits and one fish per person per day.

[riverrat2]

1 a 36 for recs, leave the mass comm season the way it is, a controlled quota which is quite small compared by overall recs kills in mass alone. And whats up with everyone complaining about pogie regs, in case anyone hasn't noticed there are more pogies around right now than there has been in a long time.

[RIJIMMY]

I'm just impressed we got this many replies without any Bush bashing!

I'm with Piemma on this, sounds like a good thing to me, but I am not up to speed on these issues as much as some, I dont even know what the EEZ is?

[JoeP]

Excellent! I think we need this mostly to stop the mid-atlantic states' slaughter. Bryan & I've been saying since last year that something's wrong with the stock.

See - all you Bush bashers can finally give him some credit.


However - as Bryan said we do need to go back to the 36"/1 fish limit as well. Recreational fishermen need to share in the conservation effort.

[Clammer]

I,ve been saying for the last few years that the stock is in trouble >>>>>>>>>> just stopping commercial fishing is not the answer / in the total take / the largest percentage of fish caught /taken >.out by rec.

I,d love to see a no size/ no keep status / that way /basically catch & release & that would knock a ton of pressure off the bass / never mind us ;;;

make it simple // no keep >>>>>>>> soooooooo if charlie S/h gets caught with a bass >>>>>>> he has no defense ;;;;


unfortuneitly /they will find a way to f$%^&*( this up //


For some this has been a great exceptional year // but in all total >>> it is much less than last & last was less than the year before ;;;

we.ll see ><><><

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by piemma

That's not at all true. While it may not have an effect on the EZZ, what about the Coast, Narragansett Bay, the Cape Cod Canal, the Outer beaches, Cape Cod Bay, buzzards bay, etc. It's all open to commercial rod and reel S-B fishing. If the quota is 3 million pounds in Mass and S-B get game status, then that's 3 million pounds that don't get caught and sold in the commercial market.

Am I missing something here????

Yes, I think you are missing the point. the Executive Order has nothing to do with State Waters or waters inside three miles. Commercial fishing in all of the places you mention will NOT BE AFFECTED!!!!!!

Currently/right now/today/in 2007 there is/was no Striped Bass fishing of any kind in FEDERAL WATERS (aka EEZ or ouside the three mile line). To be clear, in 2007 there was no commercial or recreational S-B legally caught in Federal waters. This is because Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission has a regulation that prohibits ALL Striper fishing in Federal waters.

This new Executive Order will permanently prohibit commercial fishing of Striped Bass only in Federal Waters. In other words the President is going to issue an order that will change nothing. Next year, after the executive order, the same commercial fishery will exist in the same waters it did today. The quotas will be managed the same, nothing is going to change.

What we fear is that by prohibiting only commercial fishing, the order will be interpreted as "not prohibiting" recreational fishing for S-B inn Federal Waters and will open a door to those that want to end the many years these fish that reside in federal waters have enjoyed.



This

[JoeP]

I read some more. It seems Patrick's right - that is all the Executive Order has the power to do. Useless.

Apparently CCA is simply hoping this FEderal move will "influence" the States to do the same. Never will happen.

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Yes, I think you are missing the point. the Executive Order has nothing to do with State Waters or waters inside three miles. Commercial fishing in all of the places you mention will NOT BE AFFECTED!!!!!!

Currently/right now/today/in 2007 there is/was no Striped Bass fishing of any kind in FEDERAL WATERS (aka EEZ or ouside the three mile line). To be clear, in 2007 there was no commercial or recreational S-B legally caught in Federal waters. This is because Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission has a regulation that prohibits ALL Striper fishing in Federal waters.

This new Executive Order will permanently prohibit commercial fishing of Striped Bass only in Federal Waters. In other words the President is going to issue an order that will change nothing. Next year, after the executive order, the same commercial fishery will exist in the same waters it did today. The quotas will be managed the same, nothing is going to change.

What we fear is that by prohibiting only commercial fishing, the order will be interpreted as "not prohibiting" recreational fishing for S-B inn Federal Waters and will open a door to those that want to end the many years these fish that reside in federal waters have enjoyed.



This

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Apparently CCA is simply hoping this FEderal move will "influence" the States to do the same. Never will happen.

I think CCA is hoping ASMFC will open up the EEZ for recreational fishing. They have been in favor of opening the EEZ for some time.

That would be bad

[Peter D]

I think CCA is hoping ASMFC will open up the EEZ for recreational fishing.

CCA is more interested in rec fishing than reducing total SB mortality. The recs are responsible for most of the killing. It's a rec supported money grab by special interests who earn their $ from the rec industry.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by Brother Brian

Amen. First should be Game fish status for Bunker.....

ditto .. feed the fish ..

[GonnaCatchABig1]

from the above.. i know agree, wow thats dumb..
but..

what is the importance of the EEZ? other than providing a place for fish to unknowingly relax?

if it's nothing more than a place that fish are.. who cares if it's open to fishing? i could see if it was for mating or something more significant than a fish hang out. but if it's not what would the impact really be?

it's not like the shore guys will be able to get to it. and if ya have a boat, chances are you are filling the 2 fish limits just about every day ya go out any way. they would just be filled there instead of in the areas currently fished.. which in turn would RELIEVE pressure on the fish in the areas that can be fished now. so in fact if it was open, the production of the current areas would go up. cause fishermen would be spread out even further.. the only problem i could see would be policing an even larger area.. and people high-grading. but if they are law breakers they will break the law regardless of where they fish. and probably already fish the EEZ anyway.

like i said, i know nothing about the EEZ. and the above is assuming it's just a productive place for large fish.

of course if it a place for large numbers of huge fish.. then a slot limit should be imposed if it's open. cause if the last statement is true, then i would assume the fear is over fishing of mega bass who produce more eggs.

but please some one correct me and explain the importance of the EEZ to the fish.

[piemma]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Yes, I think you are missing the point. the Executive Order has nothing to do with State Waters or waters inside three miles. Commercial fishing in all of the places you mention will NOT BE AFFECTED!!!!!!

Currently/right now/today/in 2007 there is/was no Striped Bass fishing of any kind in FEDERAL WATERS (aka EEZ or ouside the three mile line). To be clear, in 2007 there was no commercial or recreational S-B legally caught in Federal waters. This is because Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission has a regulation that prohibits ALL Striper fishing in Federal waters.

This new Executive Order will permanently prohibit commercial fishing of Striped Bass only in Federal Waters. In other words the President is going to issue an order that will change nothing. Next year, after the executive order, the same commercial fishery will exist in the same waters it did today. The quotas will be managed the same, nothing is going to change.

What we fear is that by prohibiting only commercial fishing, the order will be interpreted as "not prohibiting" recreational fishing for S-B inn Federal Waters and will open a door to those that want to end the many years these fish that reside in federal waters have enjoyed.



This

I stand corrected. i didn't realize the EO would have no effect on state waters.

[Nebe]

recreational catch/mortality rates dwarf commercial catches. WE are overfishing the striped bass. End commercial fishing, install a 1 fish slot plus a 50 plus trophy fish and protect the bunker and herring. While they're t it, lift the protection of the dogfish..

[GonnaCatchABig1]

Originally Posted by Nebe

, install a 1 fish slot plus a 50 plus trophy fish

i was gonna suggest this yesterday but figured it was to weird of a regulation. i was thinkin 26 to 32 and then 50 plus. i would like 20 to 28. but fear that would be to low and people would be almost guaranteed a take home every day. at least 26 to 32 is on the higher end of smaller fish.